HMS Pegasus by Landlubber Mike - Amati/Victory Models - Scale 1:64

[mtaylor]

Nice to see that you're back at it Mike.   Planking looks good.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks guys.

 

SpyGlass, thanks for the tip.  I'm thinking about going with printed laminate lettering (I forget the actual term), rather than the kit supplied photo etched letters.  I think I can get a more accurate lining up of the letters than if I try to individually position the photo etched ones.

[Martin W]

Nice stern counter, Mike.  The planks fit really well and tightly.  As for the rest of the planking, well, I can say that I've been working on the 2nd layer since December.  As a late-night builder, you will surely move faster than I have!  Can't wait to see your progress.

 

Cheers,

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Martin, would love to see your progress too.  Have you decided on your color scheme yet?  I'm thinking of going black from the wales down, pear stained a darker brown for the area from the wales to the friezes, pear stained blue for the friezes, and redheart just above the friezes.  The upper area is going to be tricky to avoid the stained areas bleeding over, so I'm taking my time planning things out.

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi everyone, I've been stuck on a big project at work that finally wrapped up last week, so finally have some time to get back to the shipyard.  

 

Executing the different stained areas is going to be a bit tricky, so I've started by lining off the hull with respect to the wales and some of the sheer rails.  At the suggestion of some on here, I also picked up the Jim Roberts pamphlet "Planking the Built-Up Ship Model" from Model Expo which was on sale for $2.65 or somewhere around there.  It's a nice pamphlet on the topic and so I wanted to thank people for the recommendation.  The pamphlet says to start with the wales, and the run the planking above and below it using the planking bands.  This seems like a very good approach to me.  

 

Question:  Should I do the wales using thicker planks so that I'm just using one run of planks for the wales on top of the first planking layer?  The kit (and other kits) generally have you do all the second planking, then add another layer for the wales.  It seems like it might just be better to use 2mm thick planks, which would give me a cleaner line around the stern counter (but would require a slight modification to the rabbet at the stem).  It would be a little harder using thicker planks, but I'll be using swiss pear so I'm not anticipating too much difficulty.

 

Any suggestions or tips on which approach is better and why?  Thanks very much in advance!

Edited June 9, 2015 by Landlubber Mike

[Martin W]

Hi Mike -- I did my wales in 2 layers to build them up.  In hindsight, I think I would have been just as happy, maybe even happier, using thicker stock and just going through the process once.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[mtaylor]

Mike,

 

I tend to agree with Martin.  But in the end, it will be your choice.

[ChrisLBren]

Id laminate two layers - it will be much easier even if you are using a bendy wood like swiss pear to get them properly aligned.   Then paint or dye them before proceeding with the rest of your planking - no need to mask.  Thats how I approached it on my Confederacy. 

[Landlubber Mike]

Here's a quick update.  I marked the waterline, and have been marking the hull for the location of the wales, as well as one of the rails.  This has literally been hours of work for me!  I don't know if it takes others this long, but I really want to make sure that I get the wales right for not only a smooth line, but also because accuracy is key as the rails, planking, stem and stern items, etc. will flow from how the wale is placed.  I used 3mm blue tape.  The bottom two tape runs mark the upper and lower boundary of the wales.  The upper tape marks the top end of the waist rail (the waist rail will be 2mm in width, so the tape is a bit wider).

 

 

 

Placement of the wales is tricky.  I had to look at logs from BE and others to see how it should end up at the stem and stern.  The wales are 12mm wide - I plan on using 4mm straight planks for the top part of the wale, and top and butt planking for the bottom two rows of wale planking.  As you approach the stem, as noted in TFFM, there is a slight reversal of the sheer curve of the wale where it flattens out a bit.  At the stem, there is sort of a tuck in under to the stern counter by the lower piece.  So you essentially go from having a rather flat wale for most of the ship to more of a curved portion at the stern.  Martin's Fly log shows how he carved a custom piece of planking for the aft-most, bottom-most plank of the wale to very good effect.

