tkay11

Good progress, Rob. I like the brass cannon. I agree about the difficulties with the walnut trucks. The kit walnut is very flaky and difficult to get to a nice finish, so it's good to see the result you've achieved. Tony

That's a very nice compliment, Christian. Thanks. From my point of view it was very much more pleasurable than doing it with a scroll saw. The lack of noise was a very important part of that! Interestingly, it doesn't take that much longer either. The scroll saw is a keeper, though, for the times when a lot has to be done. I think that it's not so much any particular skill that I have, but the little jig that I used that I saw on a YouTube video about how to use a jeweller's saw. That long thin line down the middle really does help keep the saw vertical. I don't have the link any more, but I'm sure a search would find it. Thanks also to those who've been sending me their 'likes'! Tony

Ha! Having thought about it in relation to another sawing question (this time the waterway on the lower deck of the Triton cross-section) I realised how simple it would be. The reason I was in a bind was that I was thinking of cutting the angles on a 2mm plank. The moment I realised that I just have to turn the diagram 90 degrees it was clear that I could use a long and wide block to slice off planks with the correct bevel. That way I could also just push the block 2.44mm to the side for each set of slices Sorry to have wasted everyone's time, but in case anyone's interested, here's a drawing of explanation: Now back to the waterways! Tony

Thanks for the likes, everyone! I forgot to mention in the log that my really most favourite tool is the TurboCAD programme. It makes adjustments to the plans extremely easy -- especially when I have to make adjustments as a result of my own errors! Tony

The hanging knees I spent some time thinking how to make the hanging knees. The most helpful thing was to cut the shapes using traced outlines of the knees from the plans, and see how they matched the dimensions on the model. This showed me that I had to make the knees slightly thicker (siding dimension) and add a bit of height. I then measured the thicknesses of the wall at the beam clamps and the lower plank strakes, which showed me by how much I had to adjust the steps. I transferred these measurements to the CAD outlines. At first I had thought I’d use a scroll saw to cut out the hanging knees. On reflection I thought this would not allow the very fine cutting needed for shaping the steps of the knees against the planks. I also experimented with cutting the steps out with a chisel, but this was a total failure. In the end I realised that the best way to do it was in fact the simplest and easiest – using a jeweller’s saw! This turned out to be fairly quick and accurate, with just a little bit of trimming to do with a barrette file. The only slightly tricky knees to do were the ones against the beam arms, since they have to be angled with respect to the hull wall, and shaped against the curve of the arms. However, even that didn’t take up too much time. I’ve shown these aspects in the pictures below. Now I can think about the extent to which I will plank the deck. Tony

There were lots of Speedy builds on the Russian-speaking forums. However you'd need to use a web translation service to work your way through and see if your questions were answered, or join and ask the question. I can't speak Russian, but I have the book and the plans and decided against building it, partly because of the issues you raised. Maybe others with more knowledge than I on this forum can help here, but it may be you have to compromise and re-draw your plans, or not try to match it to the NMM measurements. It should be easy enough to do with a free CAD or drawing programme. As far as I understand it bulkhead positions in POB models are more a matter of convenience and don't relate to station positions -- if that's the concern you have. It'll be interesting to see you you sort this one out, as it might stimulate me to have another look! Good luck! Tony

Thanks, Mark. I've just been figuring out how to cut out the knees accurately. Guess what! Yes, the trusty old jeweller's saw comes to the rescue. And I was just about to reach for the scroll saw! Tony

Thanks, Mike. I do them for other beginners like myself who are probably just as puzzled as I am at several stages of the build and who find pictures easier to think from than words (as I do). But I'd like to return the compliment as I very much appreciate the detail you put into your own logs. Tony

Yes, good idea Mike. Thanks for the tip. Interestingly I applied the same concept to a beam I cut 0.3mm too short. I glued on an old shaving and then sanded down gently for the correct fit. I'll be doing more of that in the future! On reflection I could have done that with the hanging knees, and I reckon I'll do that for the aftmost hanging knee adjoining the beam arm. And Brian: Thanks for the compliment! Tony

