Using AI for for making STL files for 3D printing...things are getting better every day.

[Chuck]

Now I am not a CAD guy at all.  I know enough to be dangerous but really cant design a part to save my life.  But thanks to the new idiot proof tools and software out there it really is easy as can be these days.  Many are free and if they are not it really isnt expensive to use.

 

So using really common software that folks are very familiar with one can create excellent 3D objects for a ship model, even somewhat complex carving.   I will start with a rather simple 3D part.  I need to redo my carving set for the Queen Barge.   Its Acanthus leaf carvings are too difficult to carve as many of you know.   I included Boxwood blanks to do just that in the kit along with resin cast versions.  

 

 

Those castings were done the old fashioned way and not 3d printed.   So rather than hire someone to make them with CAD expertise (because I cant CAD, LOL)  Here is a good, almost perfect way to accomplish the same thing.  These tools cant be used for everything just yet but it gets better every day.

 

First my original wood carving.   Have a really good photo at hand.  It is important to remove the background from these to isolate just the carving.   A white background works well but a darker background works just as well for light colored objects.  This method works best for bas relief carvings but has reasonable success for fully in the round sculptures.  Here is one element of the three part carvings for my barge.  I did these by hand.  

 

Now think about this for a minute....If you can manage really good photos taken of any contemporary model of the carvings, and remove the background it will work great too.  

 

Then sign up at Meshy.ai

 

You can use the free tools available but it isnt expensive to sign up for the upgraded tools.   They have a new "Meshy 6" version that takes images and converts them to 3d files.  Now 6 months agao this didnt work nearly as well.   For some things it still doesnt.   But I think the results will pass for most model builders.

 

The real secret is removing the background and the extra noise that will really screw with the AI brain...LOL  You cant just crop that first photo of the model and upload it into Meshy.  It wont know what to do with the background.  You must isolate the carving as good as you can.

 

Here is the meshy workspace.  You can select to describe what you want with text (not the best option for specific carving on your model or other features.   Best to go with the image to 3D option.   Meshy version 6 doesnt have the option to use multiple images yet for a one part.  But how often do we have multiple images of a carving or part at different angles.   Sometimes it is just not easy to get those.   So one photo will work and actually has better results as what other images of this carving would you need.  So select the Cone or red "image to 3d option.

 

 

Drag in your image and upload it.  In my case that single carving.  Dont worry about the other setting if this is your first time.   After uploading your image simply click generate.

 

In about 45 seconds you can see what the program created.   This can be downloaded as n stl file and its ready for 3D printing...Or if you are a little dangerous, you can upload this file into any free CAD program and tweak it further.   If you dont love what the AI did on this first attempt, the program lets you try again another 4 times on this project to create another slightly different rendition.

 

Here is the slightly different rendition after asking it to retry.  Yes it is not perfect but absolutely useable and you would be surprised how good some of them actually turn out.

 

 

Now I cant emphasize enough how important it is to isolate what you want them to model.  You must erase the background or paint the background away in photoshop.  To show you how important this is. I have taken one of my photos of the contemporary model for Minerva....the trailboard carving.   This is a hard one for the AI as the bird doesnt have a face, LOL.  I was curious what would it do.  Also the serpent has a face that may not be to easy for it to figure out.   But I mostly want to show you how important it is to remove the background.

 

 

Being lazy I did a half -ass background removable....its not even and not the same color etc.  You can see where I left a lot with jagged edges.

 

 

Brought into a slicer you can see how it did....not bad but not good either.

 

 

A little better clean up of the background on the original image.  Better.

 

 

After tweaking the contrast and brightness of the original image of the carving...remember this is a bizarre image of a bird with a flower for a head.    And the serpant head wasnt super clear in the original carving.   But I wanted to show this exercise to demonstrate that it really is super important to have a good original image.   You must get rid of the background noise.  Adjust the contrast and stuff so the details can be seen better if AI could actually see.  I dont know.