 

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts on how to plank the wale.  I think I'm going to attempt planking it as one layer.  It just seems easier, but If I run into trouble, I can switch over to a laminate approach like Chris mentioned.  I'll mark the boundaries in pencil, then add a temporary batten along that pencil line to help me run the wales in a smooth line.  

 

I plan on staining/dying the wales and the planking (both in pear) down to the copper line in black.  Things will get tricky from there.  Above the wales, I plan on planking the area just under the waist rail in pear, and stain it a darker brown.  The area just above it is the area with the friezes.  Again, to avoid paint, I plan on staining the planking there using blue stain.  I got a nice dark blue color on pear, while it was too "french blue" on maple.  I might test the stain on boxwood to see if I can get more of an in between color.  The waist rail will cover up any seams, etc. between the two stained areas.  I haven't decided whether to go with separate planking runs for the two areas, or run the planking, stain the areas as mentioned, and hope the waist rail covers up any stain runs.  To be safe, I'll probably go with the former.

 

After the two frieze areas, there is another decorative rail that I will plank in redheart.  It seems like a number of the Swan class ships used red in this area, and I think it should tie in nicely with the redheart I'm using in the rest of the build.

 

This is quite ambitious and a lot more complicated than what I had to do on my Badger, but I think I have a game plan.  Now I just need to execute 

Edited May 28, 2015 by Landlubber Mike

[mtaylor]

Go for it, Mike.  It looks like a great plan is about come together.

[cobra1951]

The position of the whale looks spot on to me, nicely done

[Trussben]

Always good to have a plan before you start throwing wood at her and hoping for the best, I have learned this Very much on my own Pegasus build.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing your progress.

 

Ben

[Martin W]

Hi Mike -- I just got into town and am catching up.  Your progress looks really good, and the lines for the wales look spot on to my eye.  Someone suggested to me that using high-grade wood for the wales is something of a waste, since they're stained black, so I ended up using a good bit of wood from the scrap pile, including some holly that was loads easier to bend and shape than the boxwood.

 

And there's nothing wrong with ambition -- challenge your skill level, and you'll only raise it! 

 

Can't wait to see how it pans out for you.

 

cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Hey guys, 

 

I started to work on the planking for the wales the past couple of nights.  I'm going to start with the top row of the wales, which consists of straight planks, and then work on the top and butt planks for the next two rows.  I decided to go with 2mm planks, rather than planking twice with 1mm planks, which I think would make for a cleaner presentation.  It's been a bit tricky bending the first plank at the stem - my first couple of attempts, the pear planks split a little.  My second attempts seem to have worked better.  Soaked the planks in water, slowly bent the planks back and forth to loosen the fibers, and then I put them in a jig that approximated the curve.  

 

Since I'm planning on using smaller planks, I'm thinking about running a temporary full length planking strip to mark the upper line of the wales.  This way when I run that first line of planking for the wale, it will butt against that temporary planking line and be a smooth continuous line.

 

Question:  For those that have built or are working on the Swan class, I just wanted to confirm that the wales generally have an upward sweep as you go from the stem to the stern, and actually have a slight downward sweep at the very front section near the stem.  Is this the case?  If you use the full length kit planks as suggested by the instructions, I think you would ultimately have to bend the planks laterally against their width.  

 

My issue:  By starting with the wales and using 2mm planks, this naturally affects the remaining planking above the wales and below - i.e., those planking lines would have a similar sweep.  This is probably less of a problem using smaller planks and spilling them, but it's making me think whether it would have just been easier adding the second row of planking using straight runs of planks, and then adding the wales on top with a second layer.  If I ever want to get back to a straight run of planks, particularly above the wales, I'll almost have to customize the row of planking immediately above the wales to get back to a straight line.

