tkay11

Thanks, Joel and Druxey. I am happy in following Harland as suggested by both of you. Interestingly there are a couple of ringbolts on the deck whose function was not given in the Sherbourne plans, but whose position is exactly right for the anchor tethering. Pete: eBay in the UK has lots of chain of various types. You have to specify links per inch or per cm, as well as structure (e.g. oval, stud link) and dimension (e.g. 1.5 x 1mm). There are also a few modelling shops (especially railway modelling) selling fine chain. Tony

I have just made the anchors for my Sherbourne, but am a little unclear as to how they would have been stowed. The AOTS book on the Alert shows the following: This is fairly similar to the plans with the kit which show the anchor stowed -- although the throats of the anchors on the Sherbourne plans are held by a rope. John Harland in his book on Seamanship in the Age of Sail also shows the anchor held by ropes. My question relates to the use of a chain as shown for the Alert. How would the chain round the throat have been fixed to the bulkhead? Presumably it can't just have been wound round itself -- or would that have been the way it was done? The question equally applies to rope fixing, because they'd need to be fixed very strongly to hold something that weighs 12cwt and is perched on the outside of the ship. I am tempted to use chain just because I have some of the appropriate size, but realise it may be inauthentic for a cutter that was some decades earlier than the Alert. Any comments on how the anchor may have been stowed, along with some details of how the ropes or chains were fixed to the bulwarks, would be very much appreciated. Thanks Tony

The link about the bulkheads is very interesting, Mark. I did have a look at the POB plans, but as I have POB plans of La Jacinthe, I'll probably do that instead at some stage in the future. I hadn't thought about the piracy problem, so I quite understand. As it is, now I have the complete plans, I am quite happy with rounding the dimensions to the nearest half mm in most cases. Thanks again Tony

Wonderful build! Congratulations! Tony

It's alright, Mark, I'm not really bothered. I took the measurements straight from the PDF after loading the plan both into TurboCAD and into Adobe Photoshop. Maybe if the plans were originally made in a CAD programme, then the CAD files could be left for downloading as well. Anyway, the important, great and lovely news is that I now have access to the full set! Whoopee (and thanks, Chuck)! I'll now just get on with it as these plans have the full overall measurements, and hope that I can do as well as you have done in following this intriguing path which, at every turn I have taken so far, is endlessly challenging and interesting. I think you know it was you that gave me the idea of moving from kit to cross-section to full build, so thanks again! Tony

Thanks for the likes! Mark: You're quite right. It's not really a problem from the point of view of constructing the model, and of course I printed out the plans and have cut the pieces so that they have the same width and length (unless, of course, the keelson really is supposed to have a different width from the other two pieces). The only (and very trivial) reason for the comment is that I like to put the plans into CAD and then (once I have the complete set of plans) visualise the build in 3D. However, because CAD requires accurate and consistent measurement to do this (its lines have no thickness) and because the lines on the plan have a thickness of 0.38mm (or 1/4 inches at full scale) I have to make a decision as to whether I trace the lines from the outside, centre or inner edges. The convention is to take the lines from the centre. But whatever position I take on the plans as they are, the different views of each piece do not match up. For example, if I take the drawings of the keelson, the outer edges of the cross-section are 8.03mm top to bottom (and 8.18mm across), while the outer edges of its side view are 8.34mm from top to bottom. As I can cut to a tolerance of 0.1mm (on a good day and when there's no wind blowing), I am then left with a choice as to the width and height of the timber. Naturally I do make the choice, but if the all of plan sheets in addition provided the full-scale dimensions of the timber I would then be confident of matching up all the pieces for CAD purposes. I really don't want to make a mountain out of a mole hill of this issue, as in fact I know I'll be able to build the cross-section from the plans as they are because the differences are so tiny. It really is just a very, very minor comment in relation to building it up in CAD. After all, in real life these ships were made from plans that were only on paper in the first place -- and even then the builders did not necessarily follow the plans given but built according to what they had to hand and in accordance with necessities as they arose. Furthermore, it's a bit ridiculous for a novice like myself to make any sort of comment like this when I have only just started out on the process of a full scratch build (apart from the tiny ship's boat I made for the Sherbourne). Tony

