HMS Indefatigable by ECK - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1:64

[ECK]

Thanks, just following the instructions and trying to avoid the mistakes of my youth.

[allanyed]

Very nice kit and your planking is looking very well done.   Are you going to taper the wales so they appear to sit in the rabbet like the surrounding planking?  If you look at contemporary models you will see that the wales do not stand proud at the rabbet otherwise they cannot be seated in that groove.  Is this addressed in your instructions?

 

The taper on contemporary models appears to start at about the position where the cant frames are located.

 

Allan

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by allanyed

[ECK]

I am relying on Chris's research. The plans do not mention any tapering there. Of the other 9 models I have built this was also never described. Thanks for the compliment!

[James H]

I know what Allan means here. There is no provision in the manual for this, but a modeller can do this if they see fit. 
 

I admit I’ve also never tapered there either, so o can’t offer up a model to show this.
 

@allanyed maybe you can show where you’ve done this on your builds? It could be useful for reference in case anyone wants to add that feature. 

[allanyed]

Hi James,

Below are a few pics, the first of HMS Squirrel.

The next two are from Preble Hall. In the second photo the wales can be seen to be flush at the rabbet with the other planking.  In the third photo the wales can be seen protruding below the black strake on the far left and nearly flush with the other planking as it reaches the hawse holes.

My apologies if these are not super clear as my photography abilities are lacking along with many other things.😕

 

2 hours ago, ECK said:

Thanks for the compliment!

You are welcome ECK!😀

 

[ECK]

Very interesting. Tried to find current museum ship pics but can't really see due to lighting. I am tempted.

[allanyed]

ECK

Hope your summer in NC is going well.😀   I never thought about this design feature of tapered wales at the bow until it came up in a discussion about 15 years ago and again with Grant Walker at Preble Hall in Annapolis in 2011 where the diminishing thickness is very clear on the models.  I wish I had better closeups to share.  It is not so difficult to make this taper even if the wales are on the model, but before the bow and hawse hole fixtures are in place. Might take some fiddling at the rabbet, but it can be done.

Allan

[ECK]

Nothing can be finer than being in the Carolinas in the morning.

 

Another sort of historical note. My favorite age of sail movie, besides Hornblower, is Master and Commander Far side of the world. When I was at a conference there in 2019 the HMS  Surprise used in the movie ( a converted ship) is docked in San Diego at the maritime museum. Looks great and you can join  the ship community keeping it fixed and I believe they actually take it out (it does have an engine). The gun deck looks goo from the outside but inside it is not one level space but actually 2 raised steps for the cannons with an alley in between. Wonder how much they spent to make such an accurate and functional ship. Behind it is a soviet era diesel sub.

[mtaylor]

For the movie, they actually made a series of sound stages for each deck on both ships in the movie.  I've read somewhere (here on MSW most likely) that those stages still exist.

[ECK]

Completed most of the lower deck fittings. Will b e spending the weekend making up the stove an many, many gun carriages.

[Glenn-UK]

Nicely done. 

[Kevin]

very nice indeed

 

[ECK]

I envy your position

[ECK]

On the Rhine

[ECK]

Found this from another members Youtube link. Nice 3-d breakdown of the Victory

 

 

[ECK]

Stove pre-paint

 

Post paint and in place. Chimney and condenser dry fitted until upper deck done

[ECK]

So got a air brush for Christmas, never used one until now . Tried it out on all those gun carriages. made life a lot easier.

I liked the insert that ensures they will stay put as my experience with just gluing the wheels always results in one getting loose later. Hers they are with guns dry fitted.

For some extra work I decided to rig the 4 guns on each side that can be seen from the upper deck. Once I slide in the barrel later i can hook the loop over the end of the cannon. Used 2 mm single and 2.5 mm double blocks and 1 mm rigging line.

 

 

[Glenn-UK]

Looks good. I have been considering buying an air brush. Which one did you get?

[aliluke]

Beautiful work ECK in all aspects. The stove is superb. I admire your dedication to a fully rigged cannon - never again for me! Breeching ropes only from now on.

 

I don't know what airbrush you use but my Iwata Eclipse has never missed a beat in years...but these are tools that need very careful cleaning and care.

[ECK]

This is the kit that I got on amazon. Just the airbrush and compressor are around $100

[allanyed]

ECK

Continues to be VERY neatly done! 

