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Triton cross-section by tkay11 (aka Tony)

Triton cross-section Triton cross-section

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#21
tkay11

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Thanks, Mark. That's very useful. I'm now definitely leaning that way too. In fact writing out in the log made the decision much easier. That's another value of composing a log -- it composes the thoughts too!

 

It seems like I'm following your footsteps even more closely than I had envisaged!

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#22
mtaylor

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I hope your not following too closely. My cross-section warped somehow in the last couple of years.  In an air-conditioned and humidity controlled house, yet.  


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Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

Past Builds:
Triton Cross-Section
USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War (Gallery) Build Log
Wasa (Gallery)


Member of the Nautical Research Guild


#23
tkay11

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Ha ha! Mine will definitely not be a model I'll be keeping for display in our place or any other.

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#24
tkay11

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After clarifying for myself what I mean by a ‘learning exercise’ (focus on learning the basic techniques more than attempting a beautiful finish) I decided to continue with the build, albeit with the imperfect frame sanding.

 

Also, as before with my Sherbourne build, I am using this log not only to clarify my own thinking, but also to help other newbies like myself should they come across similar puzzles and questions to the ones I find as the complexities arrive at each stage.

 

Part of this decision was not to make removable limber boards, and to avoid treenails. I thought that doing these precisely is beyond my skill level at present, especially as I’m still struggling with how I might make the angles on the limber boards more precise.

 

Pillars in the hold

 

These I made to scale of 6” square, with a tapered chamfer starting from 8” above the platform and within 6” of the beams as shown by David Antscherl in his book on the fully framed model. Also following his advice, I made 1mm dowels for the pillars and drilled corresponding holes in their bases and on the keelson.

 

(You'll see the finished pillars with the chamfered edges later in this post).

 

Attached File  P1020345 annot.jpg   179.3KB   0 downloads

 

Planking

 

After fitting the first 4 strakes outside the limber strakes, I fitted the lower deck clamps. In order to ensure they were at the correct height, I added another platform to my height jig and measured off the height at all four edges.

 

I thought it best to measure out the spaces rather than use the planking shown in the plans, so I used a simple paper template to mark between the lower deck clamps and the bottom strakes.

 

This showed that the thick stuff would not be able to lie exactly over the centre of where the first futtock joins were, although it hit exactly over the centre of the second, upper set of futtock joins.

 

Attached File  P1020351 small.jpg   231.16KB   0 downloads

 

I then checked the setting of the hold pillars

 

Attached File  P1020353 annot.jpg   277.15KB   0 downloads

 

Attached File  P1020354 small.jpg   203.78KB   0 downloads

 

Lower deck beams

 

I made up the beams to their actual size (rather than oversize) as I’m bending them with a jig.

 

First of all I measured the width at each beam’s position using an idea from David Antscherl’s book.

 

Attached File  P1020359 small.jpg   212.58KB   0 downloads

 

I then marked the beams for cutting by measuring them after bending them over a 2mm drill bit. The actual height I measured in the CAD programme was 1.97mm, but I thought this would be within the margins of multiple errors.

 

Attached File  P1020360 annot.jpg   171.98KB   0 downloads

 

I then transferred the cut beams to the following jig for bending:

 

Attached File  P1020361 small.jpg   231.91KB   0 downloads

 

I am in the process of heating them with a very old hair dryer at occasional intervals over the next few hours until they achieve a stable bend:

 

Attached File  P1020362 small.jpg   206.36KB   0 downloads

 

So the learning process continues, as I am sure it will continue to do so for a very long time!

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#25
Dubz

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I'm impressed Tony, veeery nice build. :-) But ... I would have redone the frames, hehe ... but that's just my opionion. I'll take a seat now and will follow and learn (Triton Crosssection is on my list too :-))

 

best,

 

Dirk 


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Member of the NRG
On build: HMC Sherbourne, USS Syren, Maria HF.31 Fishing Ewer, USS Confederacy
Next on list: Dutch Gunboat No5

Done: Revenue Cutter Alert

Gallery: Revenue Cutter AlertSwift

 

My Image Host: http://lychee.indee.de/


#26
tkay11

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Yes indeed, Dirk, I know you'd have started again. In fact I thought of you and Mark when I made my decision. No regrets. None. Not at all. Well, maybe a teeny weeny bit ...

