garyshipwright

5 hours ago, SJSoane said:

Gary, thanks for the note regarding how to handle the tiller ropes. I would have been in some difficulty getting around a central carling a few months down the road. Isn't it great to share ideas on this website!

 

Mark

Mark being able to exchange  information and note's  with your self and other's is outstanding and I for one really like sharing what I know to any one who is open to it. Being able to give some thing back is my way of thanking others who have given this to me.  

Hi Johann. Thank you  for the how to post on making those tiny blocks  and your work still leaves me on the speechless side. I took a look at the reference you gave on the  Atlas du Génie Maritime and think am going to hang on to that one. Do you know off hand if they have published the Atlas in book form since then? Could be a good one to get. Only item I have that comes close to this is the Encyclopedie Methodique Marine, 3 vols set and 1 vol of plates. Thank you. Gary

Thanks Alan for the info. . As far as being a beginner at ship modelling have a deep feeling that we are both in the same boat and learn a lot from watching your build log  as many others do.  Do believe you are far from a beginner good sir and thank you for helping the student.  Gary

Hi Alan. I noticed that you have three carlings per side from the fore hatch to the  second beam aft of the stem and was wondering if this was done  in Elephant's time. From what I have read in the contracts I have it would of been something like what Mark shows on his. The contracts I have says that their was only two per side from the fore hatch to the stem. They did have one in the middle from the fore hatch to the back of the fore mast partner with the carling stopping at the aft beam of the mast partner.  Believe it was called the furnace/stove carling and was 12 inches wide but don't hold me to the 12 inches. This one was put up underneith those beams and believe it was set in to the beams by 2 inches. They also installed short carling on top of that  long carling between the beams  and filled the space above that carling.  If elephant was different would love to know how they did it during her time frame. You can see that carling in dashed line running below the beams in the 6th photo in the Hector plan above. You probably already know this so forgive me if you do. Thank you sir. Gary

Hi Guys do you mind if I crash the party. What you have put on the log just goes to show us that the decks were all done just a bit different and like your's self's it really hard to figure them out. On Alfred it shows that she has one center deck beam with two arms per side but the two most forward beams have the same as what you show for your deck's. Now coming up with hanging and lodging kness, now that is were the real fun starts.  Am using Alfred deck plan to lay out the beams but using Hector to fill in the knee's and the way the aft part was laid out. Now on the carling and ledges am using the contract's to figure out how they were laid out. Hoping that maybe am on the right track to how they may of been done. Hay Mark, Alan  your plan's of the upper gun deck is out standing but have a question and you may of already address it. Mark the carling you have forward of you mizzen mast may get in the way of the fitting's for the rudder ropes which go up to the ships wheel. When I work Alfred's out I used a x set of carlings with sheaves to guide the ropes up. Of course with out looking back am not sure if this was done the same way. Seems French way of doing this was one piece attach to the beam with two sheaves at different angles I believe.  Mark when you said Conway what book are you talking about? You know me I just love books. Thanks guy for letting me in on the party😊Gary

Welcome aboard good sir and your welcome with open arms. 

John according to Peter Goodwin the water way and the margin plank was two different pieces of wood. . The waterway was a strake of specially fashioned plank worked fore and aft along each side of the ship across the ends of the deck beams. The function of the water way was to form a watertight seal between the side of the ship and the deck. If water was able to enter at this vulnerable area of the ships structure  both the ends of the beams and the ships timbers to which they were joined would become rotten. It was in the shape of a L as a easy way of looking at it shape.  The margin plank ran parallel to the ships side and fayed to the waterway. The function of this was to pre vent the normal straight deck planking from being tapered to a fine angle where it met the curvature of the ship's side at the fore and after ends. The margin plank was thus fashioned to receive the butts of those planks.  I added a couple of photo's showing how I did this on my Confederacy and a photo showing the Alfred. John if you put the waterway plank at the bottom  underneath the bulwark  planking and then butt the margin plank up next to the water way  that would be my way of doing it. I am not sure but am thinking that the bulwark planking and the spirketting are the same thing. Hope this helps sir. 

John could you share a photo or two of you deck? It would be a big help to us to be able to help you? Gary

Hi john this may help you. The drawing came from Model Ship Wright and the author was David White.

Hum wait till you ask your daughter were your phone is and she tells you your talking on it. I was a bit red face over that one. Well good sir am going to hold you to that part.😊 Gary

Looking good Mark and will follow along. Always nice to watch a  real shipbuilder work his craft. Gary

Thank you Hubac's and I do enjoy his videos. I think a beginner would be helped by watching his rebuilding the Tally-Ho project and even I have got something out of it from his rebuilding the frames to installing the beams. Thank you again.