 

This subject has reared its ugly head a number of times, so apologies for raising it again.  I am still hoping to find out if there is any contemporary  source regarding the rigging blocks used on the guns.   Do you have a source that suggested that you use a double block and a single block on the running out tackle for the cannon instead of two singles?  From The History of English Sea Ordnance, Volume II, page 386 by Adrian Caruana  The running out tackle consisted of a rope (the fall) and two blocks (both a single except for 32-pdrs which had one single and one double), each equipped with a hook.  

 

The same applied to the train tackle which you do show with two singles.  I have no idea what his source is for this information, and I have not found any contemporary source that actually addresses this.  I have seen modern day drawings and modern reproductions but nothing stating it is based on actual practice in the appropriate time frame.  

Allan

 

 

[Kevin]

lovely work ECK

[ECK]

I use the gun rigging recommended in Sphinx and Duchess of Kensington. Also if you watch the 3-D video I posted earlier the below screen shot shows similar rigging although a double block is on the rear

[allanyed]

On 7/10/2023 at 5:47 PM, ECK said:

3-D video I posted earlier

The video really is interesting and obviously took a lot of work.  But, there are a number of  things in the video that are wrong, so I would not rely on it without finding confirming information elsewhere.  For example the art work for the guns does not show the hooks on the end of the lines.  Also, the outboard trucks look to be the same diameter as the inboard trucks rather than having those closest to the bulwarks substantially larger in diameter.   Regarding the blocks themselves, these are supposed to be 32 pounders on the lower gun deck so they would have carried the double and single block if Caruana is to be believed.  In the end, it does not take away from your workmanship in the least, I was just curious to find specific contemporary information one way or the other.

Allan

Edited July 12, 2023 by allanyed

[ECK]

So looking for contemporary examples, HMS Victory upper deck guns, you can see the double and single blocks.  I believe these are 24 pounders.

 

Alsop on USS Constitution, albeit an American ship, similar and they are 24 pounders

I did not use hooks as scale so small. So from available ships seems like double/single may be for 32 and 24 pounders. I suspect the  single/singles may be more for 18 and 9 lbers.

[ECK]

If you look at the constitution they do not use hooks on the double block attached to the side.  Anyway, I finished my extra work and can now move on to finishing the gundeck

[allanyed]

On 7/10/2023 at 9:21 PM, ECK said:

So looking for contemporary examples, HMS Victory upper deck guns, you can see the double and single blocks.  I believe these are 24 pounders.

Hi Eck

Sorry for the miscommunication, but when I mentioned contemporary, I meant contemporary to about 1800, not today. I realize the modern definition of contemporary can be different and can be confusing because of its slightly different meanings. In this case I meant the old definition where it  refers to things from the same era as certain other things.  For instance, when Victory  was contemporary to the reign of George III.     

 

Regarding the modern day photos, as of a couple years ago keep in mind that all but about eight of the cannon on Victory are fiberglass or some other material other than metal  so I would not assume anything about those in the photo is correct without corroborating evidence.  They may be, but again, I would love to see information from the 17th through early 19th centuries that explains the rigging.  As the cannon patterns changed a lot and carriage designs changed as well over this 200 year time span perhaps this part of the rigging did as well.

 

For the photo of the USS Constitution as she is not a British ship some would hesitate to consider her as an example for what is found on British ships such as HMS Indefatigable.  I am sure there were similarities in some things and that would be an interesting topic, but as with the Victory, the photo of the Constitution is modern thus not necessarily useful to the late 18th century or early 19th century.  

 

Allan

Edited July 12, 2023 by allanyed

[ECK]

It took awhile to get all the beams and supports ready. As you can see, I lined them all up and spray painted them. Getting rid of the laser burn on the main beams took forever. Unfortunately the laser cutting several of them out must have had a drink or two as the cuts were a bit wobbly and required quite a bit of work to clean up. Hopefully will not affect the fitting of the deck.

 

 

 

 

The char I did not remove from the pillars takes a lot of paint to cover.

 

[ECK]

Days work done. Assembled the stern beams including all the vertical and horizontal knees. Although will not really be seen, the picture of the gun deck looks great from deck level with the knees in place.

 

Not sure how they would turn the capstan on this deck without removing the posts.

[ECK]

Morning work shows the completed beams and knees with a visit from Adm Cochrane