amateur
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Masts and rigging both standing and running
amateur replied to rafterrat_2005's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
There are various books showing what you need: the antomy of the ship-series, or Rigging period ships (Peterson) are nice examples. The advantage of these books is that they show the rigging part by part, instead of just showing the final result. MAkes it easier to understand... Jan -
Going back on your traces ?! I like the margingplank! Working from the centreline outward is indeed the better idea,: as the planks aren't never absolutely straight, it is difficult to keep them perfectly paralellel to the ships centreline. Working from the centerline makes that the problem is on the sides, and not in the middle of the deck (were it is most easy to see...) Jan
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Hi Drazen, On a Dutch forum, Ab told us once that the danger of the drawings of Otte Blom is that he is giving such wonderful detail, that you tend to forget that there are many things we actually don't know for sure.... Jan
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Other rules, or perhaps: no rules..... (which somtetimes boils down to 'anything goes' as long as it is practical and technically sound....) Jan
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Hi Mark, And still...on the existing models and illustrations of Dutch ships of war, there are no coamings on the gundecks. Jan
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Her end, after a century of service, was fire: she was burned on the mudflats, in order to retrieve all the metal in her hull. Jan
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Actually, IMO that does make it not less saddening. Jan
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You can always claim there is gun on board, no one will lift the cover Jan
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Different from Winter, but still, also in Wasa, there is this raised plank fixed on top of the deck beam between the gratings. Jan
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Another remark with respect to Dik: Dik did his research in the late seventies (he published his material from 1983 onwards). His main objective was a model that looked authentic. He used the Zweidecker as one of his main reference points. So concluding that Dik and Winter do give the same information is kind of circular reasoning.... Otte Blom was slightly more critical with respect to his sources, although he tends to draw too much detail in his drawings. (Some people say that he is suggesting too much certainty.) In the end, his main body of reference is the same as that of Dik and other amateur-researchers: Winter and the drawings of Van der Velde) I know that Ab doesn't beleive in this raised part between the 'schaarstookken, and therefore has no need to have an additional opart of wood fixed on top of the deck beams. Dik based his drawing clearly on pic 17 in Winter: there is the same construction shown: the schaarstooken are slightly raised ovr the deck beams, and in between the beams are raised to the level of the schaarstokken, in order to accomodate the gratings. I don't know what the real ship should look (after all the ship in Winter is only a model) Does Wasa give any info? Jan
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Hello Titanic, Feel free to join the game! But..you are only allowed to put up a new ship if you have correctly named the previous one, and the poster of that ship has acknowledged you were right. In this case Kevin can post a new picture. (and (hint:) ): we can see the name of the pics posted, so when you post a picture named olympic, we don't even need your hint with respect to the name of the ship ) Jan
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Sounds as if you don't like this OOB-version of a gun.... Jan
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For a moment I was thinking 'would there be any chance of a gunboat named Arklow...." Jan
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Hmmm... I see the model every day, otherwise I would have forgotten it... Far too less time to do some serious work on it. Jan
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Actually Ab WAS the lead restorer. He retired last year. The new display is nice, yes. I like the fact that Prins Willem is on display again. And is displayed 'the old fashioned way': just by itself, in a free standing glass case, so you can go round, and round, and round, and have a pretty good view of everything.... 'Modellen vertellen' is a very nice book indeed. Lots to see, lots to read, even (or especially) for those interested in the story instead of the models themselves. Jan
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Some american fishing boat, or something
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Pat: VolEndam, please...... Wefalck, your model ands its setting is absolutely fantastic. It is difficult to realize that the picture is larger than real life.... two questions: were did the tiller go and is there a bowsprit hidden under the foresail, or did you leave that one out? Jan
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As you seem to know both Ab and Herbert, you could as well ask them.... (both on the colours as well as the scuppers) Jan
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Can't find anything Austro and you're from Romania, so perhaps:Fulgerul?
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and the full hull (sorry, don't have other pics of the model, as it was behind glass using flash and taking close ups was out of the question...)
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This is the artitec model in Lelystad. The green is almost grey, and only slightly darker than the bronze guns. On the left of the puic you can (bit hazy) see the difference in the water-sprouts on the lower deck (round, sticking out of the hull) and the upper deck (just a hole (just below the guns)
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Hello Kester, Yes, I know that the ringbolts are a bit awkward... The gun however is fully run in in this pic, so that it is close to the wheels is understandable, but still.... Has perhaps something to do with the fact that the gun-reconstructions were done years after the ship was build.... I checked the drawings: in Batavia the ringbolts are plced on the so called 'schaarstokken', the heavier pieces of wood running from front to end. As it is a merchant ship, the area between these schaarstokken are almost entirely used for the main hatches to get the cargo into the deeper hull. There is no way in Batavia to get the ringbolts near the ships centerline, as was done tin the heavier ships of the line. Although, I checked on the zweidecker as photographed by Winter and there aoos the ringbolts are placed in the schaarstokken, and not on the decks center line. Jan
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I can tell you were this canon is living: Batavia, Lelystad The rigging of this gun is incomplete: there is no breachrope ('broektouw') that is intended to counteract the recoil of the gun. Also, the tackle intended to run the gun in, is not hooked to the ring in the deck, but also hooked into the same ringbolt in the hull to which the tackle intended to run the gun out is hooked. So: breachrope missing, and of the two tackles shown in this pic ones intended to go forward, the other backward. Jan
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I've been looking at the pics in Winter, but I can't see how exactly the thing is done there. On the model of the Prins Willem, there are only small wooden blocks on the outside, with a hole in it, suggesting something like Dik has drawn. On the other hand, the round holes in Winter suggest something like a lead pipe, just sticking through the hull..... Witsen in his book on the PInas, just draws a simple lead pipe (plate XLIII). However, on plate 33 he draws it as a square pice of wood (bosch), and in the tekst he gives the dimensions of it, and shows also the small leather tube that is fixed to it, to prevent water getting into the ship through these wooden pipes. Hoving writes that the bos is set through the 'lijfhout', more or less like Dik is showing it. However, ZP is much later than Witsen's Pinas..... The Artitec-model in Lelystad shows round (wooden?) pipes through the hull at the lower gundeck, while there are just (square) holes in the hull at the upper deck. Jan
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