Keith Black Posted May 26 Share #31 Posted May 26 Chris, what is the life expectancy for a paper model? I asked Mr Google but he didn't know diddly. mtaylor, Old Collingwood, Jack12477 and 2 others 5 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 26 Author Share #32 Posted May 26 31 minutes ago, Keith Black said: Chris, what is the life expectancy for a paper model? I remember reading a long time ago that some very early paper models have survived surprisingly long times in museums. As for my models, they will probably survive until I die, but after that all bets are off! GrandpaPhil, Dave_E, Keith Black and 5 others 8 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted May 26 Share #33 Posted May 26 17 minutes ago, ccoyle said: but after that all bets are off Too funny. Egilman, mtaylor, Old Collingwood and 3 others 6 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 28 Author Share #34 Posted May 28 Empennage is done. I can't give this kit high marks for number and quality of diagrams, not for sufficiency of internal structure. I had to muddle through the former and scratch-build some of the latter, but it turned out okay, I think. Keith Black, Egilman, mtaylor and 16 others 19 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandpaPhil Posted May 28 Share #35 Posted May 28 (edited) Looking good! What are you using for the rigging? Edited May 28 by GrandpaPhil mtaylor, Jack12477, Canute and 4 others 7 Quote Building: 1:64 HMS Revenge (Victory Models plans) 1:64 Cat Esther (17th Century Dutch Merchant Ships) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 28 Author Share #36 Posted May 28 10 hours ago, GrandpaPhil said: What are you using for the rigging? EZ-Line GrandpaPhil, mtaylor, Keith Black and 5 others 7 1 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 28 Author Share #37 Posted May 28 Interesting video of a Salmson being readied for flight. I can plainly see some elements that the kit designer got wrong. 😑 realworkingsailor, Egilman, Dave_E and 6 others 9 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 29 Author Share #38 Posted May 29 Bit of a hiccup on the Salmson. The sheet of laser-cut parts for the wings was cut from the wrong thickness of card -- only 0.5 mm instead of 1.0 mm. I suspect the sheet containing the fuselage bulkheads was likewise cut from the wrong thickness, but thickness was less critical for those parts. Anyways, I assembled one wing frame, hoping I could make the thinner parts work, but the resulting structure is very flimsy. So, I made the painful decision to ditch the laser-cut parts and use the printed kit parts after laminating them to some leftover 1.0 mm pulpboard. This means I will now need to cut out 28 parts for the wing frames. Also, because the frame pieces are so narrow in the vertical dimension, cutting out the notches where the parts intersect greatly weakens the pulpboard at that point, so I need to stiffen all of the cut-out parts with thin CA. Depending on how motivated I am, this task may take a few days. Canute, druxey, Jack12477 and 9 others 9 3 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted May 29 Share #39 Posted May 29 If the laser parts are only half thickness, could you order a second set of them and laminate them together (with the laser parts you have) to create the desired 1mm thickness? Andy mtaylor, Canute, Old Collingwood and 3 others 6 Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 29 Author Share #40 Posted May 29 3 minutes ago, realworkingsailor said: f the laser parts are only half thickness, could you order a second set of them and laminate them together (with the laser parts you have) to create the desired 1mm thickness? You could, if A.) you were willing to pay for a new set, B.) the replacement set were also the wrong thickness, and C.) you were willing to wait two weeks or so for the new set to arrive. No, thanks! GrandpaPhil, Old Collingwood, Dave_E and 6 others 9 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted May 29 Share #41 Posted May 29 1 hour ago, ccoyle said: You could, if A.) you were willing to pay for a new set, B.) the replacement set were also the wrong thickness, and C.) you were willing to wait two weeks or so for the new set to arrive. No, thanks! Fair enough! I guess it would be a matter of replacing one headache with another! Andy Canute, ccoyle, Old Collingwood and 5 others 8 Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted May 29 Share #42 Posted May 29 5 hours ago, ccoyle said: Depending on how motivated I am, this task may take a few days. Old school, and I'm sure it will come out fine,... I'm also sure you've done it before... {chuckle} You knew the solution right away.... Just a little more work... I have faith in you... Dave_E, Old Collingwood, mtaylor and 3 others 6 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 29 Author Share #43 Posted May 29 1 hour ago, Egilman said: I'm also sure you've