Nisha by Glomar - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Brixham 'Mumble-Bee'

[Glomar]

I appreciate all the love everyone! 

I definitely nicked the stem right off! really solid advice on the masking tape so wrapping it up as we speak! 

I am not really able to get the planks to stay in the bow rabbet so, they are actually overlapping it. I am not sure if I beveled the first level of planks to much or it is not cut deep enough- is that a concern at all? 

@AJohnson @Craigie65 I would love to get you advice on how to best paint this! I am REALLY bad at hand painting and have been flirting with the idea of getting a cheap airbrush but have literally no experience with that at all either. I really love the clean lines of the ship so would love to try and get a really solid paint job on her. 

 

[Andyrew]

If you are not sure about Airbrushing you could use spray paint cans, not sure where you are in the world but here in the UK you can get spray paints from DIY stores or Car Spares stores.

[AJohnson]

Hi, regarding painting the key is preparation before the final paint coats. Rubbing down sanding, filling and then a primer coat and repeat. I did that process several times as there is nothing like a layer of paint to draw attention to surface imperfections. 😨

For the primer a rattle can is fine if used carefully, more thin coats than a single heavy coat. If the undercoat is good then brush painted top coat is perfectly doable. Just use good quality artist brushes, flat brushes not pointed. I personally use enamel paints mostly but also acrylics from brands like Caldercraft. Again don’t try and cover in one if brush painting, a few thin coats are better, but obviously this takes patience. If you are nervous of doing this on your Nisha, build a mock section using scrap planks (sanding, filling and priming it as the model) and practice on that first.

Good luck!  There is a painting hints and tips section on MSW. 

[AJohnson]

9 minutes ago, Andyrew said:

If you are not sure about Airbrushing you could use spray paint cans, not sure where you are in the world but here in the UK you can get spray paints from DIY stores or Car Spares stores.

Yep, I get my primer and undercoating rattle cans from DIY or Car service places. 

[Craigie65]

I am lucky enough to have an airbrush and compressor from my aircraft and armour modelling days.  A great investment and was heavily used. The thing is, it is seldom needed for this hobby, Nisha was only the second time I have used it for a hull. The previous time was nearly a decade ago.  I do use it occasionally for brass items when chemical blackening fails (which is often for me!).

 

If you do go down the airbrush route, then gravity fed dual action is my gun of choice.  I have tried the siphon fed version and found it too cumbersome.  You will also need to get the right consistency of you chosen paint, I find even paints designed for airbrushing can need thinning.

 

You need to ask yourself if the investment will be worth it.

 

So I guess I would follow the Andrews’ advice and paint by hand.  I find acrylics easier to brush, but that is probably just me, and to clean up after.  

 

The clean lines are all about good masking and thin coats - no heavy build up.  I normally use tamiya’s masking tape, but lately have been using the blue stuff Vanguard is selling.  The manual shows the painting sequence in good detail.  

 

 

[Glomar]

I got the second layer of planking done but with mixed results 

I tried to get clever on the bottom half by using drop planks; one side came out pretty well, the other not so much. There is a little chip that I need to figure out how to remedy. More glaring though are these dark lines between the bottom half of the planks that I am not entirely sure they are from

@AJohnson @Craigie65 Any recommendations on how to clean it up a bit? 

  

[Craigie65]

Well done in getting this far! Remember this is your first build.

All our models have a good side 😀. 

 

I think most of those gaps will be below the waterline and therefore painted over. So yo can fill the gaps - acrylic wood filler will be you friend here.  You can thin it a little with water to make it easier to get into the gaps.  Once dry a sand will left you see what bits you missed - and you will, we all do!

So fill and sand again to get it smooth for a coat of paint.

 

If you struggle to fit that little chip, then just fill it, it is definitely below the waterline.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Craigie65

[James H]

Just sand and fill, sand and fill. Most of this is under paint anyway and if you're unhappy with anything above paint areas, you can always extend the scheme a little. 

 

That's not looking too bad at all. Use your fingers to feel for imperfections, then sand as you feel anything. 

[Glomar]

Thanks @James H and @Craigie65! This has very much turned into a group build with all the help you all are providing so I am glad to say we are getting there! 

