oakheart Posted January 25 Author Share #181 Posted January 25 (edited) 2 hours ago, Gregory said: Just moving the pin into the cut-out should do it. Thanks @Gregory it will be the next job on the list....... Edited January 25 by oakheart mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 25 Author Share #182 Posted January 25 17 minutes ago, allanyed said: this gives the idea on their shape. Hi Allan @allanyed, thanks for the compliment. Those look a little complex to replicate at this scale, but I may amend the shape a bit allanyed and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted January 25 Share #183 Posted January 25 (edited) Another interesting one, dated 1830. Note that the forward edge of the pintle lines up roughly with the forward edge of the rudder and that the 'notch' is depicted dashed indicating a pocket which will look like a shallow notch from the side. Edited January 25 by iMustBeCrazy allanyed, druxey, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted January 25 Share #184 Posted January 25 The holes through the gudgeons should be aligned with the aft edge of the stern post as well. As mentioned, there should be a minimum gap between rudder and post. mtaylor, oakheart and Gregory 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 26 Author Share #185 Posted January 26 11 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said: the 'notch' Hi Craig @iMustBeCrazy talking of notch, it looks like the straps are rebated onto the wood of both the rudder and sternpost? Don't think I will be doing that. Tim mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted January 26 Share #186 Posted January 26 9 minutes ago, oakheart said: talking of notch, it looks like the straps are rebated onto the wood of both the rudder and sternpost? Don't think I will be doing that. Yep. Don't blame you, lots of things just don't scale well. oakheart and mtaylor 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 26 Author Share #187 Posted January 26 Always ready to rush ahead. I tapered the rudder top to bottom and fitted the top two pintles. Then blacked them, I think they turned out pretty well. I am very pleased closeup you can see there is a bit of bleed round the straps but it almost adds to the reality of the model? they do look the part Tim iMustBeCrazy, CiscoH, Gregory and 3 others 6 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 27 Author Share #188 Posted January 27 Gudgeons in place still to be bolted down and blacked. The centre one I cut a bit short, If I can find the energy I may remake it, then again once the model is finished I may never notice it. I need to trim the pins to a better length. Tim GrandpaPhil, iMustBeCrazy, Gregory and 5 others 8 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 28 Author Share #189 Posted January 28 (edited) Working up to the tiller. My feeling about the original drawing is that it does not look right? I have a scale and figure ( @ 1:48 about 5' 9" tall ) which I have placed in bills drawing I have this photo of BM45 Pilgrim built in 1895 ( much later I know ) but about the same size as speedy. here is my rough cut based on Bills original drawing does it need to be longer / higher to look right ? Tim and yet another rabbit hole, Alice here I come.............. may be of interest to others, here is Pilgrim BM45 in 2008 before her £1 million rebuild Edited January 28 by oakheart mtaylor, davyboy, Gregory and 2 others 5 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted January 28 Share #190 Posted January 28 1 hour ago, oakheart said: My feeling about the original drawing is that it does not look right? Original? mtaylor and oakheart 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 28 Author Share #191 Posted January 28 53 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said: Original? Thanks Craig, that is much more elegant, I will remake it to suit. I forgot, your Lapwing is a sister to Speedy Is that from zaz6425? I have a copy of that, should have checked it. Tim mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 28 Author Share #192 Posted January 28 14 minutes ago, oakheart said: remake it to suit the 'sheds' WC and pantry also look better in the orginal Tim Gregory, mtaylor and GrandpaPhil 3 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 28 Author Share #193 Posted January 28 And some whittling later a much nicer tiller now to tidy up round the base. Tim davyboy, ccoyle, Gregory and 3 others 6 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted January 28 Share #194 Posted January 28 7 hours ago, oakheart said: Is that from zaz6425? I have a copy of that, should have checked it. It's the Danish version, G5757 . 2 hours ago, oakheart said: a much nicer tiller A much nicer tiller indeed. oakheart and mtaylor 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 28 Author Share #195 Posted January 28 13 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said: It's the Danish version, Yes now I look the RMG draught is different again to both that and Bills drawing. I like the Danish shed better. looks to be more leg room. Tim CiscoH, mtaylor and iMustBeCrazy 3 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 29 Author Share #196 Posted January 29 First thanks for all the likes guys The tiller is now finished, I just need to put some kind of lining around the post just to neaten it up What's next? I do have a list somewhere maybe I should look at it Tim GrandpaPhil, mtaylor, davyboy and 1 other 4 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted January 29 Share #197 Posted January 29 4 hours ago, oakheart said: I just need to put some kind of lining around the post just to neaten it up You might find THIS thread useful. mtaylor and oakheart 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 29 Author Share #198 Posted January 29 (edited) 2 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said: You might find THIS thread useful Thanks Craig, that is indeed a very interesting discussion. My solution is much simpler. A sort of skirting, it won't stop much water but it looks a bit neater than just a ragged hole. Tim Edited January 29 by oakheart mtaylor, iMustBeCrazy, GrandpaPhil and 1 other 4 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted