HMS Macedonian 1812 by JerryTodd - 1:36 scale - RADIO

[Gregory]

The cannon look really good.    No layering sometimes seen with  3D printing..  

[JerryTodd]

58 minutes ago, Gregory said:

The cannon look really good.    No layering sometimes seen with  3D printing..  

It's there, but is much less pronounced with thinner layers and not being round like what comes from a nozzle.  It has a silk texture, like butterfly wings a bit like looking at a phonograph record at a low angle.

[Gregory]

The banding certainly doesn't show up in you photos..  I cant imagine anyone calling you on it as a point of contention...

[JerryTodd]

It's got all the banding it's supposed to have

 

[mtaylor]

Wow...  the guns look great, Jerry.

[6ohiocav]

Jerry,

 

Good to see you back at it.  I loved your Star Trek transporter accident metaphor. Can't wait to see you launch this girl.

 

 

[JerryTodd]

She did go for a swim last May.  If work or this virus don't kill me, I hope to get the hull presentable this year; paint etc.  As I intend to have the gundeck detailed, there'll be more to her than Constellation, but with that experience, a little easier - I hope.

[JerryTodd]

Altered the 3D model of the Blomefield pattern 18 pounders; raised the ER cartouche relief a little so it's easier to see, and widened the trunions, but the still print a bit misshapen.

Again, back in May 19; all three models on display at the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum.

[JerryTodd]

Experience with Constellation's yard bracing got me thinking that that wasn't the most efficient method I could go with.  With the winch drums horizontal, even with the sliding servos and springs to maintain tension, some slack still develops and slack can lead to lines tangling, or slipping off their drum.  To deal with that the drums have very wide flanges and guides to keep the lines in their place.  When I got to trying to control Constellation's courses I could find no way to do it using her horizontal winch drums that wasn't more complicated than it was worth.

 

With the winch drums mounted on their sides, the issue of slack isn't as pronounced as with them mounted horizontally.  With proper guides, there's little chance of them slipping off their drum onto another and getting tangled.  There's ways of dealing with any excessive slack.  Al Lheureux basically used a version of this on his Rattlesnake

 

For a brief moment in 2016, I gave the idea of turning the winches on their side a thought,  What put me off the idea was the vertical space it seemed it would take up, and I let it go, but recently Timmo mentioned his brace controls  in his frigate Enterprise build log, and I got to thinking about it again.

  Looking at the idea of vertical winches in 2016

 

Besides the issue of slack, it's controlling the tacks of the courses within the same winch system that really got me back to thinking of this again.

   

A simple 3D model of two winch servos with drums mounted on their sides.  Reducing the size of the flanges would further reduce the overall size of the unit.  The tall gray things are aluminum sheet with holes to guide the braces onto their drums.

 

[Benjamin sullivan]

good job seems like it's going great so far, can't wait to see it done

[JerryTodd]

Some years ago someone scanned the Macedonian figurehead at the US Naval Academy.  A reproduction has since been made so the "original" will be kept indoors, and the repop up on the pedestal outside.   They somehow found me and offered to 3D print one for my model for a mere $300.  Mind you, that's a for a 2 inch tall figure from a job that they were paid to scan by the US Navy, and machine printed.  I wouldn't get a file to print my own, just a plastic figure I would no doubt have to alter by hand to fit the model.  I declined.

 
I haven't given much thought to the figurehead, until I got my own 3D resin printer.  Now years later, I contacted these fellas about getting an STL file, but they hemmed and hawed about not owning the copyright to sell the file, and not knowing who did.  I figured the Naval Academy contracted them to scan it, so they must own it if these guys say they don't.  Again, I'm in no hurry on this, so I didn't dig any deeper.

I check now and then to see if the file will pop up on Thingiverse or somewhere for free, just-in-case, but instead found a nice scan of a bust of Alexander the Great from some museum in Europe.

The more I compared this with the Navy's figurehead, the more I wondered why theirs looked like the actor Mike Pollard.