Oops! Just realised I had to start the build log to obtain the plans. So here it is. First steps at the cross-section. Cutting the lengths was really easy. The only problem was defining the dimensions as I much prefer to work from CAD and in metric -- and I don't know the original dimensions of the real timbers. So I diligently took the plans into TurboCAD and traced them. The difficulty, of course, is defining which part of the thickness of the lines to take as reference since the drawn lines are 0.38mm wide. This resulted in my having a variance of between 0.1 and 0.2mm between the different views of the keel, keelson and false keel. In the end I just decided on a particular width which seemed closest (e.g. 3.2mm for the false keel) since I reckoned the differences to be so small as not to be worth fussing about. All the same, it might be an idea for beginners like myself to have the original dimensions of the timbers shown on the plans so we can just draw them in CAD. As a result, I also thought I'd wait to see the plans in their entirety before settling on a particular set of measurements for the purposes of 3D modelling in CAD, so I can use the CAD drawings to think about the whole process. As to the rabbet, I toyed with the idea of cutting a scraper, but found that one of my milling pieces fit the profile exactly. So this did not prove a difficulty -- although I am fully aware that longer sections of keel would demand more complex curves and angles. So the following picture shows the progress thus far, and I request access to the plans if that's ok. I'm still working on the last stages of my Sherbourne (anchors and swivel guns) but want to see the Triton plans as soon as possible so that I can work out what I need and how I'll be doing it. Thanks Tony

Thanks Dirk, BE, Carl, Jörgen, Gunther and Mumin. The support and encouragement always stoke that nice warm glowy feeling when the efforts are appreciated. As usual, thanks to you all and so many others on this forum for the guidance I have had from your logs and notes. Tony

FINALISING THE BASE The A3 size blue-tinted acrylic sheet arrived, I cut it to 200mm width on my table saw using an acrylic-cutting blade, then as before cut out the shape with a coping saw. To hold the sheet I bought 300mm of 12mm acrylic rod and cut it into 51mm slices on the saw, then brought that down to 50mm with the disc sander. This ensured the cuts were smooth and the face at right angles. The ends of the cut rod were then polished using 1000 grit carborundum paper followed by a final polish with a leather strop and some honing compound. This meant that the acrylic welding solution could then be applied to the legs with a fine paintbrush – allowing the solution to be drawn into the joint by capillary action, leaving no sign of a join. The final result is as shown below. Now I’ll start work on the swivel guns as the graver’s rod has arrived. Tony

Thanks, Dirk and Dr. Per. I'd be glad to send CAD files, Dirk (if you're really serious), but the problem is that each of them has a mix of a jpeg background and CAD measurements and lines. The programme will only send the measurements and lines, but not the jpeg background. So the only thing to send that shows it all would be a pdf file. Let me know by PM if you do want such a thing. Tony

MAKING THE BASE Whilst waiting for some parts to make a graver (so that I can turn the swivel guns) I decided to think about the base. For a very long time I have wanted to make a Perspex base so that the ship could be seen as though in the sea, while at the same time being able to see the whole hull. What kept me back was how to make a plan of the breadth at the waterline since the kit plan sheets have no half breadth plans. However, after thinking about it I realised that the parts page in the manual might be usable in connection with the sheet plans since the sheet plans are exactly to scale. So I started by taking the measurements from the sheet plan of the side view. First were the keel and waterline. This allowed me to determine the angle of the waterline which is 1.2 degrees (but which knowledge doesn’t really figure in the ensuing work). At each bulkhead, I was then able to determine the distance from the waterline to the base of the bulkhead. With this knowledge, I could then take the page on the manual and re-size it so that the bulkhead outlines were at the same scale as on the sheet plan. This was done by marking the edges of the bulkheads and then measuring the distance from the base to the edge of the bulkhead. The ratio of this height to the height on the sheet plan gave the ratio for re-sizing. I could then take the re-sized bulkhead drawings and, after adding a 1.5mm thickness to each side for the planking, determine the full width of the hull at the waterline for each bulkhead. The measurements of the distances between each bulkhead and the width at the waterline allowed me to calculate a half-breadth plan and therefore an outline of the shape to be cut. I pasted the plan to cardboard, cut the outline, and placed the ship in it. This showed where the outline deviated from the model. Amazingly the only significant difference was at the stern. In order to compensate for the gap and draw a final outline, I glued matchsticks to the form with their ends touching the hull. I then photographed the outline and resized the photograph to the same scale as the plan. This allowed me to draw a new set of Bezier curves to make a final outline. As I have never cut Perspex before, I used an old sheet of the stuff I found on the road near my home and practised cutting and drilling it. It was simpler than I thought. All I used was a hand drill and a coping saw (other than the table saw to cut out a rectangle). I glued the plan to the sheet with a water-based glue so that after cutting out the panel I could simply wash off the plan. The current status (while I’m waiting for some tinted Perspex and the various fittings to make the final version) is as follows. Please note this is only the first attempt and the Perspex is dirty, cracked and scuffed – as you might expect from its having lain on the roadside! I'll post later once I have made a final version of the base, but thought you might be interested in progress so far. Tony