Thanks again, Carl and Dirk. As to the epoxy, Carl, it may be just my imagination, but I have the belief that it provides a stronger bond and I use it where I think there may be greater stresses than normal on a joint -- particularly when handling the whole model while sanding or whatever. I have found that while I concentrate on one particular action I quite often find I'm bending another piece out of its place, or, as I found with the frames, breaking them apart at the glue joins. I found that when I used epoxy those frame joints did not come apart again -- it was only those glued with PVA that did so. Of course I am quite ready to be corrected about the relative merits of PVA and epoxy so please do fire away! Tony

So practise I did, and I still have a way to go before the notches are perfect, but the nice thing is that the lower deck gives practice for the gun deck which will be more visible! Getting the beams on I thought it best to make the entire aft beam, beam arm, carling and ledge assembly before gluing the beams to the hull as I thought it would be too difficult to place the arms, carlings and ledges afterwards. That pesky little aft-most carling which will have no support at its aft end was epoxied in and trued up with a square beforehand as well. Once I had done that, I glued the beams to the hull with rapid-setting epoxy and held them down with the simple clamping arrangement shown in the photo. Lodging knees I then had a look at the lodging and hanging knees. It was immediately apparent that making the hanging knees fit perfectly was going to be a challenge well beyond my capability. So I had a read of Antscherl’s book on the Fully Framed Model, and he suggested that it was quite as likely for the lodging knees to cover the entire distance between the beams – unlike the current plans where the knees do not do so. If I were to make the lodging knees cover the full distance, this would make the construction of the hanging knees more easy as I’d only have to cut the pattern in relation to the planking below the beams. So that’s exactly what I did. Notch placement for the ledges In order to have the notches for the ledges between carlings line up across the width of the section, I placed the carlings in their notches and only then drew the lines across them from knee to knee using the position of the notches on the knees as reference points (and using a pair of dividers as markers). I then took down the carlings and cut the notches for the ledges before gluing them in place. After all this, placing the ledges was fairly straightforward. Of course there are lots of errors and slight misalignments, but as I said above, it makes for good practice for the gun deck. The next challenge, though, is to work out how to make and cut accurately the hanging knees for the lower deck. Onwards and upwards (to the gun deck eventually, that is)! Tony

The best thing to do is to send an email to Proxxon. Whenever I have a question I write to Proxxon in Germany (in English). They always reply quickly and are very helpful. Tony

I went with 8 3-pounders rather than 6, more to fill the ports! There was lots of discussion about this in MSW1.0. Lots of discussion too about whether to fit gunport lids. Some of those discussions are in a few of the existing logs. The kit barrels are too large for 3-pounders and the carriages not at all to scale or correct proportion, so if you're after a truer representation you have to make your own. There are plans in the resources section for an Armstrong 3-pounder. Tony

I forgot to add that you'll probably find that no two cutters are alike. They varied not only from decade to decade and type to type, but also from yard to yard and from owner to owner. Even more, you'll probably find that no two models or paintings of any cutter are exactly alike. It might be that if everyone stuck rigidly to the kit parts and the kit plans then you'd get some similarity, but even then you might find variations in sails, rigging etc. You'll note, for example, that the Trial was exactly that -- a trial ship (testing a lowering keel) built 27 years after the Sherbourne. So it had its own unique characteristics. This adds up to a general statement: you can choose what you want to do, at a level that's comfortable for you, with tools that you are comfortable with, with a level of detail that pleases you, and above all doing it in a way that keeps you happy while you accumulate skills and knowledge. Tony

I took a lot of pictures of cutter models when I visited the National Maritime Museum at Chatham. I had asked to see the ones in their collection and they brought the models out to show me in their warehouse. They moved the Trial to their collection there, and I included pictures of that as well. These pictures are far more detailed and close up than the ones you can see on the NMM website. You can see the pictures of the various models in my posting '18th and early 19th Century cutter models', and lots of discussion about the details in my build log of the Sherbourne. You'll also see lots of great discussion and in-depth analysis in other builds of the Sherbourne by Kester, Dirk and Gregor (each of whom did much better research and building than I was able to), as well as similar analysis in Chuck's build of the cutter Cheerful. If you search for 'cutter' in the forum discussions you'll find a wealth of knowledge and insight that will help you should you want to improve on the accuracy of the kit. Tony

Wonderful work! Thanks so much for keeping up the detailed postings. They show what an interesting model this is. I have had the plans for a while now but am still learning my basic framing techniques before I start. So I hope that one day I'll be using your log to help me. Tony

