dafi

So then I took out the canvas for some artistry, just to please Jan ;-) Those officer´s cods kept me busy for almost 2 months ... ... first busy at work and then lot of wrong trials. First tried to pimp the cardboard pieces I used to determine the size of the cabins. Looked crap ... Then thinner cardboard - looked crap too ... Then i forgot how I did the canvas for the bulkheads - lot of crappy trials with crappy results ... Then the canvas alone - too sloppy ... Then inserted the bottom frame but the sides - too sloppy ... Only when I introduced the top lathes like in the original, then it works - result, keep as close to the original as possible :-) And then the same game with the hangers. First tricked myself by trying to trick ... Then the next try with the rope looped through with the wrong result of the rope coming out just one side. Looked again at the original and knotted the 6 ropes each of them single. Looked already better but the top knot looked too messy still. So used a comb to organise the ropes ... ... and it already looked better :-) Fitted together ... ... put the laundry ... ... and dry fitted. Cheers, Daniel

... and who´s up for some dirty laundry with me? ... ... XXXDAn

OK Jan, canvas I will fix just for you to call me artist ;-) XXXDAn

Oh ... ...something appears ... ... XXXDAn

Pftttt... ... ... all that dust ... *blow* ... oh damn, where are you, can´t see you any more! ... ... does Anybody recognise my smells? XXXDAn *waitingforthedusttogodown*

Just to start this entry I would like to express that I appreciate very much the new results of the research, as every new input is always welcome. Of course, this "Hello-Kitty-meets-Happy-Pony"-version is quite outrageous for plenty model makers - but why? Simply because many of us are quite stubborn and fat headed and do not like changes, especially on iconic things like this. And that includes me too ;-) Those were the correct colors in about 2003, samples I was given during the modelers tour on the ship ... ... I even do not remember what the green was used for :-) The thing changing most is the ochre. So have a closer look. But it is not that outrageous if looked closer. Jan Marten in our german forum posted the picture showing 50 shades of ochre ;-) If you take the medium reddish tone and mix in more white than it was used before, you will get the "new" color, as suggested by the latest research. I think the red one on the "summit" would create an even more exalted reddish tone. But now some very personal thoughts about the latest research and why I am not rushing into repainting my model. First of all: We are talking about a time of Pre-RAL, Pre-Pantone and Pre-other-Color-Charts. My personal belief is, that the ships usually looked much more like patchwork color wise. Just some reasons for my thoughts: The ochre paint came as a barrel, how much did the paint match the other barrels of the delivery, not speaking of other charges from different provenances? If you look at the picture of the ochre, you really have 50 shades in there if not even more! What shade was meant to be painted, if yellow or red ochre was meant to be used? Second the paint was mixed by hand by adding white - how much was in the eye of the master painter. Did he have the experience to match the existing paint, as wet paint looks different than the dry one? Also what were the differences if some pigments were stuck on the bottom of the barrel? It is great that the research used old paint samples to determinate the original color, but where was it taken from? What is known, when it was exactly painted? As most of the outer hull was exchanged already multiple times, where was exact spot of the sample, was it outboards or inboards, was it the original 1803 main paint - with all its variations, when possibly every barrel was mixed by hand - or was it some 1804 repairs or late 1805 post Trafalgar patches? How close was the research to determine the exact timing? Also how much were the studies taking care the possible changing of the color by time, saltwater, sun and interaction with newer paints? On the Vic in P. there is a interesting exhibit in the middle deck: it is said to be part ot the original foremast. If the color would be also original, it shows itself today as a nice Nato-drab ;-) Also if one looks at the contemporary paintings - as seen in the entries before - the english ships show commonly a more warm yellow ochre, while the french and spanish show all different shades from yellow ochre to pink and even red. But of course, this could be only an artists convention to pinpoint the english ships. However also Turner used the more yellowish tone, and I know his deficiencies in perspective and technical details, but he was master in the use of colors and he saw the ship in real life after returning from Trafalgar. Too there are the carpenter expenses to have a closer look at. Goodwin had an interesting article in the Mariner`s Mirror about it, just to round up the discussion (thanks to Achilles for pointing it out in our german forum): http://seaphoenix.com/index.php/publicat...-victory-yellow So I will leave you in the mess of your thoughts, to me it still is worth some nice discussions and that is the really interesting bit, as I like the idea to stir up the model makers minds and keep them flexible :-) And if I say patchwork for the paint job, I really mean it, not as neat as usually shown, just another hint - would ever somebody have dared to build the real existing planking scheme of the Vasa on his model without having seen the original ? ;-) So do not be upset about the new color, do see it as an opportunity to discuss this issue even further, who knows what even later "latest research" will show! As a resumee: I am skeptical in how far this examined color samples are applicable for the whole of the hull including trucks. So find your own answers or tastes :-) Cheers, DAniel

Yes a nice little blanket with plenty full of sweetly illustrated bees ;-) And then I am reading Maya the Bee stories until we both are sound asleep ... XXXDAn

Loving your model means MUCH more than only pampering it on ones lap ... Even though it can be difficult to be on holidays with the small ones. - Are we already there? - I have to do pipi! - I am Hungry! - I am bored! *bitchingaround* But this has not to be like this! The trick is to get the small ones interested into the trip and get them enthusiastic about it. With a little bit of commitment it is not that tricky ... ... so I showed my small one the landcape ... ...explained where I was the day before ... ... and promised to take her there the day she will be big enough. Also zoos are a winner ... ... she especially liked the two rheas. Or just doing a bit of sport together ... ... ping-pong was the favorite ... ... but the most important ... ... was ... ... just to spend time together ... ... telling stories ... ... about god the universe and everything ... ... and both of us already found a good and relaxing sleep together :-) It is a tough and responsible job to be a good ship-dad, but I hope that I am on the right way, are you too? Cheers, Daniel

Horatio: So my dear Hardy, this is the place I ought to fall? Thomas Mastermann: Yes Sir, we thought that a brass plate would help you to identify the right spot. Horatio: Oh, that is so kind of you all. Thomas Mastermann: Your humble servant. Horatio: Oh my Hardy!