 

 

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Edited June 25, 2015 by Landlubber Mike

[Martin W]

Hi Mike -- Glad to see you're embarking on this keystone step.  I noticed that upward sweep of the wales on the kit plans, and if you follow the line of the gunport strips, that's what you'll end up with.  Because there's a warning in FFM against succumbing to the upward drift -- and it seems to want to happen especially as you're planking from the keel upward -- I worked fairly hard to keep the line of the wales a bit flat.  It's not entirely flat, but I measured from the gunports to determine the general placement, and used temporary basswood strips to decide where the wales would actually end up.  I sighted the line-up from the broadside, bow, & stern.  I still ended up with enough of an upward sweep at the bow to necessitate lots of spiling on those planks just below the wales. But above, the so-called "black" strake and upward -- where I am currently working -- have gone much, much more easily.

 

-- I didn't notice that downward sweep at the stem you mention; maybe it's just where the curvature of the hull actually reaches the part of the bow that flattens a bit?  It seems that it's right around BHs 2 - 4 that the most extreme curve happens, and that's where the planks want to bend laterally as well, and consequently where most of the spiling takes place.

 

You might want to go ahead and work out a planking chart, so you'll know how many strakes will fit into the band at each BH, and how much you need to trim each plank to maintain that number.  That will also help you avoid having to reduce individual planks below half the common width when you get right up to the stem.  The dreaded upward curve will almost certainly lead you to narrow the planks more and more as you work up from the keel and down from the wales.

 

Having just finished my own 2nd planking a month or so ago, I'm still grinding my teeth.  Here's the lesson I learned:  plan, plan, and plan:  then measure, re-measure, and measure again each time you lay a plank to make sure it is the actual width required for that part of the hull.  Review your plans and stick to them.

 

Hope this helps a little.

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks very much Martin, this is all very helpful.

 

I literally spent hours marking off the wales and the rails.  I'm fairly confident (I think  ) that my wales are marked correctly.  At this point, I'm thinking that I will stick with the 2mm planks as I don't want to have to go through that exercise again if I switched to two layers of 1mm planking!

 

In terms of the sweep of the wales, there is a slight upward sweep at the stern as the wales generally follow the sweep of the gun ports.  At the stem, I probably overstated that it was a downward sweep - you are correct that it's more of a flattening of the wales.  I recall reading this in TFFM (and I think on some build logs), so I think a flattening is what one should see.  I need to take another look at the sample planking diagram in TFFM 2, but I recall that the planks looked fairly straight above the wales.  I'm going to attempt to plank above the wales according to that diagram, but I fear that I'll have to customize the black strake to be able to use straight planks.  At least I'll be coppering and so only the planks above the waterline will be visible 

 

Where I'm really making things difficult on myself is in using stains and different woods, rather than paint, above the wales.  I don't think that the runs of planks cleanly fit within the various color bands, so it's going to be very interesting working my way up from the wales.  I think it's doable, but it's going to take a lot of planning and plotting out as you suggest.  Fun times!

[Martin W]

Mike -- Sorry, I think I misread your earlier post.  There is indeed an upward sweep toward the stern.  I actualy think I did not take my wales up enough (by about 1/16") back there, which resulted in too much of the wales swooping down under the bulwark and to the stern counter.

 

As for the colors you're working out -- I think it'll be a good touch to your build.  If you have a waterline marker (they're easy to make if you don't have one), you can put a line on the bulwarks where colors/woods change, and help prepare yourself that way.  Maybe.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[mtaylor]

Mike,

 

What the others have said.. and spile, spile, spile.

 

For bending.... I soak and then use heat to get the wood really flexible and pre-bent.  While still flexible, I pin into place and allow to dry and also to set the bend/twist. 

 

The double thickness should work.  Once the wales are finished, run a couple of battens o each  side (or one side and transfer the measurements if they're equal0 and line off the hull/bulwarks/frames for the planks.  You'll end up with one line for each plank per bulkhead/frame.  A PITA but it does work. even for us who are doing a single planking for the first time.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks very much guys!  I'll give it a go and see what happens

 

And the plans show a cut out step which I ignored

 

I saw that as well SpyGlass, though the model on the box cover art doesn't show the cut out step.  I also took a look at TFFM and other sources, and didn't see a similar cut out step so I'm ignoring it as well.

