augie Posted February 1, 2015 Share #61 Posted February 1, 2015 I'm not even sure what you call it but the joinery looks terrific. This is downright exciting. Stuntflyer 1 Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted February 1, 2015 Share #62 Posted February 1, 2015 I love where you're going with this project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share #63 Posted February 1, 2015 David, pull up a chair, but, it's a S L O W process though - hope you don't get bored easily Thanks Augie and Frolick! I promise there is a method to my madness. Really... There is.... I swear.... augie, dgbot and mtaylor 3 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share #64 Posted February 7, 2015 Here is a completed frame ready for final trimming and sanding. Here you can see all those miter joints sticking out, and what they look like after being trimmed and sanded. The "alligator skin look" is kind'a strange I know, I hope now that some are trimmed down the shape of the frames are starting to show. I wet the joints so they show up a little better... rafine, fatih79, kees de mol and 11 others 14 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted February 7, 2015 Share #65 Posted February 7, 2015 That last shot is the golden ticket. It reveals all that's gone on to get to this point. Beautiful! cookster 1 Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafine Posted February 7, 2015 Share #66 Posted February 7, 2015 Until I saw the photos with your hands on the frames, it didn't really hit me just how big this model is going to be. It's coming along great. Bob Quote Current builds on MSW: HMS Winchelsea 1:48: Medway Longboat 1:24 Prior builds on MSW: Schooner Halifax: Lumberyard 1/48 semi-scratch; Cutter Cheerful 1:48; Granado: Caldercraft 1:64; Frigate Essex: Kitbashed Model Shipways kit; Triton Cross Section 1:48; Kingfisher from Lauckstreet kit; Syren: Model shipways kit ;Kitbashed Fair American: Model Shipways;Prince de Neufchatel: Model shipways 1:64 Civil War Picket Boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share #67 Posted February 7, 2015 Bob, she's got some size to her for sure.... I wanted a larger model for lots of reasons and that;s what I got! Now that the top timbers are going on I will take another overall shot to show the scale. Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobbsie Posted February 9, 2015 Share #68 Posted February 9, 2015 The frames are coming along nicely Wes, nice to see some trimmed up. It would be interesting to know the overall dimensions of the completed build, she gonna be huge. Keep it up mate. Be Good mobbsie Quote mobbsie All mistakes are deliberate ( me ) Current Build:- HMS Schooner Pickle Completed Builds :- Panart 1/16 Armed Launch / Pinnace ( Completed ), Granado Cross Section 1/48 Harwich Bawley, Restoration, Thames Barge Edme, Repair / Restoration, Will Everard 1/67 Billings HMS Agamemnon 1781 - 1/64 Caldercraft Kit, HM Brig Badger, HM Bomb Vessel Granado, Thames Steam Launch Louise, Thames Barge Edme, Viking Dragon Boat Next Build :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share #69 Posted February 13, 2015 Thanks Mobbsie She's right at 4 feet long (1219 mm), including the bowsprit. Widest point of the hull is 9 inches (228 mm). I haven'y done anything with rigging yet, so I have no idea yet of the mast height or spar width. I need to try and sweet talk Bob (rafine) into making a masting/rigging list for Essex.... I love his build and his rigging is 1st rate! mobbsie, mtaylor, augie and 1 other 4 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share #70 Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Hi all, quick update. I have some construction photos but I'll post them later this weekend after some more more progress. I can finally show my dwg. It's not finished but is far enough along now where you can definitely tell where I'm headed. My latest efforts have been focused on some nagging details, especially the quarterdeck and forecastle deck port locations. Or more correctly for my 1814 time period, the spar deck. (The quarterdeck and forecastle were joined into one continuous deck with the forecastle deck raised slightly, and upper bullwarks installed in the 1808-09 rebuild). I also finally started drawing the channels, deadeyes and shrouds to check gunport clearance. After all the changes, mistakes, and revisions I've had to make it's starting to all come together on paper, and most everything fits the source drawings. Sometimes I have to "interpret" things, and that makes me nervous, but when cross checking my various source drawings if they all mostly agree that's the best I can hope to achieve. The spar deck ports have been difficult to determine, as there are conflicting sources on there number and placement. Baker's sail plan of 1808-9 shows 6 ports on the quarterdeck, with 