Thanks Mark it is Astonishing what they did with just a adze and a two man saw. . They were real craftmens of their time. A really good you tube video on how they did it is of Leo rebuilding the Tally ho and have enjoy watching him from the very start. Not every thing they do is just like 1760 but does give you that feeling and of course they use electrical. Now if only we can get Jim to make us one of those shipbuilding band saws that they use for building our little ships. Of course don't pay any attention to the fork lift.  😊 I think the bird is the real star and after you  watch some of it am sure you would agree. 😍

I have to second that druxey. Mark the  stove was a real joy  to build and most of the info came from Arthur Bugler book, HMS Victory, Building Restoration and Repair. It gives you the full size dimensions and with out it would have been a pain in the butt.  Gary

Ok guys, been looking for this term in all of my books for what it means and have come up short.  It such a great term that they havn't even put it  on Wikipedia but probabley show up in the future. 😲😆😜.  O forgot good job Mark just love your updates.

Hi Vaddoc.  Nice job so far and thank you for feeling me in on your build. As far as reusing the same holes this is what I do, well at least I try. I usually us pin's to hold things together and after finally finishing the parts install treenail's/trunnels in the holes. Every once in a while I end up with a hole or two out of place but use saw dust that is the same color to fill those holes. Thanks again for sitting me straight.  No worry's sir am behind you 100 percent.   Helping each other is what its all about. Gary 

Hi Vaddoc. Just a question for you sir. Are you planning on putting filler blocks in between the frame/bulkheads. Once sanded down should give  you a even better full surface to plank over. Most use balsa wood and can be picked up at hobby store's depending on where you live. Gary

Hi Jim.  I have a couple, but they are made of metal and was interested in the one you got. Am also thinking about modifing one of them in to something more easily gotten in to smaller places. Thank you. Gary  

Hi Kurt. Guess what, it showed up and for some reason I knew if I asked about it,  it would show up.  it did on the 24 aug. God bless Bob and wish him the best. 

On 5/29/2020 at 2:08 PM, Bluto 1790 said:

Thanks for your further comment, Michael.

 

Although the orlop deck beams have the mortices for the carlings cut, the carlings and ledges won't be cut until the hold is completed.  A fairly substantial part of the hold are the riders.  Very little - almost nothing - of the riders is shown in the drawings, and in fact, there is nothing of them in the 50 Gun Ship book.

Only the section drawing that I posted at the beginning of this thread shows their approximate shape, and one other drawing of the orlop deck gives a few clues as to their positions.  Here's that drawing, in which I've indicated in red what appears to be five riders, and only the three aftmost of these will occur in the section I'm building.  I've arrowed these three riders  >

 

 

I started using card trying to get the profiles and after a few pieces of card got the first one fairly close -- then I bought this >

That made it much easier and quicker to get the required profile which was transferred to card, tweaked a little then transferred onto the wood for cutting out on the bandsaw  >

The aftmost of the floor riders >

 . . . and with the foremost of the three >

The first test 'ride' of the three floor riders >

The orlop drawing above appears to show that middle rider just a little ahead of the main mast, and as such, looks like it would pass through the shot locker, so I cheated a little with that one and made it in 2 pieces.  Here it's shown with the first futtock riders >

Here, with the aft rider and both with their first futtock riders >

All three with their futtock riders get a test 'ride' before permanent fitting <

Well, need to get the orlop beams on so time to make these riders a permanent part of the ship.  Aft rider glued and nailed on (deck beam just clamped on in order to get the rider in the correct position) >

Riders and beams get to be together in the same hull (beams still just dry fitted here as the support pillars are still to be made)  >

 

Will have to wait until the inside hull planking is done on orlop deck before I can make the (upper) breadth rider sections.

Hi Jim. Can you give me some info on the profile tool that you show in the second photo might just have to get one. Thank you. Gary

Thanks Kurt. St. Louis would be great and the others that you mention to. Gary

Hi Kurt. Is there a possibility that the conference will be held on the east cost like Virginia , Florida,maybe some place like where the Constitution is in the future. Last one I went to was in Chicago and really had a good time. Thanks. Gary

Hi Christian. Am not sure this will work but will give it a try.   As far as any figures in a smaller scale am not sure but will check. It does seem that they have quite a few figure's to chose from but not sure on the scale. Gary

Hi Ryland and thank you.  I like the shapeways figures to and seems they are really more in scale. I have looked for some in uniforms of the Royal Navy of Montagu time frame but so far have struck out. Thank you again. Gary

Thanks Mark. They do give it a sense of perspective don't they. Here is her first crew from earlier photo's and unsure of where they went. Maybe they was pressed on to another ship.🥺🙂  Gary