rlb Posted January 30 Share #1 Posted January 30 (edited) Hello all, Today I had the opportunity to buy a used Sherline lathe and mill, so I did. I have no prior experience with them so I am reading the online manual from the Sherline website, and trying to familiarize myself with the basic nomenclature and basic operation of these machines. From what I have learned so far, they are somewhat older machines, (probably pre 1999) but still model 4000 for the lathe, and 5000 for the mill. I have one roadblock immediately. The jacobs chuck is stuck in the mill spindle-- Am I right that this should be just a friction fit? What is the best way to loosen/remove this? I ask this knowing that some may be thinking "if he can't do this, these machines are wasted on him". Any advice is appreciated. Ron Edited January 30 by rlb mtaylor, thibaultron and Canute 3 Quote Building: US Brig Oneida (1809) HMS Euryalus (1803) Completed: John Alden Sloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANYAN Posted January 30 Share #2 Posted January 30 (edited) Hi Ron, I have a Sherline mill also. That chuck usually comes with a draw bar (threaded on one end and a bolt type head) that you put in from the top of the spindle assembly. I partially engage the thread of the draw bar into the chuck bore, give it a tap or two with a small rubber mallet (small hammer will work also) which usually disengages the tapered (morse) chuck head. If you don't have the draw bar, putting a metal rod of suitable OD down into the spindle bore and tapping that should also work, BUT put a rag or something under the chuck so that if it dislodges completely, it will fall onto a padded surface and not damage the cross-table or the chuck etc. The rod could be one of the many different bars/rods provided by Sherline, but should be a smaller OD than the bore, but bigger than the internally threaded bore in the top of the chuck (so that you don't drive the bar into this and damage the thread). I hope that resolves the issue for you. cheers Pat Edited January 30 by BANYAN mtaylor, CPDDET, Canute and 2 others 5 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted January 30 Share #3 Posted January 30 (edited) I do not have this machine but, having said that, there should always be an access hole on the far side to knock it out with a rod if/when it sticks. If you cannot see it, there must be a cover over it. It should be a tapered hole. Can you remove a cover? Put a towel or something below to catch it as it drops out. Good luck Edited January 30 by AON thibaultron, mtaylor, rlb and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlb Posted January 31 Author Share #4 Posted January 31 Thanks Pat and Alan. I was able to find a draw bar in the box of accessories, and thread it into the top of the chuck through the spindle assembly. I gave it a few taps with a small hammer but it didn't budge. I'm nervous of hitting it too hard. But am I on the right track? Ron thibaultron, mtaylor and Canute 3 Quote Building: US Brig Oneida (1809) HMS Euryalus (1803) Completed: John Alden Sloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dziadeczek Posted January 31 Share #5 Posted January 31 Don't thread it into the chuck all the way! Just loosely place it there and tap it. mtaylor, thibaultron, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted January 31 Share #6 Posted January 31 Would cold cause the components to contract? I have a vague memory of an aerosol something that acted like liquid Nitrogen. rlb, thibaultron, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted January 31 Share #7 Posted January 31 (edited) When you buy something from Sherline that fits into a Morse Taper it usually comes with a steel pin to tap it out of the tapered socket. The threaded bolt is to be used for drawing it into the taper, not driving it out. A piece of steel round stock larger than the hole in the tapered tail of the chuck with the two ends machined or filed square is the correct tool to use. I believe that the pin supplied with my Jacobs Chuck is 1/2in dia. A good hard smack should dislodge it. Keep in mind that since it’s tapered, as soon as it starts to move it should drop out. Roger Edited January 31 by Roger Pellett mtaylor, Canute, thibaultron and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted January 31 Share #8 Posted January 31 Please use a soft-headed hammer for the purpose! mtaylor, Canute, rlb and 1 other 4 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thibaultron Posted January 31 Share #9 Posted January 31 I would stick a wood block between the head and table, and run the head down to lock the block in place, also. If it is really stuck, you might damage the ways (the piece the head slides on), or the head if you have to hit it hard. These are small machines. mtaylor, rlb and Canute 3 Quote Ron Thibault Shipjack Carrie Price from Pyro kit, with upgraded detailing and history. Going From A 2D Drawing To A 3D Printed Part Tutorial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnl Posted January 31 Share #10 Posted January 31 Please do not use any hammer on the top of your spindle. The bearings will not like it. You will notice there is a small gap between the top of the chuck and the spindle. They make wedges specifically to separate Jacobs tapers. http://www.jacobschuck.com/Wedge-Set/52.html Bob Cleek, rlb, Canute and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnl Posted January 31 Share #11 Posted January 31 (edited) See brinelling bearings for what happens if you use a hammer. Edited January 31 by mnl rlb, mtaylor, thibaultron and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cleek Posted January 