davyboy

Hi Allan,I had a look at Steels tables. I appreciate he's from a later period but I would think that rigging size proportions would be similar Needless to say he doesn't cover late 17th century 56 gun 4th rates. I've copied this for a 50 gunner and a 64.
 
50 guns :- foreyard braces 3 1/2", pendants 4 1/2". mainyard braces 3 1/2", pendants 4 1/2". crossjack braces 2" pendants 2 1/2".
64 guns :- foreyard braces 4", pendants 5". mainyard braces 4", pendants 5". crossjack braces 2 1/2", pendants 3 1/2".
 
It would appear that the crossjack braces are a little more than half the size of the mainyard braces,the pendants a bit more. Perhaps you might be able to work something out from the calculations you made from Lees formula. Personally I would round-up or down to the next 1" or 1/2"size,I don't think ropes were sized within 1/8". For example 3 1/8" to 3"or 3 1/2" and 1 7/8" to 2". Anyway,I'm no expert but hope this may help. 
 
Regards,
 
Dave 
 
 
 

Jim,I was a "crabfat"no pussers hard for us. But,try telling a "Dhobi wallah"not to starch and iron your "shreddies" along with your K.D. shorts and shirts was often a waste of time. Not so 'comfy'. 😢😢
 
Dave 

Jim,I was a "crabfat"no pussers hard for us. But,try telling a "Dhobi wallah"not to starch and iron your "shreddies" along with your K.D. shorts and shirts was often a waste of time. Not so 'comfy'. 😢😢
 
Dave 

Working on the paddle wheel has been a refreshing change of pace. As a reminder, here's one shot of a restored wheel at the museum (with me for scale); there are many more in this post from my design thread.

I couldn't measure the wheel directly, but sources say it's 28' (~8.5 m) in diameter. I know the width exactly because one of the axles is on display within the museum and I could photograph and measure it up close (see photo later in this post). I estimated the overall layout of the wheel by visual inspection of my photos, then drew up a plan on my computer that I could print out and use as a template. Luckily, the Arabia has 18 spokes, making a nice easy 20° angle between each. For contrast, Bertrand had something like 13 spokes, meaning none of them lined up properly and were harder to lay out cleanly.
 
To actually build the first ring, I drew on techniques I used to use when building Guillows balsa-frame aircraft. I laid the plan on a piece of cardboard and used sewing pins to mark the end of each spoke along the outside circumference:
 

I "sharpened" the end of each spoke at roughly the correct angle for all to fit together. On the real thing, each spoke's end would fit into a precisely cast iron hub, like this:
 

But I felt that my skill set wasn't up to trying to manufacture such a detailed piece, especially having to make three identical ones (so all the rings lined up). So I decided to fudge it by assembling the wheel spokes as a solid mass and placing a flat hub along the outside. Notice how all the spoke flanges face inward on the axle; this means they'll be barely visible on the finished model anyway, so my approach should simulate the right effect. I may even draw in some faint black lines or shading to suggest the presence of the flanges separating the spokes.
 
Given that choice, I laid out all 18 spokes on the plan and used more pins to hold them in place. I filed a slight notch at the outer end of each spoke so they'd sit against the end pins more securely.
 

Once I was happy with the layout, I smeared wood glue within the central "sharpened" zone so it would sink into the slight gaps between spokes and bind them together. When that dried, I flipped the assemblage and repeated the process. I was careful not to use too much so that it wouldn't drip down and bind the spokes to the paper plan. I kept the glue within the rough area that would be covered by the wheel hub, to minimize any change in appearance of the finished wheel. This worked great; the wood absorbed the glue and held fast as a tight structure with no reinforcement necessary:
 

Next, I started filling in the rings. I started with the outermost one, figuring that it would hold the spokes in the proper alignment while the rest were filled in. Starting from the inside out had too much potential to deform the spokes and end up with an uneven and unsightly pattern. This was the correct decision.
 
