Can i live without a BYRNES TABLE SAW

[dgbot]

On the band saws at work we have been able to cut and produce almost anything.  All I wish we had was a traditional resaw blade that we could fit to it.  But the cost is not in our budget for that kind of specialty blade.  The company complains when we order a serrated blade because of the cost but when cutting sponge and foam there is nothing better for the job.  They also do not the danger it presents to the poor shlup who has to replace it or weld a new one.  I wear a pair of heavy duty leather and kelvar gloves otherwise I would be handling a razor blade that is over 156 inches long.  Just taking it out of the bandsaw is dangerous. I flip it out onto the floor and once it stops moving I coil and tape it.  The tape got cut and it came loose grazing my work shoes.  Lost a brand new shoe but kept my toes.  A band saw is only as good as the blade being used and the skill of the operator.  Some people say that a table saw is dangerous but a band saw is just as bad.  But handled properly you can do almost anything with it.  

David B

[GLakie]

Yup. Those rules apply to any power tool. If you don't understand what damage it can cause if you're not careful, and sometimes even if you are, you shouldn't mess with it. Luckily, I grew up in the trades, and have knowledge of most power tools, and the safety precautions needed to keep my pinkies.

 

Cheers 

[Bob Blarney]

dgbot, It sounds to me that that company needs to spend some money on training before a very serious injury occurs that will cost them a lot of money, (or maybe you guys should consider the 'U' word....)

 

I could say that a bandsaw is safer than any tablesaw.  But I know that there aren't any 'safe tools' --- there are only cautious operators.  

 

Cap'n'Bob:  i'd buy a tool that can do 80% of the work that I do, not just 25% more that I could imagine.  As for bandsaws, I'd never buy less than a 12", ever.  Small saws are too fussy and break blades at a harsh word.  A 14"  saw s a very good choice for all-around work.  Mine's a Delta-Milwaukee from  the '40s or 50s' -- it's sturdy, cuts precisely, runs great, and parts are available.

[fletch944t]

Couldn't help but chime in on the bandsaw thread.

 

Ironically, the day Marcus posted his message about bandsaws I was reading an article in a special edition of Wood Magazine on bandsaws. The article was titled "Make Any Bandsaw a Peak Performer".

 

I won't go into a lot of detail but, the article was written by Michael Fortune who has a total of five bandsaws in his shop. He considers his 14" Ridgid to be equal to his most expensive saws in precision cutting. A picture in the article shows Michael half sawing a 2x6 board on his Ridgid bandsaw.

 

According to Michael, it's really more about buying a really good blade (most saws come with inferior blades) and proper setup than it is about the saw itself.

 

Fletch

Edited December 17, 2014 by fletch944t

[dgbot]

Bob, the band saws are in the hand cut area and we are the only ones who are allowed to use them. Like our lathe and mill I have a great deal of respect for them. When asked to do a job that we think is not safe we let it be known that no job is worth getting g hurt over. And when we have an extra hand either the lead man or me sets the saw up and I do not leave until I am sure the operator is running the job in a safe manner with the proper safety gear.

David B

[flying_dutchman2]

I just did a quick search on eBay on band saws. Starting around $80.00 to a JET band saw for $1600.
I am selling my entire vintage model railroad collection (Marklin-German) and with that profit I will invest in some of the above. If some one does pay more than what I ask, a Byrnes tool will be ordered.

Those portable band saws look funky.  I wonder how you would get the same results as the regular one.  No need to explain.

Marc

[Bob Blarney]

Hmm, 'portable' bandsaws are for the men of metal (e.g. plumber, steel fabricator).  

 

The Byrnes saw looks like a very good machine, and if your interests are mainly limited to small work then I think it would be an excellent choice.  (If you want to see another table saw from the age of fine American machines, look up the Hammond Glider.)

 

Just another few comments about bandsaws:  It may be that advances in blade technology have overcome the breakage problem of smaller than 12" saws, but I'll still keep my 14" D/M.  BTW, my advice is to avoid three-wheeled benchtop bandsaws; they're horrible.

