alcoholic stain on blocks

[Frank Burroughs]

Hundreds of blocks  need an alcoholic stain, or, not. If a was to soak these blocks, would walnut stain be used?  Do I need to stain at all?

[Bob Cleek]

Well, that would depend upon whether you wanted to color them differently from the natural color of whatever you made them from, no? The color of blocks will depend largely upon the period of the ship one is modeling. Some blocks were oiled bare wood. Later, blocks were painted, usually white or black.

[Frank Burroughs]

2 minutes ago, Bob Cleek said:

The color of blocks will depend largely upon the period of the ship one is modeling

 

I have some homework to do

[allanyed]

Hi Frank,

What ship are the blocks for?  If for an English ship there are hundreds of photos of rigged models at RMG Collections website, the Kriegstein collection, Lees' Masting and Rigging, and other sources that might be of some help. 

Allan

[Frank Burroughs]

9 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Lees' Masting and Rigging,

Yes, I will look there.

 

10 minutes ago, allanyed said:

What ship are the blocks for?

CSS Alabama revell 1/96

[allanyed]

Not sure Lees (British ships 1625-1860) will be of a lot of help for an American ship in 1862 but it will be interesting to see what was used nonetheless.   

Allan

[Bob Fraser]

Whilst built for the Confederate states, Alabama was built in the UK by Lairds of Birkenhead. Just a coupleof miles from where i used to live.

So she could have been built to British scantlings for the time period. 

There used to be a model of her on display at the outdoor swimming baths at New Brighton that was built by a member of the CSS Alabama Association who wanted to raise her.

Alabama Wiki

[Frank Burroughs]

End of the month and I am running out of money.  Alcoholic walnut stain for all the blocks.  Is solvent based the same as alcoholic base?

Got a favorite brand?

[Frank Burroughs]

It seems the stain used for blocks is acrylic paint thinned with alcohol.  Is this right?

[Jaager]

46 minutes ago, Frank Burroughs said:

Alcoholic walnut stain for all the blocks.  Is solvent based the same as alcoholic base?

The first generation acrylic paints had icky surface texture - like chalk- the paintings that I saw - I did not care for the look. But the molecules are hydrophilic. They play nice with water.  Alcohol and acrylic molecules may not play nice together - or - a shade that is a mixture of pigments may have some molecules having a different affinity and the color come out different.

 

 

The lack of precision in the use of terminology leads to confusion and misunderstanding.

A dye has a solvent.  It is a true solution. individual molecules evenly dispersed in the solvent.  No settling, no change in content over time.  Where the solvent goes, the dye molecules also go.

A stain has a vehicle.  The pigment particles - a clump of pigment molecules - are temporarily suspended in the liquid carrier.  They settle out if left alone.  They stay on the surface of wood.

 

The dyes that I am familiar with are hydrophilic - they dissolve in water or alcohol - I think alcohol is preferable for scale work.  Surface fibers of wood do not swell with alcohol, they do with wood.

Some old style stains are organic solvent based.  Think of them as semi transparent paints that are wood colored.  Some stains must also contain dyes if they are featured as being "penetrating".

I suspect that an acrylic stain - if such exist - will use water as a carrier - an awful prospect to imagine as far as ending with a smooth surface.

I wonder if the fanatics who ban VOC products use water in their engines? 

 

Dyes are for high quality wood.  As with a fabric dye, the internal substance of the wood becomes the new color.  The grain is unaffected.  Other than the color, the surface is unaffected.  PVA still bonds it.

Stains are for wood with unremarkable grain.  The pigment sits on the surface.   I think a stain will either need a clear overcoat (a varnish - in the original meaning of that word - before there was commercial anything doing that)  or will also contain a polymerizing clear component (varnish stain) or a plastic (polyurethane).  

Edited April 30 by Jaager

[Gregory]

On 4/28/2024 at 4:18 AM, Frank Burroughs said:

Do I need to stain at all?

What do they look like?

[Jaager]

1 hour ago, Gregory said:

What do they look like?

I agree.  Going back to the baseline and defining any problem is key to getting things done correctly.

 

There is no standard process.  What, if any, color adjustment depends on the starting material.

 

There are lots of How To articles covering block making.  An easy method for mass production and minimal individual block manipulation is a goal for many.