done it before... {chuckle} You knew the solution right away Yes, this is how I had to build all my models back in the days before I discovered laser-cut parts! Happily, pulpboard is far gentler on #11 blades than chipboard (shudder). I was fortunate to have such a large surplus piece of it on hand. Egilman, Dave_E, Jack12477 and 7 others 10 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted May 30 Share #44 Posted May 30 But, if the second set is the correct thickness.... Egilman, Dave_E, Canute and 4 others 4 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 30 Author Share #45 Posted May 30 6 minutes ago, druxey said: But, if the second set is the correct thickness.... . . . then you still have to wait for it to arrive from Poland. 😉 I already have the new parts cut out. Canute, Jack12477, mtaylor and 6 others 9 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 30 Author Share #46 Posted May 30 This came up in my Facebook memories today. It's a Yak-3 built from an Orlik kit. It's one of the very first kits I built with laser-cut formers. A friend of mine back in California has this model. Jay 1, Keith Black, Haliburton and 10 others 13 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 30 Author Share #47 Posted May 30 So, while I'm sitting here killing some time, allow me to share one of the Great Criminal Enterprises in the world of card modeling. Shown below is a screen capture of my shopping cart from an actual publisher/vendor in Poland, who shall go nameless. Pay special attention to the shipping charge. How many models do you think are in my shopping cart? Two. Yes, that is the shipping cost to get two kits (plus frames, wheels, and canopies) shipped from Poland. Which is a shame, because I'm really quite interested in these two particular models (a Swedish J-20, i.e. Reggiane 2000, and a North American Harvard IIB). But I'm not $72.24 interested. Sadly, these two kits are not available at the sites I usually buy from. Card models -- it pays to shop. mtaylor, Javlin, Rik Thistle and 7 others 1 1 4 4 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted May 30 Share #48 Posted May 30 https://www.ebay.com/itm/303785714104?chn=ps&var=603007666121&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1mhE-IVpOS8usi_83uvxtjw98&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=603007666121_303785714104&targetid=&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1019476&poi=&campaignid=20389321416&mkgroupid=&rlsatarget=&abcId=9317280&merchantid=101709775&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD_QDh9MOjmv6Ps_Zm1anHC-d5Z-3&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3MOlxr22hgMVLUb_AR0YrAfUEAQYBCABEgLGVfD_BwE https://plastic-models-store.com/paper-model-kit-fighter-reggiane-re2000-falco-133-orel-291-military-aviatio Canute, Egilman, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 30 Author Share #49 Posted May 30 That's not the same kit, Keith. Thanks for looking, though! EDIT: I'm not terribly enamored of the Italian Eastern Front camo scheme depicted on the Orel kit. I think it looks kinda garish. Moreover, the graphics and level of detail don't look that great, either. I've never built one of Orel's aircraft kits, but I've never been impressed by any of the finished examples I've seen. mtaylor, Keith Black, Canute and 3 others 6 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted May 31 Share #50 Posted May 31 Chris, is WAK the kit manufacture for both the J-2000 and Harvard IIB? Egilman, mtaylor, Dave_E and 2 others 5 Quote Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 31 Author Share #51 Posted May 31 6 hours ago, Keith Black said: Chris, is WAK the kit manufacture for both the J-2000 and Harvard IIB? No. If they were, I probably would have already bought them, cuz WAK has the best shipping rates in the business. No, sadly, they are both published by MSModel. Canute, Dave_E, Keith Black and 2 others 4 1 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted May 31 Share #52 Posted May 31 (edited) Pardon me askin, just WHAT is a J-2000 anyway? It certainly doesn't show up as any aircraft known to man in my internet searches.... AH, you mean the Swedish J-20 ie. the Italian Reggiane 2000 Falco I... Duh... My eyes must be getting bad.... {chuckle} the MSModels website doesn't show either aircraft just two, not the ones your looking for, they make and sell mostly eastern european Railroad and Truck stuff and seem to be switching to resin aftermarket parts on the way to making resin models... Unless I'm looking at the wrong place... Edited May 31 by Egilman Old Collingwood, Canute, Dave_E and 2 others 5 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted May 31 Share #53 Posted May 31 (edited) You mean this one... https://www.ebay.com/itm/303785714104 Of course that is the Orel Kit # 291 Out of the Ukraine... Looks fairly reasonable to me there should be some Swedish 1/33rd scale decals