1 still fouling a mizzen stay. She was originally built with 5 ports, but that was changed and is indeed a documented fact (yeah for proof !). Josiah Fox and Portia Takakjian both say there were 7 ports but I could find no source to show their placement. I was starting to worry and doubt myself so I reached out to USS Frolick and he pointed me right to the data in "The Frigate Essex Papers", that was right under my nose the whole time! So after feeling stupid for a bit I was able to move forward with confidence. I'm primarily using "The Frigate Essex Papers" and "Anatomy of the Ship Essex" and the drawings contained in both volumes as my research material. I just ordered Chappelle's "History of the American Sailing Navy" and Lees "Masting and Rigging". I've also read through Goodwin's "English Man of War", Longridge's Victory book and Ed Tosti's "Niaid Volume 1". All have provided lots of info and knowledge. I also must again thank USS Frolic (Steve) here on MSW for his invaluable help on details and research! With his help and knowledge I feel like my efforts will result in a somewhat accurate 1814 Essex. Next on my research list is her 1814 armament, Steve is also helping me with that. I'm going to order a couple carronades and long guns soon that I think will work to see if they fit the bill. One last bit of housekeeping, I'm going to go back and edit my first post to show my research details and such, I was waiting until I got far enough along to be knowledgeable enough to do so. Most, if not all, the logs I've seen by the folks who really know what they're doing do this. I should probably copy them on that. Thanks again for the comments and for looking in! Edited March 6, 2015 by cookster uss frolick, rafine, hexnut and 2 others 5 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share #71 Posted March 7, 2015 Here's a coupe overall pics. It still looks like alligator skin, and I realize most of you still can see where this is going - but it is coming together. All the frames without gunports are done, I'm now working on the frames that extend into the gunports. My method for those is also a little different (imagine that!) but I think accuracy will be the easiest to obtain the way I plan to do it. Basically I'm making the frames long (extend into the gunport), then will come back and trim them to length once everything is fair. After that I'll make the gunport header and frame extensions as a separate piece, fit it, and fair it. Also keep in mind the top of the plywood bulkheads is not the gundeck level, the gundeck will sit above the bulkheads on spacers. BTW, if there was a contest for most cluttered workshop, I'd be in the running. augie, tarbrush, fatih79 and 9 others 12 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share #72 Posted March 15, 2015 I finally hit a milestone today! All the square frames are made (but not completed yet), and I finally got the deck support platform (not really a false deck) cut and fit. This platform has dados on it's underside that locks the frames in square, sets the frame spacing, provides the base to attach the gundeck supports (yet to be made) and clamps the frames to the canter bulkhead with screws. Glue will be added much later. I can take this assembly apart at will while fairing the frames, etc. Now to finish rough cutting and rough fairing the frames, and to figure out how I'm going to handle the front cant frames.... tarbrush, fatih79, Geoff Matson and 7 others 10 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted March 15, 2015 Share #73 Posted March 15, 2015 Cheers . Can't wait to see how you handle the cant frames. I have enough trouble building things that are (almost) straight! cookster, mobbsie and Stuntflyer 3 Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share #74 Posted March 30, 2015 Time for a quick update. First, been a while since I said it but thanks again for all the likes and for looking in. I know this build is very slow and unusual, I hope one day this all pays off. I'm currently cutting and rough fairing the frames and also planning how to handle the forward cant frames. As usual it's a tad bit different.... pics hexnut, rafine, dgbot and 8 others 11 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobbsie Posted March 30, 2015 Share #75 Posted March 30, 2015 It's slowly coming together Wes, carry on taking your time mate, it's working and looking real good. Be Good mobbsie cookster 1 Quote mobbsie All mistakes are deliberate ( me ) Current Build:- HMS Schooner Pickle Completed Builds :- Panart 1/16 Armed Launch / Pinnace ( Completed ), Granado Cross Section 1/48 Harwich Bawley, Restoration, Thames Barge Edme, Repair / Restoration, Will Everard 1/67 Billings HMS Agamemnon 1781 - 1/64 Caldercraft Kit, HM Brig Badger, HM Bomb Vessel Granado, Thames Steam Launch Louise, Thames Barge Edme, Viking