 

Fletch944t:  Somewhere I have a pic of when I resawed boards of 3/4" x 9.5"x 48"  grenadillo boards (very hard wood) for guitar backs & sides using the 14" Delta-Milwaukee with a 6" riser block. I cut off slices about 3/32" thick x 9.5" wide x 48" long.  The blade was a 105" Lenox Trimaster, which I'd found for $6 at a hardware store.  Unfortunately, that wonderful blade wasn't really suited to such a small saw as the 14", and it broke after a few months, and it was never the same after it was professionally re-welded.  When I priced out a new blade from Lenox,  I discovered the price is $1.80 >per inch<!  (Ouch!)  I wish that I had saved it for very special cuts, because it was an amazing blade.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Bob Blarney

[dgbot]

I feel your pain. A couple of years ago we had several job making reinforced bearing pads for a railroad. We had little trouble cutting the soft material but when we started on the steel being used we kept dulling our blade. It was made for cutting metal. But the steel was was harder. We went through 4 blades per pad. We begged for a dual blade. But the salesman said that it would cut into the profit and to use what we had. We buy our blades by the 100th spool and weld them on the spot. We finished off a spool of the metal cutting blade and management got angry at the cost. We told them what the salesman told us and that the pads were done on time and passed inspection. We got a dual blade along with a spool of the other stuff.

David B

[shihawk]

Am i correct in assuming now that to cover all needs ,if i were to start scratch building ,a table saw plus a scroll or band saw would be necessary and maybe a thickness sander if possible ?????

[GLakie]

I have all of the above except for the Planer. The tool most used out of them all is the Byrnes Table Saw .

 

Apart from the obvious uses you can't beat it for making very exact rebates, for example in Mast Tops :

 

Trestle Trees.jpg

 

Or for cutting planks to half thickness for the Top Floors :

 

Top Planks 001.jpg

 

  Danny

From the words of a master.  Page 4 of this thread.

 

Cheers 

Edited December 21, 2014 by GLakie

[captainbob]

Every builder needs to find out what tools he needs and not all builders have the same tools.  I have a band saw for the heave and straight cuts and a scroll saw for the curves.  I got rid of my table saw because I was not using it.

 

Bob

[Chuck Seiler]

Am i correct in assuming now that to cover all needs ,if i were to start scratch building ,a table saw plus a scroll or band saw would be necessary and maybe a thickness sander if possible ?????

That depends on what you will be scratch building.  I have been scratch building (although not necessarily scratch completing...but I digress) for years.  The Byrnes saw and a handy Dremel are all the power tools I used.  I was doing plank on bulkhead.  If you plan on going plank on frame, using , say, the Hahn method or the Antscherl method, I think a scroll saw will be needed to cut out the frames. 

[Roman]

I must say that ship model building is after all a fastidious but enjoyable past time. We all have our own way of approaching and solving similar problems. I am quite sure that model makers of the 18th century were using tools that were state of the art then and along the way came another modeler who preferred to use 16th century tools. I guess that is normal in us humans. I would assume that we could all scratch build with less specialized tools but it sure is nice to be able to look in the tool box and have at your disposal a Stanley #6 or a scroll saw or the Byrnes saw or anything else that can make our life's easier. I am willing to bet that those great model builders of the 18th century would have used electric power tools had they been available at the time; but knowing what I know now from reading the comments, I must accept the reality of it all. After all, Beavers scratch build their Dams with a single tool, teeth. Thank god we are not Beavers.

 

Respectfully

Roman

Edited December 22, 2014 by Roman

[Nirvana]

Roman,

Scratch building by using our teeth?

 

That would be something new.....