I cut each piece using a combination of sharp hobby knife, sharp blade on a "chopper" type platform cutter, and a small razor saw. I used files, sandpaper, and the hobby knife to adjust the end angles until I was satisfied, then glued the piece in place. Some weren't perfect and there are subtle differences in spacing between spokes, but they're all but invisible in the collective view. Here's the wheel with the first two rings completed:
 

And here's the finished wheel, sanded to a smoother finish:
 

I'm quite happy with how this turned out. Of course, now I have to make at least two more. It was a fun project the first time, we'll see how I feel after repeating it. I say "at least two more" because each wheel consists of three such assemblages, so in theory I need six of these. However, I'm only planning to leave one side of the Arabia open to view, as I did on Bertrand, so I need one fully developed wheel. As the other side will be enclosed, it seems unnecessary to build a full wheel that will be 90% hidden within the paddlebox. So right now I'm considering only building the lowest part of a "dummy" wheel for that side and hiding it in fully planked paddlebox. I think by the time I build three of these, that will feel like the right decision.
 
It took a week to build this first one, but perhaps the next two will go a bit faster now that I've worked out my methods. In any case, it was nice to celebrate my birthday today with a finished mini-project. It's raining here, so we're having a quiet indoor day with good food, which is just fine with me at 39. We're making fried rice with garden produce and homemade sweet-and-sour-sauce for lunch, then German potato pancakes, homemade breadstick-pretzels, and pear sauce (fruit from our orchard) for dinner with a coconut-lemon rum cake. Will probably open a bottle of homemade mead to celebrate.
 
Thanks for reading

Hello everybody
 
@Carl : Have it asked at Jan. We have the same opinion.
@ Marcus and Steven : Thanks for the comments.
 
After installing the rudder are all deck beams in place. And i started with the holes for the hatches.  The width is approximately 120 cm (about 4 feet) on scale 1/1
 
 
Work in progress


A first test to see what it will look like.  The thickness of these deckplanks will not be visible later
I make it too thick, this will give extra strength to the deck

 
Further finishing, the deck beam in the center of the hatch will later be removed later on

 
To be able to lift the anchor there must be a capstan on this deck.
The capstan is build very basic. And is placed at the only place where there is still enough room left .

 
Thanks for following

 

its just over 2 years since i did any work on the Victory, so as of today she is back on the work bench, new mancave and my fav build, what more could a 60 year old ask for

Thanks Dave. If you have some 'deep thinking' to do. Nothing like like sitting with a bucket of hot water between your knees, a lump of Pusser's hard and giving your 'skivvies' a good going over.!
Jim

Hi Michael,  From what I understand,  the american navy strapped a thimble to the yard and attached the thimble of the block with another timble,  there is a name for this method,  but I don't remember it right now.  The americans were inovative in their rigging and europe tended to follow . -Hal     

Mondfeld, in Historic Ship Models, says ( with regard to Europe )  the pendant was very short in ancient/medieval  times and grew longer until the 16/17th centuries when it was
4/10 ( 2/5 ) the length of the yard.
In the course of the 18th century it was shortened until around 1800, when it was situated immediately on the yard arm.
 
I would suspect US practices would have closely followed Europe in many respects.

Jim,I really do like your paintings,very good indeed. "Dhobi day",that saying brought back memories for me. Over 50 years ago when I was in Aden we had a "Dhobi wallah",who did all our washing for ten bob (500 fils) a fortnight. 
Regards,
 
Dave 
 
 

Jim,I really do like your paintings,very good indeed. "Dhobi day",that saying brought back memories for me. Over 50 years ago when I was in Aden we had a "Dhobi wallah",who did all our washing for ten bob (500 fils) a fortnight. 
Regards,
 
Dave 
 
 

Jim,I really do like your paintings,very good indeed. "Dhobi day",that saying brought back memories for me. Over 50 years ago when I was in Aden we had a "Dhobi wallah",who did all our washing for ten bob (500 fils) a fortnight. 
Regards,
 
Dave 
 
 

Somewhere in the Med. Two Decker heads for the sea, another refitting masts and rigging. However it is 'Dhobi' day on the Frigate with the crew's hammocks strung in the rigging to dry.
W/C 14” X 10”
Jim
 

In Steel's Art of Rigging he desribes the method of hoisting up and rigging the top mast.  According to this method the top mast is hoisted up  using a hawser rigged in the old manner (pre 1640 or so) as has been described in posts above. The hawser was used to hoist the top mast high enough to pass through the lower mast cap where at the topmast cross tress and head rigging were fitted over the top mast head.  The top mast was then held in  place by tackles from the lower mast head while the hawser is un-rove.  The top rope pendant is then rove in the method described by Lees (1640 on).
 
So, everyone is correct here.  The top rope, after 1640, as described by Lees was never intended to allow the top mast to be lowered to or hoisted from the deck.  That job was accomplished by a separate line.  Which also sort of explains the differences in whether the top rope was un-reeved or left rigged during different time periods.
 