Dragon Boat Next Build :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the learner Posted March 30, 2015 Share #76 Posted March 30, 2015 Yes a very interesting method of doing POB construction, once completed it will appear as POF, I will definately be watching your fantastic build sir! cookster 1 Quote Cheers, GuyThe LearnerCurrent Member NRG,SMA Current Build: HMS Triton 1:48 on line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share #77 Posted April 17, 2015 Few pics of where I'm at today, almost have all the square frames done minus several gunport frames, on the outside face. Still have to cut and fair the inside face. See, there really was a ship's hull underneath there.... dgbot, GrandpaPhil, mtaylor and 5 others 8 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted April 18, 2015 Author Share #78 Posted April 18, 2015 It's been a while since I posted any how I do stuff on this build since there has't been much new going on. Mostly fit, sand, check, sand again and so on. I have taken a bunch of pictures just haven't posted them. I'll go ahead and show cutting the frames for gunport sills. These are some of the trickiest cuts to get right, if I screw up these cuts my gun ports won't be fair and that will bother me a lot. These cuts have to be in line with each other (same height port and starboard), parallel with the keel, and some of them angle with the sheer of the deck. For now I'm only cutting out a few gunport frames, I'll call them "control frames". They're at the ends and middle of the hull so I can double check the remaining ports sills with my frame patterns. I'm checking the fairness of the sills as I go and everything seems OK so far. To cut the gunport frame at the correct height and angle I'm using my table saw. Since I still don't have a Byrnes saw or disk sander, this is the most accurate method I have. I built a sled the frame rides in, and the saw fence sets the distance from the blade. I angle the saw blade, make a test cut, and use a dwg of the angle to double check the blade tilt before making the final cuts. On my frame patterns I have marked the sills, headers, and other needed info. When cutting to the line, I cut long and then come back and trim. To get somewhat accurate amounts of "trim", once I get close to the needed line I use styrene sheets of various thicknesses to get to the final cut. I don't move the fence, I add shims. With the shims I can adjust down to .005" with this method, here I'm using a .030 sheet to get to the final cut line. fatih79, GrandpaPhil, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted April 18, 2015 Share #79 Posted April 18, 2015 I like the idea of cutting the fore, aft and midship ports to aid in the alignment of the others. mtaylor and cookster 2 Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share #80 Posted April 26, 2015 Augie, thanks for correcting my nautical terms. Aye-aye, midships it is. Here's where we are today. All the square frames (except several gunport frames as previously described) are cut and rough faired on the outer face. On to the rest of the gunport frames now. Darn hull is so big it's hard to photograph. I hope these pics give you an idea of what she looks like/will look like. Here's a close up of some of the gunports roughed out, here you can see fillers, spacers, extra blocks and such I've added while fairing. Starting to come together I think. Getting the rest of the gunport frames in and adding a few battens should hopefully show her lines. Now one final thing, sanding the plywood bulkheads on the planked side is really difficult. That plywood I bought is tough! Eats 60 grit paper like candy. So, now that I've reached the areas where a lot of beveling are required (which I've been doing all by hand so far) I'm grabbing this puppy. Yes,, Yes, I know the risk, I recommend you DON'T try this at home unless you really know what you're doing. Oh, and I hope Augie doesn't pass out when he sees this! GrandpaPhil, jwvolz, fatih79 and 4 others 7 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted April 26, 2015 Share #81 Posted April 26, 2015 Hard work is really paying off. As anticipated, there's only one thing that scares me more than pneumatic tools around a ship model ...... and that's when I see the numbers 59, 60, 61 ad infinitum penciled in. mtaylor 1 Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share #82 Posted April 26, 2015 Numbers? OK, guess that comment went over my head... Ships' Cat Augie, I can report the shaping task using the grinder came off fine. What would've took me an hour by hand took at most 10 minutes. Love me some power tools.... (insert Tim Allen grunt here) uss frolick, dgbot and mtaylor 3 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted April 26, 2015 Share #83 Posted April 26, 2015 Nice work, Wes. It's scary using power tools