January 29 Share #199 Posted January 29 Usually rudderheads were boxed in, with a slot for the tiller. allanyed, oakheart and mtaylor 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 30 Author Share #200 Posted January 30 (edited) 9 hours ago, druxey said: Usually rudderheads were boxed in, with a slot for the tiller. Thanks @druxey I have just started reading the thread that Craig @iMustBeCrazy gave a link too above. Was there any conclusion yet? I can't see any details on the drawings I have, also the kit that @Thunder built did not give any details either. Was it just a given. The shipwright just did what was always done. I will be quite happy to make something suitable for this cutter model if I can find the shape and size. It's all a voyage of discovery for me at this stage in my model ship building. Tim Edited January 30 by oakheart druxey and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted January 30 Share #201 Posted January 30 58 minutes ago, oakheart said: I can't see any details on the drawings ZAZ6349 (Vigilant as fitted) I think is the only 'family member' drawing that shows anything. It's quite an elaborate structure with two wc's and a number of lockers and extends all the way to the stern. 10 hours ago, druxey said: with a slot for the tiller. I suspect they had a canvas cover over the slot and tiller. mtaylor and oakheart 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 30 Author Share #202 Posted January 30 34 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said: It's quite an elaborate structure Thanks Craig @iMustBeCrazy I have done some more research and think I will leave it as it is. Why examples of Cutters from that period @Chuck Cheerful looks like this, it's a simple hole Pilgrim BM45 although built in 1895 she is a similar size and style of ship and still sailing. other contemporary cutter models at RMG do indeed show the stern decked or boxed in, it looks like anything you wanted you could have. It does beg the question, with these very simple designs, how did they stop a following sea from spurting up through the gaping hole ? was it just canvas as Craig @iMustBeCrazy suggested? Tim mtaylor, ccoyle and GrandpaPhil 3 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 30 Author Share #203 Posted January 30 (edited) and just to confirm my decision, Vanguard @chris watton is bringing out a new kit for the cutter Sherbourne looking at that, I realise that there is some woodwork missing from the transom on this model, I think I will add that. What are they called, on the transom, those angled timbers. after that - I really am going to line the gun ports Tim Edited January 30 by oakheart GrandpaPhil, mtaylor, ccoyle and 1 other 4 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted January 30 Share #204 Posted January 30 6 hours ago, oakheart said: and just to confirm my decision And it is your decision, you are owner and master. However, many things are left off the drawings, none of the 'family portraits' show catheads, horses, backstays, ............. as far as I can remember. 6 hours ago, oakheart said: What are they called, on the transom, those angled timbers. Counter timbers. They usually stand on the wing transom and extend to the taffrail. oakheart and mtaylor 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted January 31 Share #205 Posted January 31 14 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said: ZAZ6349 (Vigilant as fitted) I think is the only 'family member' drawing that shows anything. It's quite an elaborate structure with two wc's and a number of lockers and extends all the way to the stern. I suspect they had a canvas cover over the slot and tiller. From what I've seen, the canvas cover was on the outside of the stern, wrapped around the rudder at the lower end of cover and then the top area was nailed to the transom. I would think these vessels used something similar. oakheart, Gregory and davyboy 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted January 31 Share #206 Posted January 31 1 hour ago, mtaylor said: I would think these vessels used something similar. I was thinking the same later but couldn't find any evidence. But I think you're right. mtaylor and oakheart 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 31 Author Share #207 Posted January 31 11 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said: Counter timbers Thanks Craig. So as 'Master and Commander' I decree that counter timbers shall be fitted 🙂 Tim mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 31 Author Share #208 Posted January 31 5 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said: but couldn't find any evidence. As you said earlier these details are not shown on the plans and any paintings tend to idealize the ship to look neat and tidy. Maybe I could also add some of the barrels and other details as shown on the 'Kite' painting Tim mtaylor 1 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted January 31 Share #209 Posted January 31 1 hour ago, oakheart said: some of the barrels You've said a few times "it's not Speedy", are you joining the other team? Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakheart Posted January 31 Author Share #210 Posted January 31 21 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said: "it's not Speedy", are you joining the other team? Now I am confused. I do not get the reference? What I think is that Bill who designed this model in 1972 simplified it to make it easier to build. I am learning to build a model ship from wood and having fun doing it, so adding detail that he left out is part of that. here are two counter timbers made but not fixed yet, should I add two more in the corners, it would also hide that ugly gap. Tim Thukydides, GrandpaPhil, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Current Builds : Cutter "Speedy" 1828 from Plans by Bill Shoulders at 148 Bounty Launch - Scratch build - FINISHED 85 ft. Harbour Tug. scratch built from plans by Francis Smith. ( FINISHED but no build log for this ) HMS Lightning. kit bashed from Deans Marine HMS Kelly kit ( FINISHED ) yes at last.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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