 

 

So dont be discouraged if you can do CAD....I cant but this gets you pretty close.   You can tweak these or what the hay...use them as is and 3D print them.   Its a lot better than most can carve from boxwood and it takes only as much time as you want to devote to your original images.

 

But this is a good starting point for the discussion....

 

To continue.....no need for it to be a photograph.  You can do excellent work with a good line drawing as well.   If your plans have good drawings of the carvings you can use them.

 

 

Run through Meshy....

Here are the results.  You can of course adjust the thickness and level of relief.  You can also manipulate this in other free programs like TnkerCAD to make a pretty convincing gun port wreath.   But this was just an experiment to show you folks the possibilities.   

 

 

Chuck

 

 

 

[Pirate adam]

Chuck,

 

I actually looked into AI for STl files after reading one of your other posts a few days ago.  It seems there is almost no end to what is possible with really sharp pictures from the historic (or modern) models. Another thing that is becoming commonly available is handheld 3D scanners. Even huge things are now being scanned with LIDAR scanners. Of course this requires more access than most of us will ever have but I can see the museums being open to scanning things over time for archival purposes. 
 

I used to have second thoughts about the role of 3D printing stuff like carvings and small parts, but I have really come around to the benefit of allowing those of us that are pretty crafty but not necessarily artistic to take on models of almost any subject. I think it is an amazing enabler for the hobby. I love what you are doing.  
 

Adam

[Chuck]

That is exactly why I am taking the time to add as much info here as possible within reason to help motivate folks.  Dont be intimidated.   Give it a try.   I am always amazed by how few models from a Seawatch book are actually made from scratch.   All of the info is there but when people see the carvings they just say...no way.   If you want to take the time to embrace the technology you can absolutely build those beautifully designed models.   Like the Pegasus for example.

 

Now the downside to this is of course the ease that someone can rip off somebody's work.   And yes that will probably happen with increased frequency now.  But hopefully I am just being negative and there are more hinest people out there than dishonest.   But yes this opens up so many possibilities.

 

The scanners arent needed really.  They are getting better and cheaper for larger objects but if you have a small object (ship model parts are tiny) they really dont work well at all.   Unless you have an object 10 times the 1/4" scale version you are out of luck with scanners.

 

But photos and drawings work really well now if you are willing to be satisfied with the small peculiar details the AI adds to a model.  But give it another six months and it will be even better.  The programs are improving that quick.

 

Chuck

[shauer]

I feel like I've been living under a rock.

 

This is very enlightening, never considered this as an option.  I'm definitively in the camp of having a full library of books with great pictures / illustrations but have always been intimidated by anything with a carving.

 

Thanks for sharing this Chuck!  I'm feeling the need to order a resin printer to set next to my FDM printer.

 

Steve

[Chuck]

Continuing the conversation...a more complex carving

Using drawings...I really hate how easy it has become to steal stuff but it doesnt take a rocket surgeon to figure this stuff out.  If you are using it for your own model its fine.  It is just another tool.  If you use it for commercial purposes then its not cool at all.

 

 

Here is my drawing, a very bad one done for one of the speedwell transom carvings.  It is right from my plans.  So if you have decent plans for your model....you are good to go.  If you can draw even better.   All you need is a good line drawing.

 

 

Plugging this rather doodle like drawing I made into Meshy.  I wanted to show you what a line drawing would turn into.   Or from a plan drawing.  

 

You get this.  I couldnt carve this.   You can adjust the relief thickness in other programs as well.

 

If you are curious and ask it to try again....you get another version...can you spot the AI weirdness.  I m not saying it is perfect yet.  But I couldnt come close to carving this thing.  And certainly not in 45 seconds.  By the way I paid a CAD guy to create mine and this figure or any one figure like this would cost me $250 to $300 to have done.  I feel sorry for those guys in the next few years as the programs get better and better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gregory]

Oh wow!  Meshy, here I come!

[Jim Lad]

This is amazing stuff, Chuck. Thank you for giving us such a comprehensive tutorial.

