flying_dutchman2

Jan, 

It is wood. Redo as many times as you want. 

Marcus 

Drastic re-do. 

I have started removing the planking in between frame 5 and 10 on both sides and the side where the overall planking leans too much outward between frames 5,10,15, and 20. I may just go further to frame 25, 30 and 35.

Have to do this slowly as I don't want to rip it too fast as I may break something I don't want to. 

I will probably cut the frames as well and install new ones. It would then be easier to plank. 

I looked at all the pictures I have from Fluits and on some have there planking stop just above the stem and some show the planking a little further out of the end of the rudder. 

Marcus 

4 hours ago, Ab Hoving said:

There is nothing in it that has any relationship with real Dutch ships.

 

And I am withholding myself. 🙂

Ab, 

Would love to hear the rest of your opinions. 😁

Marcus 

Patrick,

Thanks for the compliment. 

Marcus 

16 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

Am I correct that the oval piece surrounding the rudder port, yellow in the 3D rendering is actually a structural member tying the upper and lower hull sections together?

 

Roger

Roger, 

Seems to me but Ab would be a better judge of that as he has built several Fluits in his lifetime. 

Marcus 

10 hours ago, amateur said:

When you are goung to rip the planking off between frames 5-10, is there any way to ensure that although offf-center, the stern will be vertical? 

Jan, 

Possibly, but then I need to start at frame 30 and remove a lot more. 

The main reason why it is off is that the planking starting from frame 30 going to frame 5 is bent/bowed towards the outside. Don't really know how this happened because before the planking was installed all the frames were nice and even. 

Marcus 

Ab, 

I am never ashamed of redoing a model. With building the Utrecht, I got it right after the third try. I was continually having problems with the stern. Seems that is where I always have a problem with. Same with the Boyer.

I also appreciate your constructive criticism and you show this with pictures.

I think it is safe to say that you are the only modeler on MSW that has built several Fluits and I am in the process of building one. So I rely on you, Jan and a few other Dutch people to give me advice. 

Marcus 

Ab, 

Yes, there is a symmetry problem Thanks a lot for the 3D designs. The second picture is a lot of help. 

I will either pull the planking further out or rip everything out between bulkhead 5 and 10 and redo the horizontal planking. 

I will probably take it all out between bulkhead 5 and 10 and start over, (sorry, thinking out loud). 

Jan, 

You are correct in your observation of the right side to be closer to the hartline. I can't change that anymore. 

Marcus 

Took drastic measures and removed the planking between bulkhead 5 and 10. 

Redid the planking so they would extend way over the rudder. 

Combination of wood glue and sawdust was used to fill in the gaps. Most of this will be sanded away. 

Both sides are done and drying overnight. 

I have been having a lot of trouble with the stern. When you look at the Fluit from the top and side there is nothing wrong. But when you look from where the tiller goes into the ship, there is a whole lot of wrong. 

The ship overall has all the curves the way the plans show me and it all looks pleasing to the eye. Nothing is abrupt. The bottom 3 wales are placed correctly and the upper 2 need to be higher in the stern area than they are now. This will be done with the second layer of planking. 

BUT (here it comes) 

When I planked the bulkheads towards the stern, it didn't end up in a point above the rudder - see below-, that is the area that makes the boat look way off. 

 Top view. Tiller rests on the rudder post and you can see I am way off, by 12mm.

Have to figure out how I can move it all towards the middle. 

I don't want to trash the model and start all over again or remove the planking from bulkheads 30 to 5.

One area where the tiller goes into the ship there is a 90 degree curve opening. It is bigger than the plans and what the pictures of Fluits in books show. 

All in all the further I get into this build the more I think that I should have build the 'cat' first as it looks somewhat like a fluit. Setting that thought aside....... I will continue with this build. 

Marcus 

Measured where the waterline is to be and from there on, go up to measure where the other decks will be.

The colored push pins depict where the different decks will be located. 

Started creating beams for the lower deck (which will not be visible) and before it goes in I need to measure where the masts will be. 

Marcus 

Mark and Ab, thank you both for your suggestions and I plan to install deck beams as I need the curve of the deck. 

I plan to install all decks. There are a few decks you won't see but I am doing it for practice. 

Marcus 

Been sanding the Fluit on the in and outside of the hull. 

One of my delema is going to be on how to figure out where the different decks are going to be. I have made many templates to guess where they would be. 

I've never built a "more than one deck" ship before. So I had a thought. I could cut off the sides of the hull to where the lower deck starts and then put the lower deck in and built up the bulkheads and the planking to the next deck and so on. 

Any suggestions? 

