HM Cutter Speedy 1828 by oakheart - from plans drawn by Bill Shoulders in 1972

[oakheart]

2 hours ago, Gregory said:

Just moving the pin into the cut-out should do it.

Thanks @Gregory  it will be the next job on the list.......

Edited January 25 by oakheart

[oakheart]

17 minutes ago, allanyed said:

this gives the idea on their shape.

Hi Allan @allanyed, thanks for the compliment.

 

Those look a little complex to replicate at this scale, but I may amend the shape a bit

[iMustBeCrazy]

Another interesting one, dated 1830.

Note that the forward edge of the pintle lines up roughly with the forward edge of the rudder and that the 'notch' is depicted dashed indicating a pocket which will look like a shallow notch from the side.

 

 

 

Edited January 25 by iMustBeCrazy

[druxey]

The holes through the gudgeons should be aligned with the aft edge of the stern post as well. As mentioned, there should be a minimum gap between rudder and post. 

[oakheart]

11 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

the 'notch'

Hi Craig @iMustBeCrazy talking of notch, it looks like the straps are rebated onto the wood of both the rudder and sternpost?

Don't think I will be doing that.

 

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

9 minutes ago, oakheart said:

talking of notch, it looks like the straps are rebated onto the wood of both the rudder and sternpost?

Don't think I will be doing that.

Yep. Don't blame you, lots of things just don't scale well.

[oakheart]

Always ready to rush ahead.

 

I tapered the rudder top to bottom and fitted the top two pintles.

Then blacked them, I think they turned out pretty well. I am very pleased

 

 

closeup you can see there is a bit of bleed round the straps but it almost adds to the reality of the model?

 

 

they do look the part

 

Tim

[oakheart]

Gudgeons in place still to be bolted down and blacked.

The centre one I cut a bit short, If I can find the energy I may remake it, then again once the model is finished I may never notice it.

 

 

I need to trim the pins to a better length.

 

Tim

[oakheart]

Working up to the tiller.

My feeling about the original drawing is that it does not look right?

 

I have  a scale and figure ( @ 1:48 about 5' 9" tall )

 

 

which I have placed in bills drawing

 

 

I have this photo of BM45 Pilgrim built in 1895 ( much later I know ) but about the same size as speedy.

 

 

here is my rough cut based on Bills original drawing

 

 

does it need to be longer / higher to look right ?

 

Tim

 

and yet another rabbit hole, Alice here I come..............

 

may be of interest to others, here is Pilgrim BM45 in 2008 before her £1 million rebuild 

 

 

 

Edited January 28 by oakheart

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 hour ago, oakheart said:

My feeling about the original drawing is that it does not look right?

Original?

 

[oakheart]

53 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Original?

 

Thanks Craig, that is much more elegant, I will remake it to suit.

I forgot, your Lapwing is a sister to Speedy

Is that from zaz6425? I have a copy of that, should have checked it.

Tim

[oakheart]

14 minutes ago, oakheart said:

remake it to suit

 

the 'sheds' WC and pantry also look better in the orginal

 

Tim

[oakheart]

And some whittling later a much nicer tiller

 

 

now to tidy up round the base.

 

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

7 hours ago, oakheart said:

Is that from zaz6425? I have a copy of that, should have checked it.

It's the Danish version, G5757 .

2 hours ago, oakheart said:

a much nicer tiller

A much nicer tiller indeed.

 

[oakheart]

13 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

It's the Danish version,

Yes now I look the RMG draught is different again to both that and Bills drawing.

 

I like the Danish shed better.

looks to be more leg room.

 

Tim

[oakheart]

First thanks for all the likes guys

The tiller is now finished, I just need to put some kind of lining around the post just to neaten it up

 

 

What's next?

I do have a list somewhere maybe I should look at it

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

4 hours ago, oakheart said:

I just need to put some kind of lining around the post just to neaten it up

You might find THIS thread useful.

 

[oakheart]

2 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

You might find THIS thread useful

Thanks Craig, that is indeed a very interesting discussion.

 

My solution is much simpler. A sort of skirting, it won't stop much water but it looks a bit neater than just a ragged hole.