 

John

[Chuck]

There are actually more possibilities.  There is free software out there that takes a 3d in the round stl file and converts it to a relief.  That is the next installment.  
 

You see,  what happens when you ask AI to make a sculpture from a drawing or photo doesnt always result in a bas relief carving. 
 

It will generate a fully in-the-round sculpture.  For these you have one additional step.  You must take that fully 3d sculpture and convert it to a relief.  
 

I wasnt taught any of this.  I was just curious and started doing online searches for different techniques.  

Just search google “3D file to bas relief”.

 

There is so much out there from folks more knowledgeable than me.  
 

There are so many Yourube videos.  A lot of them show software you must pay for though so be sure to add   “Free” in search.  Or

you can try and get all your sculpture done during the free trials for the software then cancel them.  A lot of folks do

that but its not really nice as everyone needs to earn a living.

 

 

 

[glbarlow]

I looked on Amazon to find many and a wide variation of 3D printers. Thoughts and suggestions for a good, easy to use,  one to make ship model sized parts?

[TJM]

Wow! This is fantastic! I have tried to do this with various apps, also the free version of Meshy, but were not able to get anything useful. 

 

I will definitely dive into this again! In any case it is just a question of (short) time before this will be possible from even worse reference materiel. 

 

Thank yo so much for exploring this and posting it here!

Edited 22 hours ago by TJM

[TJM]

6 hours ago, glbarlow said:

I looked on Amazon to find many and a wide variation of 3D printers. Thoughts and suggestions for a good, easy to use,  one to make ship model sized parts?

I have an Elegoo Mars 4 DLP. Small, but good enough for most parts we are interested in. And since it is a projector, as opposed to a LCD, I don't destroy the printer if I have a resin spill. But beware of the safety aspect of resin printing and the need for a dedicated space with good ventilation and room temperature!

[Chuck]

I am using an Elegoo Saturn 3.   Like everything else,  as soon as you buy one they will come out with a new version.  I believe they are up to Saturn 4 Ultra now.  But most of the printers are excellent these days.  It just depends on how large a printing area you need.  If its strictly for ship model parts then you dont have to go big.  
 

last I checked the Saturn 3 was around $300 more or less depending on if it was on sale or not.
 

I have 3 of these machines right now all the same so I can interchange spare parts.  I probably need a fourth.  
 

 

But one is all you will need.  
 

I do have a wash station but never use it because our parts are too tiny.  So I use the 2 and 3 container method with IPA.  This will be described in my group forum for printing the capstan parts.  
 

Its a lot like buying an ink jet printer…the printers arent that expensive but they get you on buying the resin.

 

You can buy a bottle of resin for $18 or you can spend $100.  They all print differently and its a matter of picking the brand and type you need based on your application.  
 

For example,  my general resin cost about $20 per.   My belaying pin and small part resin cost $38 per.  My block resin is pushing $95 per.  
 

Luckily you get a lot of blocks out of one bottle.  
 

90% Alcohol is also not bad depending on how much you print.  I print a lot.  So I buy 4 gallons at a time every 6 weeks or so.   But seriously if you are just printing stuff for your own model then one gallon will last a while.

 

Chuck

[Chuck]

Let me finish up this mini tutorial.   And its really just an introduction.    You guys can play with the software because there are all kinds of effect you get.

 

So as I mentioned, you can take a drawing or photo into Meshy and it will create a really good AI generated 3D object from it.

 

I am using my syren logo for this exercise. 

 

 

Uploading to meshy will create something like this....The final product I am looking for is a bas relief or medium relief sculpture and not a full in the round sculpture.   But Meshy will almost always give you a fully developed sculpture.  I mean its pretty cool on it own but I do need a relief insted.

 

 

This means you will need to use another software.   These are harder to find for free but they are cheap or have a 7 day trial.  So you can do what you prefer.  I use RELIEF MAKER.

 

I think Relief Maker is the best out there for its results.   You do get a free 7 day trial but its also nice because you can sign up for just one month as well or 3 months.   I think its like $12 for a month.

