Help identifying anything about this ship?

[tula]

The attached photo is of a ship in the background of an early 19th-century portrait either produced in Spain or possibly the New World. 
I know more about paintings than ships and identifying anything specific about the rigging has been difficult...not only because some areas appear to be generalizations and others appear to have been abraded.  
So far I've gathered that this could be considered something like a brig or maybe a brigatine or topsail schooner? Any small detail or thought could be of significance to the origin of the painting. Ignore the thin red pennant, it's a restoration. The original is underneath and appears to be shorter, wider, and with three stripes. 
Any thoughts on this ship will be greatly appreciated!
 

[ccoyle]

Welcome, Tula!

 

The rig is a double-topsail schooner. The artist appears to have had at least some knowledge of ship construction, although, at least to my eye, the hull is very crude in comparison to the rigging. This would have been a very common type of ship on both sides of the Atlantic during the time period you mention. That's about all I can add to the conversation.

[Jim Lad]

And although not painted in detail, that appears to be a Spanish ensign that she's flying.

 

John

[Lieste]

Though both the (suspiciously small) ensign and the pennant look to be streaming the wrong way for the rest of the rig.

[Cristiano]

Are you sure that the ship belong to Spain or new world?

to me it seems an Austro-hungaric flag: the flag colour seems more Red/white than red/yellow...

like that type of ship portrait (just an example, it is not the same ship)

In anycase, it is rather impossible to identify the ship: too small in terms of size and too common in that historical period.

In addition, to me the painting appears a ship portrait, so usually it was the only visual information existent about a ship.

 

 

 

Edited September 24 by Cristiano

[wefalck]

To me it appears like a Spanish commercial schooner from somewhere around the 1830s to the 1840s, Although the according to Norie & Hobbs (1848) the merchant flag at that time should have had several red and yellow stripes (see https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/J._W_Norie_and_J._S._Hobbs_-_Three_hundred_and_six_illustrations_of_the_maritime_flags_of_all_nations_(1848).pdf). I didn't check, whether any of the Spanish colonies of that time used the red-yellow-re ensign.

[Gregory]

On 9/24/2024 at 4:36 AM, Cristiano said:

...the flag colour seems more Red/white than red/yellow...

Looks that way to me also.

[wefalck]

I have done a bit of colour adjustment in Photoshop to get rid of the yellow tint and the murkiness:

I think the flag looks red-yellow-red ...

 

Edited September 28 by wefalck

[amateur]

Yes, but on the spanish flag, the red stripes are only half of the width of the yellow band. Here it is painted in three equally wide bands….

Identufying the ship is completely impossible, unless it is a ship that has something to do with the main object of the painting (not uncommon in the Dutch paintings of merchants and commanders: all (or some of) their ships are present in the background) 

Jan

[mtaylor]

On 9/23/2024 at 3:21 PM, Lieste said:

Though both the (suspiciously small) ensign and the pennant look to be streaming the wrong way for the rest of the rig.

That seems to be a common error by many painters and artists and also many model ship builders.

[tula]

Sorry @Gregory and @Cristiano, the flag is likely Spanish! I should have mentioned, the sitter's name is inscribed in the corner of the portrait and is definitely Spanish, not Austrian. The sitter is gesturing to this ship and is sitting at a table with a sextant, compass, and (seemingly) generic map. I searched each of his family names in various online genealogical databases with no results, so I think I will need more detail as to his geographic origin before narrowing down any physical archives that may contain record of his life...or his ship. 

 

I assumed the date of early 1800s (likely 1810-20) because of the sitter's clothing- men's fashion at the time was becoming homogenized on both sides of the Atlantic and the trend cycle was moving faster than in previous decades, allowing for a more narrow window of dates. But if the ship really does look like something from the 1830s-40s @wefalck...I suppose he could either be terribly out of fashion or certain details were painted or restored inaccurately. 

 

I appreciate you all for your thoughts and assistance!! Even knowing that this type of ship is rather common in this period helps my search, so thank you! 

[wefalck]

Sorry, but what 'sitter' are you talking about? Is the ship part of a larger picture that you didn't show?

[Altduck]

7 minutes ago, wefalck said:

Sorry, but what 'sitter' are you talking about? Is the ship part of a larger picture that you didn't show?

From Post #1, The attached photo is of a ship in the background of an early 19th-century portrait either produced in Spain or possibly the New World. 

[wefalck]

Would you mind showing the whole painting? This may give more clues ...