Whats weird is that the blackish parts that look like gaps are what I think are dried wood glue.
1) Should I try and dig it out a little bit to get some filler in it?

2) Just because I am neurotic- is it possible to over sand? At what point do you all stop? I notice on the first layer or planks and now on this one, it is that gaps start appearing/becoming more noticeable when sanding. Is that normal or am I being too aggressive? 
3) For that chip, would you carve it out and replace it with another piece or is it best to just fill it. 

Also kind of random, but how do you feel about the garboards? I am not sure if I am getting them right and they seem a little janky to me but I am not the best judge. 

One thing I did play around with this morning is adding stealers in the stern. It is a little crude and needs to be sanded but I had fun with it 

[Peanut6]

Glomar, you may want to consider saving some sawdust from your hull sanding.  I've read that mixing sawdust (of the same wood) with a diluted PVA solution and working it into the gaps works for many builders.  I tried it on my planking, in a test prior to deconstruction, and I wasn't too pleased with the results.  I wasn't going to paint my hull and there was just enough PVA exposed that things looked blotchy when applied stain.  I can't see how this method works better than wood filler especially if it will be painted, but to each their own.  I just read a build log where the shipwright took a lightly different approach using the same materials.  He very carefully and sparingly filled the gaps with PVA and then pushed/worked sawdust into the gap until he had (what I'll call) a sawdust ant hill.  He then came back after it had dried and carefully sanded it down.  His results were very impressive and sure seemed to work for him.  He wasn't going to paint his hull either and I can see how this method could work better because, in theory, you would have a layer of of like wood sawdust that could take a stain rather than a combination of PVA and sawdust.  Again, to each their own and I'm just sharing some information that I've come across.

[Craigie65]

HI Glomar,

Good to read that you are enjoying the build - that is more than half the battle.

I think you said you were going to paint the hull. As @James H said fill, sand, repeat.  The first light coat of paint will show all the imperfections, so fill, sand repeat!  I am sure this is the definition of insanity, but that is this wonderful hobby for you! 

 

Keep going!

[Glomar]

@Craigie65 looking into airbrushes and would love to get your thoughts!
do you have any recommendations for airbrush that you like?

Did you find there was a steep learning curve at all? 
Is clean-up or maintenance intensive at all? 
Do you use a spray both? 

With the stain, did you stain all the planks or just the ones that you left unpainted? 

My last couple paint jobs with a brush did not have the best results so I am starting to look into airbrushing but am not sure if it is the easy solution that I might be thinking it is.
 

[Glomar]

On 5/14/2022 at 7:17 PM, Peanut6 said:

Glomar, you may want to consider saving some sawdust from your hull sanding.  I've read that mixing sawdust (of the same wood) with a diluted PVA solution and working it into the gaps works for many builders.  I tried it on my planking, in a test prior to deconstruction, and I wasn't too pleased with the results.  I wasn't going to paint my hull and there was just enough PVA exposed that things looked blotchy when applied stain.  I can't see how this method works better than wood filler especially if it will be painted, but to each their own.  I just read a build log where the shipwright took a lightly different approach using the same materials.  He very carefully and sparingly filled the gaps with PVA and then pushed/worked sawdust into the gap until he had (what I'll call) a sawdust ant hill.  He then came back after it had dried and carefully sanded it down.  His results were very impressive and sure seemed to work for him.  He wasn't going to paint his hull either and I can see how this method could work better because, in theory, you would have a layer of of like wood sawdust that could take a stain rather than a combination of PVA and sawdust.  Again, to each their own and I'm just sharing some information that I've come across.

@Peanut6 Thanks for for flagging this! Do you know which build log you saw this on? I did a similar thing trying to combine diluted PVA with sawdust but also got less than desirable results. Would be interested in trying this again though! 

[Peanut6]

Glomar, I hope this gets you there  sawdust filler  if not, it is the Scottish Maid build by JesseLee, post #119.  As a whole, his build log is remarkable and has numerous solutions to all kinds of problems many of us have come across.  Worth a read even if you're not interested in the Scottish Maid.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Peanut6
typo

[Craigie65]

Hi Glomar,

It has been a long time since I researched airbrushes.  There are a lot of excellent brands out there.  I have an Iwata HP-C plus, but I would recommend you do a search here. I am sure there have been a few threads on which airbrushes people recommend. You can compare and match to your budget. You will need a compressor too.