[Landlubber Mike]

Well, I started working on the wale, and am laying down the first line of planks.  I plan on planking it according to TFFM, so the upper row will be straight planks, and the next two below will be top and butt planks.  I've laid the first three planks down, and have the remaining plank on either side to go.

 

 

 

This doesn't look like much progress, but I've had hours upon hours on getting the line correct.  I'm using 2mm planks for the wale, rather than two rows of 1mm planks as per the kit directions.  I first plotted out the lines in pencil, then ran blue masking tape to outline the lines to give me an idea of how the planking would run.  Easy enough.  Then I started overthinking things.  I worried that in running the planking line using four separate planks, the line wouldn't be a smooth curve but rather would be angular at the joints between two planks.  So, I added a temporary batten on both sides marking the upper boundary of the planking run as in the picture below:

 

 

 

In theory this would have worked great, but after running three planks on either side and confirming the measurements against the plans, I found that I was off a bit in a few places by as much as 1mm!  Argh!  While I was able to pop some of the planks off to refit in earlier rounds, this time was too much and they all started cracking.  So, back to the drawing board.

 

I spent a few hours redrawing the wale and rail lines.  Interestingly, my original lines had been off for some reason even though I checked and rechecked it numerous times.  I think my new lines are much more accurate.  From there, I soaked and pre-fit planks as I went along, and after they dried, I glued them using pins and sometimes just my fingers to keep them on the line.  Much better results this time around.

 

Couple of things that helped when it came to the first plank at the stem.  First, I widened the rabbet for the wale at the stem to 2mm using some micro gouges.  The rabbet really helps to anchor that first plank at the stem.  Next, I used the jig in the picture below that I got from Micro Mark a while back.  First time I used it, but after eyeballing the general curve and setting the pins, it did a nice job pre-bending the wet 2mm pear planks.  After the planks dried, I soaked them in hot water again and pinned them to the model in the right position.  Once dry, I glued with white glue.  The other planks didn't need to spend any time in that jig thankfully.

 

Edited July 3, 2015 by Landlubber Mike

[JohnB40]

Mike,

 

Great progress and construction skills on the Pegasus. The pearwood really is a lovely colour for ship models.

 

Have a great 4th.

[ChrisLBren]

Dude this is why I told you to laminate the Wales (smile)

[Landlubber Mike]

Finishing the wale is going to be tricky.  The kit appears to have left off the quarter piece that extends just below the taffrail into the wale.  So, what you end up with if you follow the kit is the taffrail just hanging out to the sides of the ship.  The kit supplies you with a photo etch decorative piece that flows where the quarter piece would normally be, but I'm not sure how one is supposed to add it if it lays on the second planking with the bottom of it on the top of the wale (essentially, bumping up an extra mm to go onto the wale).  Here is a picture, I think from BE's log, that shows what I mean about the taffrail just hanging out there:

 

 

 

Here are some pics from the NMM plans showing what I think are quarter pieces:

 

 

 

 

I think Blue Ensign spotted this on his build, and added quarter pieces to his Pegasus.  I'm going to do the same.  I think it would not only add accuracy to the model, but aesthetically, it would essentially round off the taffrail in a much nicer way than just having square ends like the kit.  So, I'll probably take a piece of pear and try and carve it into the correct shape.  BE has a detailed section on his build log on putting together the quarter piece.

 

I've also been taking a look at the quarter badges.  While they look nice, I'm thinking of making them a little more three dimensional by making a sorta bow window look to them.  Realworkingsailor took that approach on his Pegasus to really nice effect, and it seems like some other modelers have taken a similar route as well. 