 

I hope you've recovered after your Confederacy agitations. For a moment I thought we might be seeing more of the Sherbourne build.

 

As for your learning about the Triton, well, I reckon most of the others who've done this have lots more to give. I'm still in awe of some of the Triton cross-sections. All the same, thanks a lot for continuing your encouragement -- it means a lot!

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#27
tkay11

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Marking the beams for cutting notches

 

Once the beams were curved correctly, I placed them on the deck clamps and measured the centre points over the keel with a set square.

 

To ensure I replaced them correctly and to allow for variations of width from the centre line, I marked each beam on its upper surface with a ‘P’ and an ‘S’ to mark Port and Starboard.

 

I then took the beams down and marked the positions where cuts were to be made for the carlings and the arms.

 

I had noted that many cut the notches for the carlings while the beams are fixed to the clamps, but I could not figure out a way of doing that which would be accurate.

 

Some of those who build the cross section claim that they cut the notches while the beams are fixed because that allows for the curvature of the beam. However, I thought that simply placing the beam on its side on the plan would allow accurate placement of the cutting marks while compensating for the curvature.

 

Attached File  P1020363 annot.jpg   171.58KB   0 downloads

 

Once the beams were roughly marked out, I then clamped them together to ensure that all the marks aligned.

 

Attached File  P1020367 annot.jpg   188.48KB   0 downloads

 

The need for lots of practice!!!!

 

Once I’d done this, I realised that making the lattice of beams, carlings and ledges would require considerable practice in cutting notches accurately. So I set to with a scalpel and some mini-chisels I bought off a stall for £3. I used a set of dividers in association with the scalpel to mark the edges of the cuts.

 

You can see some of the practice in the following photo:

 

Attached File  P1020364 annot.jpg   209.19KB   0 downloads

 

I quickly learnt:

 

a.) that my chisels needed to be much, much SHARPER!

 

b.) that I’d need to make handles for the chisels to allow me to have a good firm grip.

 

So I went back to the trusty broom handle and fashioned a couple of chisel handles.

 

Attached File  P1020370 annot.jpg   317.54KB   0 downloads

 

I then spent a lot of time sharpening the chisels on 600 grit and 1200 grit diamond stones, and boy, did that make a difference!! (For those in the UK who are interested, I bought these from ArcEuroTrade for about £6 each. They really are worth it!)

 

I’m now almost satisfied that I can cut the notches accurately, so I’ll be doing that for the next several days – and probably re-doing them as I make mistakes!

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#28
tkay11

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Thanks for the likes, everyone! These, along with many, many cups of strong tea, will sustain me in my search for notch nirvana. It's possible several pages on the art of practice, failure and practice again will follow.

 

I sure am glad I didn't start all over again as I can foresee that there will be several points along the way at which I will contemplate exactly the same.

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#29
AnobiumPunctatum

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Looks really nice, Tony


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Regards Christian
 

In the shipyard: HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - Scale 1/32;

On the drawing board: Naval Cutter Rattlesnake, 1777 - Scale 1/32


#30
tkay11

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Thanks, Christian. Let's hope it continues to do so! I see lots of complexity and challenge ahead. Looking forward to it!

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#31
tkay11

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So practise I did, and I still have a way to go before the notches are perfect, but the nice thing is that the lower deck gives practice for the gun deck which will be more visible!

 

Getting the beams on

 

I thought it best to make the entire aft beam, beam arm, carling and ledge assembly before gluing the beams to the hull as I thought it would be too difficult to place the arms, carlings and ledges afterwards.

 

That pesky little aft-most carling which will have no support at its aft end was epoxied in and trued up with a square beforehand as well.

 

Once I had done that, I glued the beams to the hull with rapid-setting epoxy and held them down with the simple clamping arrangement shown in the photo.

 

Attached File  P1020372 annot.jpg   379.88KB   0 downloads

 

Lodging knees

 

I then had a look at the lodging and hanging knees. It was immediately apparent that making the hanging knees fit perfectly was going to be a challenge well beyond my capability. So I had a read of Antscherl’s book on the Fully Framed Model, and he suggested that it was quite as likely for the lodging knees to cover the entire distance between the beams – unlike the current plans where the knees do not do so.