 

Like any new kit you need to practise first.  To be fair you are using the airbrush to “colour in”, there are no complicated camouflage patterns here!

Clean up is not too difficult - I use Vallejo airbrush cleaner between colours.  At the end of each session you will need to clean the brush throughly- I use a solvent based cleaner and cleaning brushes.

 

I don’t have a spray booth - I use an old box and wear a mask, not the coverings we have been using for covid but a proper painting/vapour respirator.  The latter is a must if yo want to protect your lungs!

 

Not sure of your point on the stain.  I use a matt varnish.

 

[Glomar]

@Craigie65 As always, thank you for the amazing overview! 

For your Nisha, what brand/colors did you use?

I see ALOT of tips about airbrushing on plastic models but not some many for wood models. Is spraying pretty similar or are there different considerations?  

If I am not being to much of a pain, would you mind sharing the steps you used for painting (primer/thinning/spraying/top coat etc?) Do you spray on the matt varnish? 

Finally this is probably bordering on stupid question territory but do wood filler and wood sealers accomplish the same thing? I have been using elmers wood filler, but it seems to be pretty flaky when sanding so I am not sure if there is a better way to do it. 

 

[Craigie65]

Hi Glomar,

I use Vallejo paints.  I used the white primer under the red hull.  For the red I used Vallejo’s Mecha colour dark red.  Black and white, well…… I am sure you can work that out.  I use matt so you will need to have a gloss undercoat for the decals or they are likely to silver.  You can then spray matt over the top.  I use Vallejo’s varnish for this job.

 

Not familiar with elmers  - a US brand?  I use ronseal wood filler.  On the question of sealers and filler yes they are different.  

 

I hand brush the varnish for non painted wood - again I just use Ronseal matt varnish - it is cheaper than the model varnishes and does just as good a job.

 

It is difficult to describe how much thinner to use as it depends on the paint type you start with.  I am assuming you are going to spray?   If it is an airbrush paint such as Vallejo’s airbrush range then just a drop of the Vallejo thinner is enough. The mecha Colour below needed more as its a brush paint.   needs to be thin enough to flow but not so thin that it pools on the subject being sprayed. I use Vallejo thinner - I like to keep to the same brand.

 

I usually thin the primer too even though it says it is for airbrushes

 

Follow the painting order in the instructions - lots of good information there.

[Peanut6]

Glomar, IMHO there is no such thing as "stupid question territory" simply because we don't know what we don't know.  Wood filler does what the name implies, fills gaps, scratches, dents and holes in wood by adhering to the wood.  I used Elmer's wood filler on my Jolly Boat hull and think I know what you mean by it being flakey.  When the filler starts to dry out a bit it becomes difficult to really work into the small gaps.  I would take a teaspoon and put in a different container and mix in a few drops of water.  This made it much easier to work with and really helped getting it worked into the crevices.  Elmer's makes numerous types of wood filler.  Their basic wood filler is a tan color for interior use which can be painted but . . . . doesn't take a stain.  They do have wood fillers that are stainable and I've also seen it available in 3 different shades, light wood, medium wood and dark wood.  Didn't take the time to see if the different colors were stainable or just different shades to get you "close enough"  Wood sealer does what the name implies.  It creates a barrier, seals the wood, to protect it from the elements - whatever those elements may be.  Be aware that once a sealer is applied to wood, attaching items using PVA becomes very difficult because the PVA can't leach into wood any longer.  To Craigie65, yes Elmer's is a US manufacturer that makes a variety of basic, nonspecialized, wood working related products, among other things.    

[Glomar]

Busy week but starting to get back at it! Continuing on a long line of "learning experiences" (mistakes) I realized the follies of sanding too aggressively and put some fairly good gouges in my planks for I have been spending a fair amount of time going back with filler to try and fill them in. 

Getting ready to start painting but wondering if there are any good guides on how to use a waterline marker. I got the one from model expo but there were no instructions on use. 