 

 

Tim

Edited January 29 by oakheart

[druxey]

Usually rudderheads were boxed in, with a slot for the tiller.

[oakheart]

9 hours ago, druxey said:

Usually rudderheads were boxed in, with a slot for the tiller.

Thanks @druxey I have just started reading the thread that Craig @iMustBeCrazy gave a link too above.

Was there any conclusion yet?

I can't see any details on the drawings I have, also the kit that @Thunder built did not give any details either.

Was it just a given. The shipwright just did what was always done. 

I will be quite happy to make something suitable for this cutter model if I can find the shape and size.

It's all a voyage of discovery for me at this stage in my model ship building.

 

Tim

 

 

 

Edited January 30 by oakheart

[iMustBeCrazy]

58 minutes ago, oakheart said:

I can't see any details on the drawings

ZAZ6349 (Vigilant as fitted) I think is the only 'family member' drawing that shows anything. It's quite an elaborate structure with two wc's and a number of lockers and extends all the way to the stern.

 

10 hours ago, druxey said:

with a slot for the tiller.

I suspect they had a canvas cover over the slot and tiller.

[oakheart]

34 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

It's quite an elaborate structure

Thanks Craig @iMustBeCrazy I have done some more research and think I will leave it as it is.

 

Why

examples of Cutters from that period

@Chuck Cheerful looks like this, it's a simple hole

 

 

Pilgrim BM45 although built in 1895 she is a similar size and style of ship and still sailing.

 

 

other contemporary cutter models at RMG do indeed show the stern decked or boxed in, it looks like anything you wanted you could have.

 

It does beg the question, with these very simple designs, how did they stop a following sea from spurting up through the gaping hole ?

was it just canvas as Craig @iMustBeCrazy suggested?

 

Tim

 

 

[oakheart]

and just to confirm my decision, Vanguard @chris watton is bringing out a new kit for the cutter Sherbourne

 

 

looking at that, I realise that there is some woodwork missing from the transom on this model, I think I will add that. 

What are they called, on the transom, those angled timbers.

 

after that - I really am going to line the gun ports

 

Tim

Edited January 30 by oakheart

[iMustBeCrazy]

6 hours ago, oakheart said:

and just to confirm my decision

And it is your decision, you are owner and master.

 

However, many things are left off the drawings, none of the 'family portraits' show catheads, horses, backstays, ............. as far as I can remember.

 

6 hours ago, oakheart said:

What are they called, on the transom, those angled timbers.

Counter timbers. They usually stand on the wing transom and extend to the taffrail.

[mtaylor]

14 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

ZAZ6349 (Vigilant as fitted) I think is the only 'family member' drawing that shows anything. It's quite an elaborate structure with two wc's and a number of lockers and extends all the way to the stern.

 

I suspect they had a canvas cover over the slot and tiller.

 From what I've seen, the canvas cover was on the outside of the stern, wrapped around the rudder at the lower end of cover and then the top area was nailed to the transom.   I would think these vessels used something similar.

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 hour ago, mtaylor said:

I would think these vessels used something similar.

I was thinking the same later but couldn't find any evidence. But I think you're right.

[oakheart]

11 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Counter timbers

Thanks Craig.

So as 'Master and Commander' I decree that counter timbers shall be fitted  🙂

 

Tim

 

[oakheart]

5 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

but couldn't find any evidence.

As you said earlier these details are not shown on the plans and any paintings tend to idealize the ship to look neat and tidy.

 

Maybe I could also add some of the barrels and other details as shown on the 'Kite' painting

 

 

Tim

[iMustBeCrazy]

1 hour ago, oakheart said:

some of the barrels

You've said a few times "it's not Speedy", are you joining the other team?

[oakheart]

21 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

"it's not Speedy", are you joining the other team?

Now I am confused. I do not get the reference?

 

What I think is that Bill who designed this model in 1972  simplified it to make it easier to build.

I am learning to build a model ship from wood and having fun doing it, so adding detail that he left out is part of that.

 

here are two counter timbers made but not fixed yet, should I add two more in the corners, it would also hide that ugly gap.

 

 

Tim