31 Share #12 Posted January 31 45 minutes ago, mnl said: Please do not use any hammer on the top of your spindle. The bearings will not like it. You will notice there is a small gap between the top of the chuck and the spindle. They make wedges specifically to separate Jacobs tapers. http://www.jacobschuck.com/Wedge-Set/52.html Exactamente! And I believe that the threads on the spindle above the Jacobs chuck accommodate a threaded collet holder for your milling bits. A Morse or Jacobs taper arbor would likely not hold the tapered arbor when side-loaded by milling forces and the arbor and chuck would fall out of the spindle at speed, which might not be pretty. The Jacobs chuck is for vertical drilling, not milling processes. You will have to purchase wedges to match the size of your Jacobs chuck. rlb and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlb Posted January 31 Author Share #13 Posted January 31 Thanks everyone for your advice. Sherline does sell a "knockout bar" as described by Roger Pellet, so perhaps they expect light tapping (with a soft hammer) would not be harmful? I do take mnl's caution seriously though, and I have also looked into the Jacobs chuck wedge sets. With shipping and tax one of those would be around $30, not the end of the world, but it would be easy enough to make a similar "U" shaped hardwood wedge that I think I will try first. thibaultron, Canute and mtaylor 3 Quote Building: US Brig Oneida (1809) HMS Euryalus (1803) Completed: John Alden Sloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted January 31 Share #14 Posted January 31 If they are ball bearings they are not designed for a side force. As the spindle is vertical I'd suspect they are tapered roller bearings that will take side loading by design so light taps with a soft hammer/mallet should dislodge it. If not tapered roller bearings then the machine is a poor design mechanically speaking. If you use the long threaded bolt you might damage the threads. The rod should be a larger diameter so as not to engage or contact the threads at all. Canute, mtaylor, thibaultron and 2 others 5 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted January 31 Share #15 Posted January 31 Some machines are designed that if you retract it completely it will self dislodge. That is how the spindle on most lathes work. Bob Cleek, mtaylor, Canute and 2 others 5 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted January 31 Share #16 Posted January 31 I have a brass hammer that I use to dislodge the cluck from my Sherline Lathe, but I have never had to repeatedly pound the bar. And the knockout bar is just a piece of steel. If the end gets peened, file it off. Normally when you dislodge the chuck you are not transmitting the full impact of the hammer to the headstock bearings. The knockout bar rests only on the end of the tapered shank holding the chuck. As soon as the chuck begins to move there is no load on the bearings at all. You are not pounding on the spindle itself. The tailstock on the Sherline lathe is fitted with a #0 Morse Taper. Tools in the tailstock are removed as Alan O’Neil writes; by retracting it completely. This is not true of the headstock. Sherline uses drawbolts to snug the Jacobs Chuck and milling tools into the threaded socket. It is necessary to use the knockout bar to dislodge them. Other Sherline chucks and tools are thread onto the headstock spindle. Give it a good hard smack. It should pop loose. Roger rlb, Canute, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution Dziadeczek Posted January 31 Solution Share #17 Posted January 31 Canute, thibaultron, CiscoH and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlb Posted January 31 Author Share #18 Posted January 31 (edited) Thanks for the video, Dziadeczek. He looks like he is tapping harder and with a bigger hammer than I did, so I will probably try this again. The mill sat unused for many years, which might make the chuck harder to dislodge. I did try with a wooden wedge, but the wedge broke apart. Ron Edited January 31 by rlb Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote Building: US Brig Oneida (1809) HMS Euryalus (1803) Completed: John Alden Sloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted January 31 Share #19 Posted January 31 Excellent video! Answers all the questions. thibaultron, rlb, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlb Posted January 31 Author Share #20 Posted January 31 Got it!! After a few more vigorous taps (still with a very small hammer) it came loose-- Thanks everyone for your help--this case is now closed. Ron AON, thibaultron, CiscoH and 4 others 7 Quote Building: US Brig Oneida (1809) HMS Euryalus (1803) Completed: John Alden Sloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted February 1 Share #21 Posted February 1 Correction of my post from this AM. The knockout bar furnished by Sherline for removing tools from the #1 Morse taper headstock is 5/16” diameter, not 1/2”. mtaylor, Canute, rlb and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted February 1 Share #22 Posted February 1 And now, a really good clean up, I think. AON, rlb, Roger Pellett and 5 others 8 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPDDET Posted February 1 Share #23 Posted February 1 I use a piece of brass round stock . Same diameter as the sherline knockout bar which didn't come with my sherline mill. I've always been fearful of ruining threads using the bolt method. mtaylor, AON, Canute and 3 others 6 Quote Current build: NRG Half Hull Previous build: MS Bluenose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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