 

It's my opinion that the "original" figurehead was "restored" after the fight with United States and probably a few times more after that by some Yank carpenter with a low opinion of British wood carving, winding up looking like it does.  Further, it's alleged the figurehead was mounted on the new frigate built to replace the captured ship, though I've never been able to find anything but a fiddle-head in any image or document.
I suppose the original figurehead was much nicer, and respectful of the subject than what we see in Annapolis today, so I'm going with the bust I found online for my model of the frigate.
 

To test this plan, I altered the 3D file to scale it to size, remove it's pedestal, and make the wedge that fits into the notch on the head knee of the ship.  The print didn't turn out so good, but it served it's purpose.  Once I manage to make the trail-boards, scroll-work, and other details it has to inter-link with, I'll print a better quality version.
This is to be a working, sailing, model, and with all that handling, somethings like this is bound to be damaged or lost at some point.  The great thing about 3D printing some parts is I can easily replace it if damaged or lost for nearly free - unlike a one-time print for $300, and would have to make a mold from to have any chance at a replacement.

Edited July 22, 2023 by JerryTodd

[mtaylor]

Nice workaround, Jerry and it looks great in place.   And good on having the STL just in case.   

[JerryTodd]

I'm still trying to figure Blender out enough to make viny ornaments for the bow of Constellation and Macedonian, but when the frustration gets to be too much, I slip back into Anim8or and work on something my simple mind can handle...

This time it's a galley stove for Macedonian.  I found decent drawings online, that apparently originated here; and photos of a model from the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich to base my 3D model on.

Unlike Constellation, Macedonian will have her gundeck modeled with guns and other details, such as this stove.

I looking for source material to base a model on, it seems the same year Macedonian was launched (June 1810), a new stove by Lamb & Nicholson was being fitted into British warships, but I haven't been able to find any drawings or images of a L&N stove to model from.  Also, I assume the stove would have been requisitioned some time before the ship's launch, and would therefore more likely be a Brodie type.  If someone can show Macedonian  got an L&N stove and direct me to drawings of such a thing, I'll gladly model that.

   

So here's my progress after a couple of hours work.  All the details will go into the model, but nothing with be "functional," that is doors, lids, chain drive, etc won't open, be removable, or move.  It'll barely be visible peering through the gunports or main hatch, but at 1:36 scale, leaving off too many details would be just as noticeable, as I did consider just making a black brick shaped like a stove.

[mtaylor]

I suspect you're right about the stove being a Brodie or equivalent.  The supply chains back then for major items weren't very fast.

[JerryTodd]

I'm only going for "implied" details on this model, and that's almost done.  I made the top of the chimney a separate part and will size it to be attached after the stoves and the forecastle's installed.

There's a brace for the spit-drive arm to make, and a couple of flanges on the feet, and it'll be pretty much done and ready to take a shot at printing.

[JerryTodd]

Before putting more details into the stove, I decided to print it and make sure everything would print....

 

A lot of the details were too fine; the grab-rail, handles, rotisserie sprockets and chain, etc.  The charlie-noble, which is a separate part, fit perfectly though

I went back to the model an beefed up the details; thickened the rail and handles, thickened bots and straps, rotisserie  parts, etc, and for kicks, added an iron texture to make the screen shot look good, though it has nothing to do with printing it.

The whole thing seemed a little small to me, and remembering I have a copy of The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War 1600-1815 by Brian Lavery, which has a great chart of stove dimensions for various gun-rates of ships on page 198 (2006 edition).

On that chart, for a 38 gun ship; the stove's body width should be 56 (48) inches; the length 57 (54) inches, and the height to the top of the flat sides is 48 (37) inches.  The height to the top of the pyramid duct is 64 inches.  The height of the chimney isn't given for ships of less than 80 guns.

(The numbers in parens are the measurements given in the MSW drawing attached a couple of posts earlier.)

On another note; the book mentions Lamb & Nicholson stoves, but shows no image, diagram, or description of one.

Here's a portion of the "Inner Works" of another Lively class frigate, the Bacchate, launched about a year before Macedonian, with the stove outlined in red.

The MSW dimensions are a little smaller than the dimensions given by Lavery for a 38, mostly in height.  Before printing it again, I'm going to adjust the model and check the height of the chimney on the Macedonian model itself.

[JerryTodd]

I adjusting the 3D model to Lavery's chart and printed it.  It looks more in scale with the hull now, and the details certainly printed better than the first try.