Marcus 

On 12/1/2019 at 9:27 PM, Blue Pilot said:

This is a very interesting ship it will be a great model when you finish her.

That it will be and it is also one of the reasons I am building it. Like I mentioned before, it is the most challenging ship I have ever built 

Marcus 

Been sanding the 1st layer of planking and adding filler as I sand areas that need it. 

Most of my sanding is done in an unheated garage and when it is dry outside I bring the belt sander and sandpaper outside and do it on the back patio. Tomorrow till Thursday is going to be dry so I can get a lot done. 

Marcus 

Popeye the sailor, 

Thanks for the link. Cool story and I have seen/been to the opera of 'Die Fliegende Hollander' from Richard Wagner. 

Marcus 

Ab, 

I plan to sand the hull like you mentioned. Get rid of all the irregularities. The 1st layer is 2mm thick so I can sand a lot. With the Boyer I had many irregularities and sanded the heck out of it, added filler, sanded it smooth and added a 2nd layer.

I took a piece of paper and glued several lengths together and layed it lengthwise on the hull. Drew a wale on it and put the ship away. Come back later on. 

I didn't think of it about the balsa. Come to think of it one is limited where the dowels go. Many people both in my local club and here on this site use balsa as filler. When I built the Boyer it was recommended that I use balsa. In the past I used whatever wood I had. My Utrecht is rather heavy because of the filler wood. 

My next ship (Heemskerck) will be plank on frame, no balsa or plywood. The ship will be heavy. 

Yes, I have heard of Underhill's books. 

Marcus 

5 hours ago, G.L. said:

May I draw your attention to an in my opinion excellent course which is going on this forum on planking a (half) hull? It shows an easy way to determine the shape and the curve of hull planks. => Half Hull Planking Project

Toni is a member of my local club and in several meetings she has shown how planking a half hull is done. 

Marcus 

Jan, Ab and wefalck, thank you for that detailed explanation. 

The building of a punter is interesting especially where they use a fire and water to bend the wood. 

Marcus 

Ab, 

Thank you for the constructive criticism.

In your opinion do I need to remove the 1st layer of planking and start all over again? 

If not, I am planking the 2nd layer per your instruction. 

I did force the planks at the bow area.

I was trying to copy the planking of the models in the Merchant book. I usually don't do this. While planking my Utrecht and Boyer, no plank was forced. 

You are correct about the three bottom installed wales. There is a slight curve from the stern to about the middle of the ship, then they are straight, going slightly up and ending in abrupt corners of the bow. I measured several times to where they were supposed to be and drew the lines on the bulkheads. I will definitely change this in the second planking and get a better curve towards the middle of the ship. 

One can see from the area near the keel that the planks are not one piece. That is not possible. 

Marcus 

Another question. 

Who in the Netherlands invented to build a ship "shell first"?

Year?

Once this method was invented, were all Dutch ships built "shell first" ?

Marcus 

I magna, 

Thank you for the explanation. 

Marcus 

18 hours ago, Jack12477 said:

It is not the plane but the pilot who flew it, Robert Goebel, a Double Ace.  See the very first post for the history .

"Goebel" is a German name not Dutch. Also read about him on the Net and nowhere does it say he is Dutch, or am I missing something? 

Marcus 

On 11/7/2019 at 12:30 AM, cog said:

Maybe you should take a look at the periods in which both shapes were used and might find an explanation in that.

Friday I spent almost all day researching the above. Out of numerous articles that I have read (so far), not one discusses this. But I did find other interesting info about Fluits. How they are related to hekboten, katten en boyers. 

Marcus 

Why is the P-51 called "Flying Dutchman"? Do not see anything related to The Netherlands. 

Marcus 

After thoroughly studying the lines plan and making templates in every combination, taking the templates and lining them up where they are supposed to be, I've come to the conclusion that everything checks out.

Just to make sure I checked every book,  article and research paper that have pictures of Fluits and came to the conclusion that the models in the Merchant book are very different than some of the articles 'and' the Abel Tasman book.

The above picture shows that the hips are smaller than the Merchant book, but looks like my model. 

Abel Tasman book 

My model is similar to the Abel Tasman model. The hips on both models are smaller than the Merchant book models.

What did I learn from this?

Bofore freaking out. 😱. 😭, check out all your sources. Ships evolved throughout the years. I don't have enough information on the topic, but I know the fluit changed in hip size and length over the years.

There was a type of Fluit for every country and every type of industry the Dutch traded with. I wrote something about that in the 1st or 2nd post.

Next, I need to hollow more out of the inside of the hull so the decks fit.

Sand the outside smooth.

Marcus