Wonderful work, love it :-) XXXDAn

Mass Production? No problem. Here you can see my minion Kevin producing the barrels and buckets. Next he had to pack the chests. On this Vic, they were not for the personal belongings of the sailors but belonged for the gear of the mess: spare parts for the guns, cleaning and mending, coocking and dining, short everything that could be needed on short notice without having to go to the stores in the orlop. Then my yellow ones distributed the barrels and buckets. The barrels were for the already distributed rations of the mess, one had a convenient size to sit on. The buckets were for catching food from the galley, for cleaning and for the shitting in bad weather - please guys make sure not to mix them up! Here able seaman George is checking if the chest with the spare equipment of the guns is properly packed - the surplus tackles and the slide trucks in case the axxis of the carriage is shot of - everything looks fine :-) And what is in the kits? There were the personal belongings of the sailors, look, here someone is searching for something inside ... Cheers, Daniel

No good picture as it shows several ships that never encountered each other in those outfits: It is a commemorative picture of some of Nelsons ships, painted without being there, hence the anachronisms in Vic´s stern. But BE is quite right. Me too I never saw the color from the research in any of the contemporary pictures apart from Santissima Trinidad. Would like to know more about the way, that they used to get to this result. The piece of mast - said to be original - shows almost nato olive/drab if still authentic. Funnily, the pictures of my second visit of the Vic show a color like this, but i think the white balance was wrong then. Or was it premonitory?!? XXXDAn

Too much "Hello Kitty" That was Nelsons biggest trick: The paint: The french lying on the decks of laughter and could not fight any more properly ´cos of the tears in their eyes ;-) XXXDAn See also: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/11229-hms-victory-re-paint/#entry341339

"... whon knows were this will end ..." This will end straight in the heart of the year 2525 ... ... or sooner ... ... or later ... XXXDAn

Hello Kitty ;-) No wonder the french got irritated ... XXXDAn

And now, wittness a moment of historical grandeur: It is finally invented, the WIMMELMODEL! Look for the 3 minions ... ... papagena ... ... banana ... ... bunda ... ...hihihihihihi... XXXDAn

Coming events are casting their chests before ... XXXDAn

Hello Jan perfectly right. This is is a replacement "slide" in case the original axis is damaged and no spare wheel could be fixed. I think with the adrenalin up the crew would manage to somehow lift the gun by the means of jacks or levers to replace the missing wheel. The half wheel has the square hole to fit the original axxis and the missing "wings" are no problem if the nails go in at an angle of 45°, anyway much easier to hammer ;-) Röding was a tea merchant that published his work in between 1793 and 1798, so being contemporary to Steel. His work even went straight into the first german Deutsches Wörterbuch (English: The German Dictionary) from Brothers Grimm in 1838 (also known for their fairy tales collection). XXXDAn

Just found tome 4 :-) https://ia902700.us.archive.org/2/items/bub_gb_SOZWAAAAcAAJ/bub_gb_SOZWAAAAcAAJ.pdf XXXDAn

Figure 321 if that helps :-) You have a link for the online edition of the text books? Cheers, Daniel

Just look through the volume with the plates :-) XXXDAn

@ Henry: Wonderful catch at the Encyclopedia Britannica ! Are there any pictures from the act of shipping Constitution´s rudder? That would be the confirming piece. Cheers, Daniel

... an´now comes Röding :-) Allgemeines Worterbuch der Marine – 1798 by Johann Hinrich Roding https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Hinrich_Röding http://www.lot-tissimo.com/de/i/9163564/roeding-woerterbuch-der-marine-3-bde-schiffahrt-roeding-j-h-allgemeines-woerterbuch-der-marine-in http://www.zvab.com/buch-suchen/titel/allgemeines-woerterbuch-der-marine/autor/roeding XXXDAn

Some more hints is Nares (I hope as it was late when I found it ... :-) Eventhough it is an emergency rudder it states the same purpose: shipping the rudder :-) There is a quite similar drawing in NMM ZAZ. "... to facilitate the hanging of the rudder." Not to be mistaken: Marquardt shows in Schoners a hole as part of a lock, but placed far more inside See N#2. Cheers, Daniel

Thank you popeye, this is like I was guessing in first place Just getting together facts. - The holes are on purpose and go though and are - in case of the Constitution - even lined with lead - the placement appears well chosen and is even recorded in official plans - the lead usually points to a rope passing through as it avoids chafing If I understand the description well, it is like the sketch I did some time ago for the original discussion in the makeover thread: - If the rudder is hanging over the guedons, it can be directed into the right position by two ropes - The red rope can pull the rudder into the starboard direction and can be released by pulling port, the green vica-versa. - Once the rudder is in place, noboby has to dive to undo the fixing of the ropes, one just pulls them out