1) Do I want the pencil to be level with the ship
2) Any standards for determining height or is it just eying it? 
3) Any other advice or mistakes to be aware of? 

 

[Peanut6]

Glomar, I don't know for positive but I would bet that the waterline location is defined somewhere in the plans, possibly/probably on the main side view.  Can't help you with the waterline marker since I stained my hull rather than paint it.  But from what I've seen, all you need is a horizontal line from bow to stern, both sides, and how you get there is up to you.  I've seen some pretty fancy waterline markers and some that were as simple as a pencil taped to a scale (with the pencil point at the appropriate height) or even a pencil pushed thru a styrafoam cup (with the pencil point at the appropriate height).  Wish I could be of more help.  

[Craigie65]

Hey Glomar,

Look at plan 3 to give you an idea of where the waterline is. The boot topping is the waterline. One word of warning, the plans are about 15% smaller than 1:1.

 

 Also the manual has pictures of how to use a waterline marker and the painting sequence.  It has all been well thought out by Chris W and well documented by James H.

[Glomar]

It has been a little time so my last post but it is nice to be able to provide all you fine folks with an update. This next part is going to be a bit of a rant, but finding paint turned out to be a JOURNEY! For whatever reason ALOT of basic colors for airbrushing (red, white black) where out of stock or only in stock with ridiculous shipping fees but I was able to find spray cans. After the cans arrived problems compounded when the Plastikote can arrived rusty. The nozzle was stuck because it was full of this green gunk(oxidation?) After I was able to clear it shot a clear gunky substance initially but then seemed to work. 

Now for the real stuff: 

Going off James H excellent recommendation the colors I used where: 
Tayima Grey Primer 

Badger Anti-Fouling Red Oxide

Citadel Colors Chaos Black 

This recommendation came after I bought the plastikote, but for those with an airbrush Wool 132 had the excellent recommendation of Badger Anti-Fouling Red Oxide which I think came out really well. 

The results for my model I think came out pretty well given that I am complete rookie, but I noticed a little flacking on the Choas black. That could have been a user error problem as I only waited about 18 hours after spraying the final coat before I taped it up for the red oxide. I was using Tamiya Painter Tape but I might have been bit too eager pulling off the first strips. On the left side, I was a little short with the tape on the water line, so there is a bit of unpainted wood. I also airbrushed the photo etched brass with Tamiya XF 1 Black but I do not think that I did a enough prep and alot of those parts end up chipping so I stripped the paint of and sanded them and have the first coat of primer. 

Final Thoughts

1) I didn't think finding paint would be so hard for me, so I would recommend buying your colors before the planking process 

2) Make sure you cover the hole of the bowsprit!!! I got lucky as some of my tap incidentally covered it but it wasn't something I thought about until I saw the paint on the tape. 
3) Primer on the photo etched pieces is probably your friend. 
 

Questions: 
1) Is there a good way to fix the chips on the chaos black without respraying with a rattle can? 

2) Is there a good way to fix the waterline with out respraying? 

3) Is it necessary to apply a pro acrylic finish? 

4) Is there a good way to make a custom stencil or decal for the name of the ship? I am build this for my Dad so I thought it would be cool to put on the family name/ 

 

[wool132]

Can’t help much with your first three questions but for the custom decal I’m intrigued by this post by Dr PR. I’m thinking of using his technique instead of plastering on the kit supplied decals.

 

Jonathan

[Craigie65]

Hi Glomar,

Really good to see you are still progressing.  I like the paint scheme.  I have never used Plastcote - although I have seen a few rants about it!

I think it is just the black that needs touched up, the bit at the waterline looks to be in the black section.  If you hand brush you will see there is a difference.  

 

My instinct would be to re tape and spray the black , but it is your call. 

 

Don’t forget the bowsprit hole😉

 

looking forward to seeing the next pics.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Craigie65

[Glomar]

1 hour ago, Craigie65 said:

Hi Glomar,

Really good to see you are still progressing.  I like the paint scheme.  I have never used Plastcote - although I have seen a few rants about it!

I think it is just the black that needs touched up, the bit at the waterline looks to be in the black section.  If you hand brush you will see there is a difference.  

 

My instinct would be to re tape and spray the black , but it is your call. 