on a hull.. I used an electric variable speed drill on mine... I had to replace a few frames but it fast. I think the numbers Augie referred to are the frame numbers. I think in a previous life, he was a shipbuilder who had to build all the frames. :D cookster and augie 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Wellington Posted April 26, 2015 Share #84 Posted April 26, 2015 Wes, sadly I'd missed your build up to this now, however, I'll be correcting that! Congrats on taking on such a challenging and I'm sure rewarding project, things look to be shaping up very nicely indeed. Will definitely be watching from here on in. cookster 1 Quote Cheers, Jason "Which it will be ready when it is ready!" In the shipyard: HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate) Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700) Finished: HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share #85 Posted April 27, 2015 Mark, not sure if the numbers scare Augie or the fact there's so many. Actually, the total # is around 80 once you add in the cant frames - which I'm procrastinating on. I'm even dragging my heels on drawing them, cause once I get them drawn then I have to make them! Thanks Jason, glad to have you on board. Hope you have patience cause this build is S L O W .... Yes it's challenging, but I am enjoying designing and building my Essex. I just hope I don't screw up somewhere down the line and not do her justice.... Here's a couple views of the bottom, and the until now unseen planked (plywood bulkhead side) And yes this proves I did not accidentally grind away any bulkheads... GrandpaPhil, hexnut, mtaylor and 4 others 7 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted April 27, 2015 Author Share #86 Posted April 27, 2015 Once quick mention, I edited the first post of this log to show somewhat of a "before and after" of my frame building/design process. Hopefully new readers that come along will see that yes, there is a plan to this madness. And, I've now named my method "The Godzilla Method", or "The Alligator Skin Method". When looking at my frames before I trimmed them that's what they looked like to me... Carry on! Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted April 27, 2015 Share #87 Posted April 27, 2015 Yup, was referring to the frame numbers. Godzilla has a nice ring to it. cookster 1 Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share #88 Posted May 9, 2015 I've finally begun work on the dreaded forward cant frames. Since I did not want to commit this to the model without knowing if my plan would work, I decided to build a jig\mockup to work on this off the model. If everything goes to plan, or even if I have to redo things, once all is good I can transfer the pieces to the model. I hope. I'm still using the plywood bulkhead method. Once I get all the angles and such cut on the ply, then I'll start to add the pear. dgbot, mtaylor, augie and 5 others 8 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookster Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share #89 Posted June 2, 2015 I have made a few cant frames and dry fitted them. I'm still using the hybrid plywood and frame method. I'm using a plan for the cant frame angles to the keel just as the folks that build true POF do. I'm also cutting the matching bevel on the ply at the keel joint. I added brass locating pins to use in placing and removing the frames during dry fitting and rough fairing. I used flat scarphs on the upper frame joints, although I'm not sure my methods duplicate actual practice. At this point I'm going with it, they won't really show anyway. The scarph is a good joint to use to join the single frame timbers (since there is no sistered pieces to join to) I still have quite a few more cants to make so that will take a few weeks at my pace. I added pine wedges to set the angles to the keel. Scarph joint Dubz, dgbot, mtaylor and 6 others 9 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobbsie Posted June 2, 2015 Share #90 Posted June 2, 2015 Starting to look a bit complicated now Wes, you obviously know what your doing and for me this is a really interesting build and she's coming along nicely mate. This is something you can't hurry but I still look forward to further updates. Be Good mobbsie GLakie and augie 2 Quote mobbsie All mistakes are deliberate ( me ) Current Build:- HMS Schooner Pickle Completed Builds :- Panart 1/16 Armed Launch / Pinnace ( Completed ), Granado Cross Section 1/48 Harwich Bawley, Restoration, Thames Barge Edme, Repair / Restoration, Will Everard 1/67 Billings HMS Agamemnon 1781 - 1/64 Caldercraft Kit, HM Brig Badger, HM Bomb Vessel Granado, Thames Steam Launch Louise, Thames Barge Edme, Viking Dragon Boat Next Build :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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