 

One possible beginning:

If you have plastic blocks from a kit -  then perhaps using a series of coats of a dilute enamel paint that is the desired wood shade?  

String the blocks on wire and dip them over and over?  Light touch as far as pigment density per coat?   On small  blocks - I see brush application being frustrating.  Using an aerosol application on a sphere - a lot of manipulation of the target - awkward manipulation.     

[GrandpaPhil]

For small pieces like that on a plastic model, just paint them on the sprue.

 

It’s quicker and avoids a LOT of frustration.

[Frank Burroughs]

"Revell CSS Alabama 1:96 - set of 434pcs CNC walnut blocks and Clamp of Deadeyes" are what I am staining.

 

Hell, the more I learn the less I know!

I have changed my mind again.  After researching three dyes are needed to mix with alcohol.  Black for deadeyes.  Walnut for standing rig.  And tan for running rig.  Black is black.  Can I dilute the walnut to make tan?  Doubt it.

Before I purchase anything like to make sure this is right.

Where is the best place in USA to purchase small quantities of dyes?

[allanyed]

1 hour ago, Frank Burroughs said:

Can I dilute the walnut to make tan? 

What color is your rigging line now?   Can you post a photo of all these things?   The reason I ask is that in looking on line at photos of contents of the Revell  Alabama kit, and photos of the actual ship the color of the blocks and deadeyes look good as they are.   The running rigging lines look good on photos of the rigged model, but the standing rigging looks almost black rather than dark brown.  

 

And to add to the fun, I found  photos of Alabama that show what appears to be both rope stropped blocks and internally stropped blocks.

 

Allan

 

Edited April 30 by allanyed

[Frank Burroughs]

Revell CSS Alabama 1:96 - set of 11 pcs profesional ropes and chain

[allanyed]

Assuming these materials came in the kit I had no idea Hobbico uses Amati rope in their Revell kits.  Live and learn.  Regarding the tan color for the running rigging, why would you want to stain it as it is already tan?  For the standing rigging I found a color sampling of pine tar that some may find interesting. https://solventfreepaint.com/pine-tar.htm

 

Allan

Edited April 30 by allanyed

[Frank Burroughs]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

Assuming these materials came in the kit

 

nah, bought a few after market parts

 

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

why would you want to stain it

 

new to all this, I have now idea

also, it is a new thing to try

finally, thought stain some of them would reflect the job they are doing

[GrandpaPhil]

For those deadeyes in my Esther build, I used acrylic paint heavily thinned with water.

 

I put them in a throwaway glass dish (which has been reused on multiple builds) and take a largish brush.

 

I dip the brush in the paint and then in my paint water and then apply it to the pieces as an ink (in the same sense as in painting wargaming miniatures).

 

It makes a good staining effect for wood pieces.

 

I will do the same with all of the blocks that I am making now.

 

It is a little messy, but it has always worked well for me.

[Roger Pellett]

There is actually an example of a British built warship from this same era, carefully restored:  HMS Warrior.  She is on display at the Portsmouth Royal Navy Museum.  Pictures of her should be easy to find on the internet.  Look her up.  What color are her blocks.

 

Roger

[Frank Burroughs]

1 minute ago, Roger Pellett said:

HMS Warrior

 

Good call.  Thank you

 

[GrandpaPhil]

Has anyone ever tried dipping wood blocks in tea to stain them?

[allanyed]

Hi Phil

 

Black tea has a slightly low pH so probably not harmful to the wood.    Reading up on its use on wood, I found the following:

 

 Tea can be a safe and natural way to clean wood floors. Black tea contains tannins, which can enhance the wood's color and depth, and add a light, warm "stain" that brings out the wood's natural warm tones. The tannins also naturally clean, enhance, and protect wood

 

Sounds like it might be a good idea but I have no experience with using tea.  Hopefully some other member has some experience with using tea they can share or you can be our pioneer and give it a try😀

Allan

Edited May 3 by allanyed

[Scottish Guy]

1 hour ago, GrandpaPhil said:

Has anyone ever tried dipping wood blocks in tea to stain them?

 

I´ve done it a couple of times (not related to scale models but under different circumstances) also paper (which is somehow also cellulose - somehow wood) for staining it to look old (for bookbinding). It works well and it doesn´t harm the wood or paper in any way at least not that I noticed. I`ve done this for years now and never had any bad experiences with it.

 

Micha