 

You basically take your 3d STL file and upload it into RM.   You can adjust for depth and a bunch of other features.  Then click generate.   It will convert it into a nice relief.   Then you can export it.   But make sure you select the option to download only the foreground or the relief carving.  This program lets you create whole relief scenes with a background on a flat field.   I dont want the background and oly want the relief carving.

 

Again you dont have to know CAD or even be tech wiz here.  You upload and then hit "generate".   45 seconds later you have a relief you can download.  It is not scary.

 

 

In the image below taken as a screen shot in Chitbox (your 3D printer slicing software)  you can see both the fully developed sculpture and the relief made with the extra Relief Maker step.

 

 

 

So that is it for this introduction and mini tutorial.   I hope at a minimum it removes and fear and trepidation into trying to make your own carvings.   I believe that once you start screwing around with these software sites and AI creations you will get more comfortable using them.   Trying to learn CAD is a tough long road and you still cant do a lot of things like this.   You will still need to know CAD to make some of the crazy fittings and parts...but this takes care of a lot of them and the carvings.   A figurehead needs a few other steps and some knowledge...you have to create the slot for the knee for example.  No AI is going to do this correctly.  At least not yet.   

 

My next mini tutorial will be using another free program to make some fittings.   I will use TinkerCad to make some cool stuff in an simplistic fashion with convincing results.

 

This internally strapped block for example was made entirely in Tinkercad and Inkscape.   Two free programs.  Then you can 3D print them.

 

 

 

 

[Chuck]

And one final thought....As good as these AI 3D programs are, they do need to get better still.  But it is happening quickly.   So try again in 3 months or 6 months and your results will be even better.

 

Let me give you another example to illustrate the funky and sometimes amusing results you get.  Maybe its not something that bothers you and the quirky things that AI thinks up will be fine with you and for your model.

 

So let s take an image....a drawing really of a naval officer.  I dont remember where I got this one.   I think its an American Revolutionary war navy Admiral.

 

 

 

Stick this in Meshy as described.

 

This is what was made by the AI mind...its pretty good you say.  Yes you can nit pick it from this view but essentially it looks pretty good and would be passible after painting.

 

 

BUT...OK dont laugh now.   Let me rotate this beauty so you can see it from another view.  See the issue.  Its actually pretty funny.  That is a lovely hat!!!! Among other things.

 

 

Now if you do know CAD, that is great because you will need to take this into Blender or something and do some CAD sculpting and correcting.   But yes it is a pretty good starting point.  Or maybe you just wont care since your family and neighbors wont know the difference when they see this on your model all painted up.   My advice....find a drawing or image of an officer without hat to start with, LOL.  There are just always some details it almost always never gets correct ....not even close.

 

When Meshy 6 comes out with the ability to use multiple images for each attempt it will get better.  Especially if you have 3 views ...FRONT  Side and Back.

 

Chuck

 

 

 

 

[BritByker]

Being Devil's Advocate here - at what point do we quit modeling altogether and just make scale 3D prints of ships/models?  

Edited 16 hours ago by BritByker

[Chuck]

And lastly....A little fun.

 

These 3D AI programs also have a text option.  Meaning you can type in text to describe what you want it to model in 3D.   One day while practicing with this stuff I got frustrated and I was very tired.   So just for giggles, I used the text feature.  Now keep in mind that there are no photos of me on the web or even on my computer.   But the key to using this AI text to 3D model feature is to be very descrptive.

 

So I typed in...

 

Make me a standing figure of a Caucasian ship modeler who is mildly overweight and 60 years old with a greying GoatT wearing sweat pants and a gray zipper hoodie and a Beige baseball cap wearing glasses. 

 

It is sorcery I tell you.   SORCERY.   I will just leave it at that.   For those of you who have met me or know me.   Really I am trying to lose a few pounds!!!  Scary scary stuff. WTF!!!