Thanks, Christian. Let's hope it continues to do so! I see lots of complexity and challenge ahead. Looking forward to it! Tony

Thanks for the likes, everyone! These, along with many, many cups of strong tea, will sustain me in my search for notch nirvana. It's possible several pages on the art of practice, failure and practice again will follow. I sure am glad I didn't start all over again as I can foresee that there will be several points along the way at which I will contemplate exactly the same. Tony

Marking the beams for cutting notches Once the beams were curved correctly, I placed them on the deck clamps and measured the centre points over the keel with a set square. To ensure I replaced them correctly and to allow for variations of width from the centre line, I marked each beam on its upper surface with a ‘P’ and an ‘S’ to mark Port and Starboard. I then took the beams down and marked the positions where cuts were to be made for the carlings and the arms. I had noted that many cut the notches for the carlings while the beams are fixed to the clamps, but I could not figure out a way of doing that which would be accurate. Some of those who build the cross section claim that they cut the notches while the beams are fixed because that allows for the curvature of the beam. However, I thought that simply placing the beam on its side on the plan would allow accurate placement of the cutting marks while compensating for the curvature. Once the beams were roughly marked out, I then clamped them together to ensure that all the marks aligned. The need for lots of practice!!!! Once I’d done this, I realised that making the lattice of beams, carlings and ledges would require considerable practice in cutting notches accurately. So I set to with a scalpel and some mini-chisels I bought off a stall for £3. I used a set of dividers in association with the scalpel to mark the edges of the cuts. You can see some of the practice in the following photo: I quickly learnt: a.) that my chisels needed to be much, much SHARPER! b.) that I’d need to make handles for the chisels to allow me to have a good firm grip. So I went back to the trusty broom handle and fashioned a couple of chisel handles. I then spent a lot of time sharpening the chisels on 600 grit and 1200 grit diamond stones, and boy, did that make a difference!! (For those in the UK who are interested, I bought these from ArcEuroTrade for about £6 each. They really are worth it!) I’m now almost satisfied that I can cut the notches accurately, so I’ll be doing that for the next several days – and probably re-doing them as I make mistakes! Tony

When I was cutting bulkheads by hand, I preferred a jeweller's saw with a very fine blade to the slightly larger type of coping saw you show in the picture. That allowed me to cut really close to the line. As a result, using a drill-driven sanding drum like yours took less time and therefore less noise, but equally demanded really careful handling to avoid over-sanding. However, I found cutting so many pieces by hand tiring and when a nice low-cost re-furbished scroll saw came up on eBay I seized the opportunity and bought it. The sanding issues remain, but it's a whole lot quicker and less tiring now. You might find that it's better to buy a larger drum sander for your drill as you could then rotate it at a lower speed with less noise and greater accuracy. I've been contemplating doing that myself. Tony

Thanks again, Mark. I think I'll just go with the half and half idea. I have a feeling I'm being far too obsessional! Tony

Thanks, Mark. I also use the drawings direct from the pdfs when cutting, but I just can't see where on the drawings the carlings and ledges are shown in cross-section, i.e. height or depth. I can see length and breadth, but not height. So I assumed half the beam height for carlings (about 2mm) and half the carling height for ledges (about 1mm). I can't see that it matters, but thought I'd ask just in case there is a 'correct' answer. Tony

For wood glue, just soak it in isopropyl alchohol (isopropanol). It's easily available at chemists and eBay. I keep a 500ml bottle handy for all the mistakes I make. But you probably don't need to re-do. As has been said, it's just the first planking and sanding and filler does most of the job when mistakes are made. Some people see the first layer of planking as a kind of exercise to get to learn about planking. Tony

Just a quickie: am I right in assuming that the height of the carlings is about half the height of the beams, and that the height of the ledges is about half that of the carlings? (I'm working on the lower deck, but assume the dimensions would be the same for the gun deck). It's just that I can't see any heights referred to in the plans, and I thought I'd better make sure! If you want to give me the dimensions in full scale inches, that's ok as well! Thanks in advance for any input. Tony

I wouldn't be too disheartened at this stage, Patrick. Most of us have had similar experiences and it's likely either to be easy to re-do, or to work around -- especially as this is only the first planking and will be covered up. Photos will help enormously as that will allow others to see where the problem lies and what suggestions or advice to offer. Tony