Regards,

The carriage is held together with long bolts.  I settled on 3d finish nails as the simulated bolts.  The heads are about 3/32" in diameter - about right at this scale.  I cleaned them up and blackened the heads.  The brackets are inset from the edge of the base by 1/16".  I used double sided tape to tape some 1/16" planking to the brackets to maintain this spacing.  The brackets were double sided taped to the base  Then I drilled up into each bracket through the base.  The simulate bolts were cut short but still function like real bolts in holding the structure together as the glue dries.

Louie Da Fly...I haven't got any plans for this build. All the work I've done so far is from photos I've found on the internet and photos of the ship when I went to see it last year 😊

thanks for the responses, I believe I figured it out...now onto the channels and deadeyes. Thanks for the help!

Regarding saw discs. Both the tungsten tip one and the steel wood disc are very good. Could not really tell a huge difference for the dimensions I cut. The metal cutting HSS I found completely useless. I could not cut 1 mm brass, it was even dangerous. Maybe it's me though.
 
Another thing, I ve read that the bearings on the saw are not shielded and gather dust easily. I ve attached the admiral's decommissioned vacuum cleaner and it sucks all the dust away, the dust extraction port is excellent. Highly recommended set up.
 
As Brian and Bill say, it can send pieces flying so wear glasses and count your fingers. I am ashamed to say though I took the guard immediately off...

Dave, mark Druxey, Roger.All information presented was useful , Best of all I am an excellent with spit.
Gene
 

Warnerade,I posted a reply to your query in the masting rigging and sails section.
 
Dave 

Hi Warnerade,
The kit drawing is wrong. Where it shows it attaching to the fore topmast should have a block or thimble there. Fit one or the other then follow the rigging diagram shown in your first photo which is correct.  It looks like an eyebolt is shown in the kit drawing. you can always cheat by turning that 90° but the stay has to be run through it and rigged as in the first photo. Hope this helps.
 
Dave 

Ed, observing the log since long and building YA following your plans and books. Its a great pleasure to see the model coming up slowly. Currently I started with the main deck. All parts are prepared and assembling will start tomorrow. Your standard is very hard to meet.

Oh Brian you have outed me, I have known this all along and the personal name for this cutter in all my files is Kingfisher The Model Maker plans also call this boat Kingfisher There are a few other pictures of CK482 which I have in my files but I am unable to share them because I do not have the source.
 
There is another model on this forum with this name so I did not want to put up this name, also I only used the basic bulkhead lines from the MM plans and then developed my own, and drew upon the general fleet for other details. I have copies of the Stone plans that are available for download on the "smackdock" here is another one that would make a great model it is called "pioneer" and another one from the register "Maria"
I really like these boats. I am glad that there is a resurgence in restoring and preserving these vessels.
 
Michael 

William show what all that work leads to.
 
Great work, BE.  That's a (characteristically) nice addition of putting in the ladderway & the lower deck.  Having a way for the eye to continue as though into a greater space is always compelling, and very much in keeping with Georgian designs.
 
Cheers,
 
Martin

Post 39
A return to the inboard - Fitting the False Deck
The False Deck has been formed as detailed in Post 37, but before fitting it is useful to mark the deck beam positions which of course don't follow the bulkheads but relate closely to the centre line fittings where in reality carlings' ledges, and framing would be involved.

2517
I have taken the 'beam' positions from the kit deck plan where they are marked.

1972
They follow fairly closely the deck beams as shown on the Admiralty plans for Cheerful.

2518
You will note they do not butt to the edges of the centre line fittings template marks but allow for the coamings etc.

2519
A final bit of tweaking to ensure both halves fitted together without buckling and that the reference lines matched.

2537
But before gluing into place...
One of my little foibles is that I like to have a realistic view below decks where lights or openings are concerned.
I made a small modification below the skylight to give the impression of a lower deck.
 
The bulkhead was cut away to form  false deck beams and create a space.
A false deck was fitted which was then planked over.

2545
I followed this up with a similar modification for the Ladder way; I am thinking of having the lid cover/doors open.

2550
I will probably end up also creating space beneath the gratings, I don't really like sticking them on solid board.
A short break now while I adjourn to enjoy the delights of Dorsetshire. 🙂

2549
William also looks like he's ready for a break from the shipyard.
 
Cheers,
 
B.E.
05/09/2018