The grills pulled a bit during printing where they didn't do that on the previous print, because of how it was oriented in the printer.  Some of the details are still a little frail, but they're all there and serviceable.

 

I posted the STL file on Thingiverse though I can't say how well it'll resize to smaller scales.

 

Here it is with a coat of paint, and with Constellation's crew check the fit.

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by JerryTodd
fixed link

[JerryTodd]

I've decided rather than print things to stick onto Macedonian's stern, like filigree carvings, moldings, and such; I'm going to 3D print the transom and quarter galleries all together; windows, ornaments, moldings, etc.

Obviously this won't be printed in one piece, but will be divided into bite-sized portions that will each fit in the printer, and get bonded together on the hull.

You folks that think 3D modeling/printing is "cheating," are advised to turn away, you may find what follows to be disturbing. 

 

I started this only intending to make quarter galleries, and parts to apply to the stern, but as anyone following my models knows, I often steer a course that would break a snakes back.

Basic beginnings.  This actually got printed to check against the hull and found to be off-scale.

Re-scaled, and resized, I started working out the moldings.

Trying to reconcile the quarter gallery to the stern convinced me to make it all one model.  There's still a long way to go.

[JFMJr]

Awesome project you're doing there..any chance you could post current pictures?

[Nirvana]

On 2/2/2024 at 4:55 PM, JerryTodd said:

 

You folks that think 3D modeling/printing is "cheating," are advised to turn away, you may find what follows to be disturbing. 

 

 

Cheating not so much, as those of us working with such softwares and printing, we know it takes time and rework before it is a good part to be printed.
And even after printing, we catch errors.

[JerryTodd]

Here's the most recent photos of the model.  She's at the rear of the column when it comes to getting worked on, with two models ahead of her.

Oct 22 2023  Jan 4 2024

Feb 6 2024 , I removed the quarter galleries in prep for the 3D printed ones I'm working on.

 

Edited February 6, 2024 by JerryTodd

[JerryTodd]

Still fiddling with getting the transom to line up with that quarter galleries.  I stamped the image of the transom on the 3D slab and I'm just not liking the way it's going.

I'm going to measure the model and build from station 32 aft as accurate to the physical hull as I can.  The curved baseline of the transom, and the two levels of the counter under that (not visible in the images) are built and unchangeable, everything else is flexible, even the width, to a point.

[JerryTodd]

Still trying to figure out blender so i can do all the curly decorations on Constellation's head and Macedonian's stern and not doing very well with the learning curve, so after shoveling some snow today, I fell back on something I know how to do, guns. 

I had these basically modeled for a while now and was just adding details; eyebolts, rings, etc; but I rebuilt the carronade slide completely from scratch.

For Macedonian, I'll need 22 carronades and 28 18's and maybe 2 more for chasers.

Besides various drawings; I used images of the 18's on board Unicorn and the carronades on Trincomalee as general guides.

The files for both are available on Thingiverse

I've started printing them, though it's taken some fidgeting to get them to come out right, mostly in how they are angled and supported.

 

I'm a bit up-in-the air about the color of the carriages/slides. On Victory their all a buff color,  Trincomolee they're black, on Unicorn they're unpainted.  So what color should I paint them for a frigate in 1812?

 

Test prints are done, time to go into full production

Edited Saturday at 10:05 PM by JerryTodd
Update without a new post

[JerryTodd]

The gun models done, I moved on to the capstan.

I based my model on a drawing from NMM of the Neptune's capstan "taken off at Deptford Yard, 1796"  The drawing has an actual scale on it, rather than "1 inch = 5 foot." or some thing equally useless when you're working from digital scans.

I'm working in Anim8or again, and had the bulk of the model done in a couple of hours.  The spar-deck capstan is separate from the gun-deck one to make it easier to install in the model.  I made the pillar hollow to save on resin and facilitate curing, so it doesn't crack over time.  I breaks at the band above the lower capstan, and the bit that extrudes below the upper one will need to have it's length adjusted to fit what the model actually turns out to be.

I simplified some items, like the pawls and stops, and the whole model's basically non-functional, 'cause I don't need it to be functional.