[Nirvana]

I think I stay with the modern world tools to a certain degree....... thank goodness

Edited December 22, 2014 by Nirvana

[Chuck Seiler]

I must say that ship model building is after all a fastidious but enjoyable past time. We all have our own way of approaching and solving similar problems. I am quite sure that model makers of the 18th century were using tools that were state of the art then and along the way came another modeler who preferred to use 16th century tools. I guess that is normal in us humans. I would assume that we could all scratch build with less specialized tools but it sure is nice to be able to look in the tool box and have at your disposal a Stanley #6 or a scroll saw or the Byrnes saw or anything else that can make our life's easier. I am willing to bet that those great model builders of the 18th century would have used electric power tools had they been available at the time; but knowing what I know now from reading the comments, I must accept the reality of it all. After all, Beavers scratch build their Dams with a single tool, teeth. Thank god we are not Beavers.

 

Respectfully

Roman

Agreed.  My point was that you don't NEED those tools if you want to scratch build but don't have a shop full of tools.  I functioned very well for many years with my Dremel, exacto and sanding block.  One day I got a Byrnes saw and the world opened up for me.  Since then I started scratch building.  I have now purchased a disc sander and expect my model building experience will gt easier and models better.  Some day I will get some other thingamajig when I see a need for it.

[rtropp]

Shihawk

I have all the tools you mentioned except for the bandsaw. For me, I am only considering a band saw if i decide I need it to rip down large planks. Others prefer the band saw saying it does everything a scroll saw does and more. I find it easier to control the scroll saw for cutting out parts. At first, You might want to exchange one of those for a drill press or stand for the hand rotary cutter in order to better contol angles and placement of small holes. Also I made a sander attachment that uses larger sanding drums and is great for sanding inside curves.

 

Part of the modeling fun for me is learning how to use tools. I am spending a lot of time learning how to use them which is actually slowing down my build. But, that is just me. After all, if I dont like a tool there is always ebay.

 

Either way just make sure you are having fun. For most of us it is a hobby

 

Richard

[shihawk]

Richard , i know what you mean about spending time learning to use the tools ,i bought a proxxon lathe some time ago and still havn,t quite got the hang of it , problem is i don,t need it that often at this stage in my build ,and i suppose this is the problem with all tools ,there will be periods when you think, Why did i buy that ??,and then at another stage you wonder how you would manage without it .  No single tool can be used for everything ,so it comes down to do i do it with a file or buy a lathe ??As many have said most fancy tools can be done without but life and this wonderfull hobby can be so much easier with them !!

[fletch944t]

So, here's a question for all of the scratch builders out there. What is the fewest number of power tools you've used for a scratch build?

[flying_dutchman2]

So, here's a question for all of the scratch builders out there. What is the fewest number of power tools you've used for a scratch build?

I am doing my first scratch build. Dremel and a scroll saw are the only power tools I built with and the rest is all hand tools. Today I built a fence for my SSaw and I cut out the keel which is 4mm x 4mm x 347mm. After the third try it looks good and straight. A table saw would do this job in less steps, but it did work. Also the SSaw has so many options when it comes to types of blades.

 

What I like about the SSaw is that it is very versatile and have gotton great results with that for all types of projects. I did order 3 Japanese saws. After reading the comments and researching these tools I was sold. Will get those after Christmas.

 

You can buy sanding strips for the SSaw but I just fold a 1" x 5" piece of sand paper and put it in the clamps of my SSaw and sand on a slow speed. It is a slow process but there is much more control.

 

The drill press can be used for accurate drilling but add a sanding drum and you have a sander. Like someone said. There are many power tools but which one will you "really" use and which one stays in the box.

 

With my SSaw I create bowls which is really cutting the wood on an angle. Then glue the pieces together, sand, stain/oil and voila you have a bowl. Buy a lath and you can do the same thing. With one block of wood. Same results and no seems as it is one piece of wood. The seems give it character.

 

Marc

[captainbob]

I have built several with the only power tool being a scroll saw. 

 

Bob

[mtaylor]

Use as few or as many as you want or have.   My heaviest used power tools are the table saw and scroll saw, followed by the mill (doubles as a drill press) and lathe (minimal... guns, some round stock, etc.)  Most important tool... a good shop vac for dust control and clean-up as my shop is in a spare bedroom.