 

If I were to make the lodging knees cover the full distance, this would make the construction of the hanging knees more easy as I’d only have to cut the pattern in relation to the planking below the beams. So that’s exactly what I did.

 

Notch placement for the ledges

 

In order to have the notches for the ledges between carlings line up across the width of the section, I placed the carlings in their notches and only then drew the lines across them from knee to knee using the position of the notches on the knees as reference points (and using a pair of dividers as markers). I then took down the carlings and cut the notches for the ledges before gluing them in place.

 

Attached File  P1020373 annot.jpg   352.72KB   0 downloads

 

After all this, placing the ledges was fairly straightforward.

 

Attached File  P1020376s.jpg   223.68KB   0 downloads

 

Attached File  P1020380s.jpg   220.86KB   0 downloads

 

Of course there are lots of errors and slight misalignments, but as I said above, it makes for good practice for the gun deck.

 

The next challenge, though, is to work out how to make and cut accurately the hanging knees for the lower deck.

 

Onwards and upwards (to the gun deck eventually, that is)!

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#32
Dubz

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That looks very very nice and clean Tony! :-) Good Job.

 

Dirk


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Member of the NRG
On build: HMC Sherbourne, USS Syren, Maria HF.31 Fishing Ewer, USS Confederacy
Next on list: Dutch Gunboat No5

Done: Revenue Cutter Alert

Gallery: Revenue Cutter AlertSwift

 

My Image Host: http://lychee.indee.de/


#33
cog

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Love the look of it. Any reason for the epoxy?


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Carl

Builds
Kit Wood
Dolphyn [Corel] 1:68, Higaki Kaisen [Woody Joe] 1:72
Kit Plastic

IJN Musashi [Tamiya] 1:350

 

Finished builds

Scratch: Sea Witch 1:109


#34
tkay11

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Thanks again, Carl and Dirk.

 

As to the epoxy, Carl, it may be just my imagination, but I have the belief that it provides a stronger bond and I use it where I think there may be greater stresses than normal on a joint -- particularly when handling the whole model while sanding or whatever.

 

I have found that while I concentrate on one particular action I quite often find I'm bending another piece out of its place, or, as I found with the frames, breaking them apart at the glue joins. I found that when I used epoxy those frame joints did not come apart again -- it was only those glued with PVA that did so.

 

Of course I am quite ready to be corrected about the relative merits of PVA and epoxy so please do fire away!

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#35
GuntherMT

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Excellent work!


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#36
Mike40

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Hi Tony. Many good ideas for your build in this log and good progress. As for the irregularities on your frames, I would suggest you cut out straight sections with a flat bottom in the problem areas and just glue in a large pieces of matching wood and then trim them with a knife to the correct shapes. It will not be a noticeable fix and you will not have to disassemble anything to get the job done.


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Mike,

an American living in Norway

 

 

Current build:  Galley Washington - 1:48 - Scratch POF - NRG plans

 


#37
tkay11

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Yes, good idea Mike. Thanks for the tip. Interestingly I applied the same concept to a beam I cut 0.3mm too short. I glued on an old shaving and then sanded down gently for the correct fit. I'll be doing more of that in the future! On reflection I could have done that with the hanging knees, and I reckon I'll do that for the aftmost hanging knee adjoining the beam arm.

 

And Brian: Thanks for the compliment!

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#38
Mike Y

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Love reading your log, feels like building it myself :) these "inline" comments on the photos are very handy!
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#39
tkay11

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Thanks, Mike. I do them for other beginners like myself who are probably just as puzzled as I am at several stages of the build and who find pictures easier to think from than words (as I do). But I'd like to return the compliment as I very much appreciate the detail you put into your own logs.

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#40
cog

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Tony,

 

I think glue is a very personal preference, so I just let you use your epoxy. It was merely interest. I do understand the reason, and subsequently the need to apply it


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Carl

Builds
Kit Wood
Dolphyn [Corel] 1:68, Higaki Kaisen [Woody Joe] 1:72
Kit Plastic

IJN Musashi [Tamiya] 1:350

 

Finished builds

Scratch: Sea Witch 1:109





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