 

Don’t forget the bowsprit hole😉

 

looking forward to seeing the next pics.

That what I was thinking but was just trying to be lazy! Do you think I should just spray a whole other coat on both sides or just the side that is affected? 

Any reason you think the chipping might have occurred? 
 

2 hours ago, wool132 said:

Can’t help much with your first three questions but for the custom decal I’m intrigued by this post by Dr PR. I’m thinking of using his technique instead of plastering on the kit supplied decals.

 

Jonathan

This is a really clever idea so thanks for flagging! 

[DB789]

Hi Glomar,

 

I had the same problem with Chaos Black chipping on my Nisha build. Chaos black gives a superb finish and colour so long as you don’t damage it.
 

As others have suggested, if you are fixing the waterline then respraying the entire side makes sense.
 

But, if like me you repeatedly chip the paint at sites away from the waterline, you can spray through an opening (I used clingfilm which I wouldn’t recommend as it stuck to the hull in places and took more paint off) such as a card with a hole in it and only respray a part of the hull and only need to mask areas nearby where you are repainting. See my Nisha build for my trials and tribulations. I am brush painting going forward! 
 

I don’t know on the varnish. I did coat Nisha’s hull in polyurethane matt varnish to prevent more chips happening. That approach has its own problems - instead of chips in the paint I had peeling varnish when I had to fit the chainplates, etc. 

 

I used BECC lettering to change the name of my Fifie build. The stick on letters are limited in terms of fonts available, but worked fine. They are ever so slightly raised compared to a water slide decal but it’s not noticeable after I varnished over the top of them. 
 

Hope that helps. 
 

Dan

[Glomar]

Thanks all for the painting advice and motivating me not to be lazy! I resprayed both sides, and while it is not perfect, I think it came out pretty well. I did some how miss one little section in the stern which naturally I didn't notice until the tape was off! 
I like the really like the colors, but after I use up the rattle cans, I think I am going to be more proactive in finding paints and just use my airbrush. The Chaos Black goes on really easy but seems to chip just as easily and I don't know what good forsaken liquid that initially came out of the Plastikote but I am pretty sure the box I was spraying it in is a superfund site now.  

Lessons Learned
1) Don't be too eager to rip off the tape  
2) Cover any holes in the bulwarks (there is a little tiny black spot on the inside bulwark where paint came through the hole for the anchor chain)

3) Don't remove all the tiny photo-etched parts before painting them 
3) Get a positive pressure hazmat suite when using Plastikote for painting or chemical warfare. 

Questions: 
1) Is there any surface coat that I can use to prevent the black from further chipping. 
2) Any advice on trying to either touch up or mask off the area around the chip to respray? 

Moving forward, I sprayed the last of the the photo etched parts so going to be moving on to assembling the deck pieces and then onto the mast. I was able to find a 3mm stencil so going to try out that for the stern lettering  I am a bit nervous to start rigging as I can barely tie my shoelaces never mind a hitch knot, but just need to endeavor to persevere. Would not be against any sage wisdom though!

 

[Craigie65]

You are doing a grand job.  

It is fun to fit her out - you will really start to see her take shape.

 

Good luck with the stencils - I’m sure your dad will love her when finished.

[Oldsalt1950]

You could try Minwax Polycrylic topcoat. They make a clear that is ultra flat. I have some works well, Amazon carries it if you can't find it at a hardware store.

[Glomar]

So after a very long hiatus, I am back to finally finish this project. Honestly I had everything besides the rigging down last year but because of life as well as just avoiding to learn knots the project got delayed. But no more!

I don't have a good log entry since my last update, but for the sake of continuity here are some questions that were very generously answered by you all (shout out to Cragie65!) (Help Rigging Main Boom and Gaff for Nisha (Vanguard Models) (Best Way to Tighten Loose Ratlines)

Currently trying to figure out how to rig the Nisha for no sails. I have the gaff up but I think it looks weird because there is no weight on the gaff to cause tension on the rigging. 

 

 

Next Steps

 

Trying to configure the Nisha for no sails in a way that would look presentable. My plan was to configure the gaff and boom as if it had sails (but sans sails) but not sure if that is the best path forward. As always any comments or advice is greatly appreciated!