[Nirvana]

Use as few or as many as you want or have.   My heaviest used power tools are the table saw and scroll saw, followed by the mill (doubles as a drill press) and lathe (minimal... guns, some round stock, etc.)  Most important tool... a good shop vac for dust control and clean-up as my shop is in a spare bedroom.

Shop vac I like to get, price wise not bad at all...... the little bigger brother only 50 dollars more.

And much quieter than regular vacuum machine.

[Ponto]

Shop vac I like to get, price wise not bad at all...... the little bigger brother only 50 dollars more.

 

And much quieter than regular vacuum machine.

 

 

Yikes!!!! .... the cadillac  of vacuum cleaners.......

 

 

JP

[mtaylor]

Dr. Per,

That one is the top top top of the line...  I opted for cheap.... but it seems to do the job: http://www.lowes.com/pd_549708-20097-5872511_0__?productId=50159057&Ntt=shop+vacuums&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dshop%2Bvacuums&facetInfo=

[GLakie]

I got my Ridgid 4 Gal. with a micro-fine dust filter, and lifetime warranty for the same price Mark and I think it does a great job with dust extraction for almost all my power tools. I think it's pretty cost effective. Had to add another $50 or so for most of the extra attachments though. 

 

Cheers 

Edited December 25, 2014 by GLakie

[rtropp]

Mark,

I agree that the shop vac is the most important, most used, power tool in my shop.  I have a remote wireless switch in my pocket and move the hose from tool to tool as I use them. I have rigged all my power tools to fit the hose.  I also have one of those car cleaning attachments for the hose and use it when cutting or sanding by hand at my workbench. A pair of noise cancelling headphones from my air travel days does a great job of cutting the noise for me while using the vac and tools. I tend not to listen to music while on power tools, for me too distracting, but the head phones still cut a lot of the noise.

 

My shop is in the sunroom and, luckily, it is on the opposite side of the house from the bedroom, so the noise does not travel. 

 

My wife is nice enough to have agreed for to me converting the sunroom to a shop so I want to make sure she does not regret it because of dust.  So far, no complaints.

 

Richard

[flying_dutchman2]

I like this. We moved from Byrnes tools to shop vacs. This thread would be better titled..... "Can I live without power tools, including high-end power tools."

 

I have a cheap, light shop vac and have been looking for something more quiet. I like the ones that both Mark and Gorge have. Further research is needed.

Like rtropp, I have also rigged my power tools to fit the hose of the vac.

 

Something else. Without my knowledge, at the NRG conference this year, my wife talked to several wives of modelers and asked about the Byrnes tools. (she likes the quality and would use them as well). They told her that most of there husbands used hand tools and some power tools. The power tools were also rigged to perform different results. Meaning one power tool could do the same job as 2 or 3 different power tools. None of them had any Byrnes tools. Mostly tools from Lowes, Home Depot and the like.

 

Conclusion....... I can do without them.

Marc

[Bob Blarney]

 

 

Something else. Without my knowledge, at the NRG conference this year, my wife talked to several wives of modelers and asked about the Byrnes tools. (she likes the quality and would use them as well). They told her that most of there husbands used hand tools and some power tools. The power tools were also rigged to perform different results. Meaning one power tool could do the same job as 2 or 3 different power tools. None of them had any Byrnes tools. Mostly tools from Lowes, Home Depot and the like.

Conclusion....... I can do without them.
Marc

 

So, no power tools?  Not even the Byrnes TS?

[flying_dutchman2]

So, no power tools?  Not even the Byrnes TS?

What I meant to say is that these modelers have power tools but not Byrnes power tools.

I have power tools as well. Drill, dremel, router and scroll saw. Besides Ship modeling I also do fret work, making bowls, wooden clocks made from all wood and intarsia. I am always looking for power tools that I can use for all of the above hobbies.

Marc