around to build the J-20.... Edited May 31 by Egilman Dave_E, mtaylor, Old Collingwood and 1 other 4 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted May 31 Author Share #54 Posted May 31 1 hour ago, Egilman said: Unless I'm looking at the wrong place... https://www.answer.pl/en/planes/4637-j-20-re2000.html https://www.answer.pl/en/planes/4701-harvard-iib.html Keith Black, Canute, Dave_E and 3 others 5 1 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted June 1 Author Share #55 Posted June 1 Here's a bit of progress on the wings. First I'll give you an idea of the lower wingspan. The Salmson is about half again as wide and half again as long as the diminutive Nieuport 11. The design of each wing structure is not ideal. There are few clues on where to place the internal frames, and though there is a joiner tab in the area of the aileron cutout, no joiner strip is provided for the rest of the wing. Well, that just doesn't cut it for me, so of course I had to add some additional structure from scratch, including a joiner strip and some internal cladding for the frames. Fitting the joiner strip required trimming the ends of the ribs. And here's everything glued together, except for the wingtip. Only three more wings to go! Fitting the lower wings to the fuselage might be tricky. There's a single rib to be added at the inboard end of the wing, but the kit provides precious little guidance on where exactly to glue it. Its location will determine the placement of the wing-to-fuselage joint, and there are no locator marks printed on the fuselage. Hmmmmm. Richard44, yvesvidal, Jack12477 and 13 others 16 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted June 2 Author Share #56 Posted June 2 Playing around with the wing-to-fuselage fit. As I said, there is virtually no guidance in the instructions or diagrams about how this structure should go together. To begin with, I stiffened the bulkhead extensions and then doubled them. Then I added the ribs, both the original 0.5 mm original and its 1.0 mm replacement. The structure is now quite rigid and guides the wing right to where it (hopefully) is supposed to go. And then there's this part: Once again I have no clue about how the upper and lower edges are supposed to be brought together, and wing roots do not seem to have been the focus of any photos found online. So, this structure will be treated as one of those "no one will notice it, so I'm going to guess at it" structures. My plan is to add a fillet to the gap and paint it to match the kit colors. Tune in later to see the result! Canute, realworkingsailor, Old Collingwood and 8 others 11 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted June 3 Author Share #57 Posted June 3 Before and after the fix. Jack12477, GrandpaPhil, yvesvidal and 11 others 14 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted June 3 Share #58 Posted June 3 WAK doesn't seem to be a kit company for the noobies. Keith Black, Dave_E, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoyle Posted June 3 Author Share #59 Posted June 3 Just now, Canute said: WAK doesn't seem to be a kit company for the noobies. This is more of an example of shopping by designer rather than by publisher. As loyal readers may recall, some publishers print the work of multiple designers, so the name of the publisher is not always a reliable indicator of kit quality. There are exceptions, of course -- Pawel over at Kartonowa Kolekcja only publishes his own work, at least for aircraft (I'm not familiar with any of KK's ship or armor designs), and his designs are always top-shelf. But WAK is a mixed bag. Interestingly, this kit is advertised as "suitable for beginners," but it's another 'beginner's kit' that would've stumped me as a beginner. This kit also illustrates the fact that one designer's work can show up under multiple publishers. The same designer of this kit also designed the Hawker Nimrod kit from Answer that is in my stash. Needless to say, I'm not as enthusiastic about that kit as I once was. 😑 On the other hand, at least one of the other WAK kits I have in my stash is designed by Lukas Fuczek, whose kits have not always been easy to build, but they are definitely detailed and have nice graphics; the two of Lukas' kits that I have finished were published by Orlik. Ryland Craze, Egilman, Canute and 5 others 7 1 Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Bf 109E-7/trop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsk Posted June 3 Share #60 Posted June 3 Huh. That wing root cutout seems to be a rather obvious flaw. Still the plane is coming together well. Jack12477, Canute, mtaylor and 3 others 6 Quote --jeff In Process: Skipjack Kathryn 1/72 Card (scratch build) Completed Builds: Slavic (Viking) Longship 1/72 (Falconet), US Revenue Cutter 1/72 Card (Seahorse), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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