Sorry, Patrick, but I don't have any photos and can't remember how I did it. You can see from the first posts on my log that I had put the nuts in before the keel, but that I made a mess of the keel when drilling through. I seem to remember that I turned the hull upside down until the keel was level and held it in place with stuffing underneath as well as on the side whilst I drilled down using a set square as a guide. You can always drop it as an option and just go back to mounting it with the kit stand or another method. Some people just make it look like a shipyard and used beams held up against the side. There's no shame in retreating if you want to retain your sanity! Tony

Thanks, Jörgen. Your start and your craftmanship are already better than mine, and I'm sure many of us are looking forward to seeing your decisions along the way. Every Sherbourne I've seen has a lot different about it -- and it's always interesting. Tony

It is really difficult to drill the holes after you have placed the keel on the hull if you want accurate alignment since the nuts have to be placed correctly within the hull -- at least this is what I found when I was doing the same kind of thing. I don't know whether this applies to the mounts you bought, so in your case it may be easier. I had to figure out a jig that would allow me to drill through the keel with a precise vertical alignment. Of course it would have been much easier if I had drilled the holes in the keel before fixing it to the hull -- another one of the reasons why a lot of modellers wait before putting the stem, keel and sternpost on! Tony

Great to have another Sherbourne! I really like the approach you are taking and will follow with great interest. All these various builds (including Chuck's Cheerful) have shown an evolution in the way these cutters are approached. By the way, I was at first puzzled by your post #4 where you say "I also excrement with dowels". It took me just a little time to realise you meant 'experiment with dowels'. I am sure most other readers will understand immediately, but thought I'd point it out just in case others puzzle over it as well. Tony

Thanks for the clarification, Roger. My misreading! I'm not a sailor, except for my desk chair, so I am totally useless at saying anything of value here! Tony

OK, Roger, I see it now, but the section in question is to do with the boom/main sheet and not the stay sail -- which is what I originally raised the question about. Tony

Thanks, Roger. I hadn't seen that other idea. Sounds good. Whereabouts in Steel is that mentioned? It's too late for me to change my model now as I'm just finishing it off and want to move on, but I'd be really interested for future reference. Tony

There have been quite a few who have given up on even those kits labelled as simple. I'm not sure that there is an even simpler kit for them. It may be more that the hobby is just not for them. Tony

Isopropanol or isopropyl alcohol are excellent for dissolving PVA. You can buy it in large quantities from eBay very cheaply. I bought half a litre which is still going strong. As Brian suggested, it's worth keeping it soaked for a while. CA glue dissolves better in acetone, also available from eBay. Tony

Thanks for all the likes and comments! Spyglass: That's really interesting, so thanks for the insight. However, I'm not going to dismantle or change the rig now. I'll keep the tip for some future time. Gregor: As I said to Dirk, it's thanks to the continued stimulus provided by you and others that have helped me come this far. I'm now feeling more confident about doing a build as a result, and as I'm beginning to see how all the aspects interconnect and function together. I'm especially pleased that the belaying pin rack by the stem has worked so well in terms of the logic. I'm still tempted to be agitated by the roughness of the work though ... Tony

Just as an update to this thread, I eventually decided to make a horse of the type shown on the model of the Diligence at http://www.shipmodel.com/models/diligence-full-hull-nav- The result is: You can see this as part of my build log at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/335-hmc-sherbourne-by-tkay11-–-caldercraft-–-scale-164-1763-a-novice’s-caldercraft-sherbourne/?p=420946 Thanks again to everyone for their help. Tony

Thanks a lot, Wayne. Your post prompted me to look at your Cruizer brig, and that really is a magnificent undertaking. I'll be following that from now on. Tony

As usual, my dear mentor Dirk, I am at a loss when you say such kind things. All I can say is that I deeply appreciate them and thank you! It shows what a good teacher you and others have been for me on this forum! As to the hull, I already know your's is going to continue to turn out far better than anything I can do. Thanks again for your continued encouragement! Tony

GENERAL APPEARANCE TO DATE The following pictures show the general appearance as it is now. Once I am back from my next trip I’ll work on the ratlines, the swivel guns, the anchors and the flags. That should complete the model. Tony