 

Edited July 3, 2015 by Landlubber Mike

[Landlubber Mike]

Mike,

 

Great progress and construction skills on the Pegasus. The pearwood really is a lovely colour for ship models.

 

Have a great 4th.

 

Thanks John, really appreciate the kind words.  I'm actually going to be staining the pear (I know, sacrilege!) on this model in various hues - darker brown, black and even blue.  I want a darker look to the model, but plan on sticking with pure pear (and ebonized pear) and boxwood on my Lyme build.

 

A happy and safe 4th to you and your family as well!

 

Dude this is why I told you to laminate the Wales (smile)

 

Jeff's pear at 2mm actually bent quite nicely without any issues.  I'm not sure if there was really a need to laminate it as I got it to bend around to the stem fairly easily with some soaking and time in the jig.  I saw in the TFFM series something about laminating the stern.  I'll have to read it again to understand why that approach is taken.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Landlubber Mike

[ChrisLBren]

By laminating the wales you can get the run perfect - and not worry about using jigs to bend for the curve - nor do you worry about butt joints on the top of the wale.  With this method you lay the perfect foundation - and its actually easier and less time consuming !  

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Chris.  Do you mind sharing how to do that technique?  I assumed you meant glue two pieces of 1mm stock together, then glue the combined 2mm piece to the hull.  It obviously sounds like there is more to it than that.  Do you overlap the butt joints of the lower piece and then sand the combined piece to get a nice continual curve?  

[ChrisLBren]

Hey Mike,

 

Its just like double planking a hull - but in this case you lay your first layer of wales @ 1mm.  Its so much easier to line things up and get a proper run.  Then with the second layer you can use anchor stock planking or whatever joints you wish to simulate.  Dye or paint your wales then proceed with your single planking (no need to mask !) on the rest of the hull and the wale line stays neat and tidy.  Or in your case continue finish planking your hull to the keel.  You then can dye all the way to the waterline (dont worry about masking since you are coppering and you are good to go!)  You can be sloppy here since your copper tiles will be the waterline.  

 

As far as your approach on staining and dyeing - its going to be tricky.  Both have a habit of running where you don't want it post installation of your planks. You can stain/dye the planks off the model but then you will always deal with possible glue spots/runs later or gaps between the planks you will need to fill. Thats why painting those areas or actually using wood the color you want to represent is so much more effective.  

Edited July 3, 2015 by ChrisLBren

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Chris.  Frankly, going with 2mm planks wasn't all that bad.  I had a couple of the pear pieces split on the stem pieces (interestingly, not on the bend itself but at the far end where the plank was straight).  I soon figured out that after soaking, it was good to loosen the wood fibers but bending the planks backward and forward a few times, and then bending to the final configuration.  I had no more issues after that.  All in all, it was a little more work with the 2mm planks, but then I only had to run the planks once.

 

Yeah, the staining is going to be a little tricky.  I might have been better off going with walnut for the dark brown areas from the beginning, but I was scared off by the fact that it tends to be very grainy and more splintery than pear.  I'm going to take my time and do the best I can.  I'm hoping that the 2mm rails will hide any color runs between the brown and blue areas (and frankly, I can probably pre-color the blue planks ahead of time).  The color transition between the brown and black should be fine, as hopefully the brown doesn't bleed onto the black wale (plus, the wale is 2mm, and I can always touch it up with the black again).  For the red area, I'm planning to use redheart so no bleeding issues there to worry about.  The General Finishes stains that I'm planning on using seem to combine stain properties of being a very thin finish with paint properties of coverage and deep color, so I think that should help me.

 

A little ambitious, but so far my modifications are going nicely so I might as well try it out. 

Edited July 3, 2015 by Landlubber Mike

[Martin W]

Three cheers for modifications!!! 

[Landlubber Mike]

Ha, I'm not sure I'll be cheering just yet Martin

 

Martin, when you did your top and butt planks for the wales, did you cut them all to the same length?  The diagram in TFFM shows them in different lengths along the hull, which makes things a little trickier.