 

[Chuck]

14 minutes ago, BritByker said:

Being Devil's Advocate here - at what point do we quit modeling altogether and just make scale 3D prints of ships/models? 

Fair point but this is really no different than building any kit with what comes in the box.  No difference.  Except this time the carvings and items are not white metal heavy blobs.  You are just improving and bashing.  Having said that...to make the things that are very difficult for the average and even experienced builder is OK.  But if you prefer to fully scratch build, that is even better and more rewarding.   It just depends on what you prefer and enjoy.  I mean this is just a hobby after all....for most of us.   

 

But yes I do enjoy carving from a block of boxwood too and actually dont mind doing that.  But I will also admit I cant do it as good as my AI buddy....or the CAD guy I hired.  LOL.   

 

"There is no such thing as Bad ART"

 

I wish I had bought that Warhol painting of Soup Cans before ......and had it hanging on my wall.  To each his own.

 

Chuck

[brunnels]

Another option for Bas reliefs that I have been using is the basify add-on in blender.  Blender and the addon are both free, blender does have a bit of a learning curve, but it's a very powerful software that can be very useful, I'm already using it for all sorts of things on my models.  I have tried a couple of these AI generators and the quality of their output usually depends on the quality of what you input from my experience.

[Chuck]

Yes that is very true also.  But there are really some excellent advancements being made recently.

 

One more example because you are correct it is all about what you put into these generators.  Garbage in and garbage out.  So you need to change your thinking a bit.   

 

I used the text to 3D method for this one.  And how many people would have have thought to ask it this question....see my text entered on the top left side?  I wouldnt know where to begin to create this in CAD from scratch.   Way too complex for me.

 

And what do you think this object will be turned into for me with a little editing so I can sell it to you guys.  If the resulting prints prove effective.  Ten points to whoever can tell me what this will end up being!!

 

Just guess?

 

The surface quality is excellent by the way.

 

 

[sheepsail]

May be the best use of AI yet.   I keep telling others that AI is like making a wax mold of an item.  Lots of detail on the outside, but when you slice it apart the inside is empty.

 

Now if AI could just tell me what material headerboards were made of (metal or wood.) and if wood was the wood pressed in a steam mold?  Laminated? Since the boards are the same on all the ships?

 

Ironically I could put the photographs from my question in the deck fittings topic.  AI would then make me a header board with the design in relief.    Of course I could do the same in lightburn tracing over the design after using the stupid 'apple preview' AI which keeps trying to enhance and remove the backgrounds of my photos.

 

-julie

[druxey]

It must be a pear mouse, not an Apple one!

[BritByker]

It's funny how if you don't show AI what the back side of something looks like, then it just starts making up whimsical stuff...  But as they say, garbage in, garbage out...

[Chuck]

24 minutes ago, druxey said:

It must be a pear mouse, not an Apple one!

Yes that was the plan... I havent printed them yet as a test.  I have so many ship model parts not yet tested.  Gold Star for Druxey!!!!

 

[TJM]

This is truly an incredible leap that has hapened in the last few moths with the latest AI models. 

 

I tried a few examples of using original construction drawings to get figurehead stl's and I am blown away. 

 

Heres a 'standard' lion:

 

To me this is crazy! All I did was take 5 min in photohop to remove everything from the drawing that was not part of the lion, fed it to meshy and voila!

 

And here is a non-symmetrical one where it had to extrapolate the left side:

You can see that there is not really much to go for in terms of detail, especially in the face of the cupid, but look what I got from the model:

 

For a 3 cm tall figure, this is going to be all fine.

 

Basically, this was the last big nut to crack for me in my effort to design ships from the original plans. Lot's of learning and experience still to go, but the tools are here now.

 

I am really amazed. Thank you chuck, for pointing out that AI have come to this point now! 

 

BR

TJM

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by TJM

[Chuck]

That is wonderful.  The lion looks great.  Can you upload that stl here in this topic.  I would like to examine it.  I could just feed the same Drawing into meshy but I dont want to lill any more trees…as my kids keep reminding me.

 

chuck