Dr PR

I will need a couple dozen rope loops of different sizes to hang on the pin rails after all the lines have been belayed. I read through the topics posted in the Masting Rigging and Sails section of the Forum, and came up with a simple way to make these loops. There were several different methods for making rope loops, but most involved looping some rope around pins, pulling out part of the first loop, and hooking it over another pin with a twist. I used a scrap piece of wood that had been used to test different stains. Straight pins were hammered into holes in a diamond pattern, and then the tops of the pins were cut off. The spacing was designed to make loops that would just touch the deck when hanging from belaying pins. The single pin "around the corner" from the loop pins is for the rope "eye" for the belaying pin to fit over. It is removed when the loop is taken off the fixture. You can see the basic arrangement on the right, and a loop in progress on the left. After the rope loop was completed it was soaked with white glue diluted 1:1 with water. The fixture has five sets of pins to allow "mass production" of the rope loops. The loose end from the first loop that makes the eye for the belaying pin will be trimmed off after the glue sets. The other end is pulled taut by the clamps while the glue sets. Then it is trimmed to about the bottom end of the loop. Here are five loops made with 0.025 inch (0.63 mm) rope (left). On the right they are hanging on pins in a pin rail. These suck! The eye that fits over the belaying pin doesn't wrap under the bundle of rope as it should, and it comes off at an odd angle, and not right at the top of the loops. This causes the loops to hang at an odd angle, and too high. When I tried to pull the loops down to a more natural position the glue failed and they unraveled into a rats nest of lines! It was a waste of good rope! Punt! I am going to have to come up with a better way to make rope loops. If anyone has suggestions I am "all ears." Note: In past builds I have rigged the lines and then belayed them on the belaying pins, with sufficient extra line to loop them and tie them off as it is actually done on real ships. Those loops looked really good.

George, If you want to make the pictures smaller just double click on them after they have been placed. You can change the dimensions - be sure to check the box to keep the same X/Y proportions. If you want to place two pictures side by side, make the first one left justified and leave the second one with no justification. If you make a picture left justified you can place text to the right of it. If you use no justification text will start below the picture.

Thanks John! One more done. The main sail is the most complex sail. In addition to rigging to the gaff and mast hoops, it also has the main boom rigging to deal with. The sail is "loose footed," and is not laced to the boom. The tack is tied to a ring bolt on the top of the boom jaws. The clew has the sheet rope attached to the cringle. The sheet runs through a sheave at the end of the boom and then forward to where it is stropped to a single block. A double block is tied to a ring bolt on the bottom of the boom jaws. These blocks form a luff tackle for the sheet, with the fall tied to a cleat on the port side of the boom. The boom is supported at the forward end by the boom rest on the mast. The aft end is held in place by the boom sheet tackles. Most drawings show the lower double blocks hooked to eye bolts in the deck. I rigged them to eye bolts on the bulwarks, with the falls tied to cleats (not fully rigged in these photos). If the blocks were hooked to eye bolts on deck the tackle would fall on the tiller when the boom was swung outboard. And if the crew ever did haul cannons back to the stern chase ports the boom tackle would interfere with the cannons. So I rigged the tackles high. There are eye bolts on the deck where the tackle also could be rigged. The gaff is rigged pretty much like the fore gaff. The block sticking up above the aft end of the gaff is for the sheet of the spar gaff topsail. A smaller block is also hanging from the end of the gaff - it is for the flag halliard. I designed the masts, spars and sails in 2D CAD drawings and used the measurements to lay out the sails and calculate the lengths of the rigging ropes. But the proof is in the pudding they say. I was pleased to see that things ended up in their intended places after everything was rigged. In particular, the gaff jaws are riding on the metal sheet on the mast, while the boom jaws are resting on the boom support. And the gaff throat halliard tackle hangs nicely and is not two-blocked. Sometimes the best laid plans do work! There are a number of lines still to be rigged. Port and starboard topping lifts will attach to the end of the boom, then run through single blocks on pendants hanging from the crosstrees, and down to single blocks that are part of a running tackle. The standing parts of the running tackles fasten to eye bolts on deck just aft of the pin rails. The falls belay to pins in the pin rails. Like the fore sail, the vangs have not yet been rigged, nor has the flag halliard. I rigged the gaff sails before the higher sails so the running rigging from the other sails would not be in the way of tying the sails to the mast hoops. But this created another problem. The sails block access to the pin rails from the opposite sides of the ship, and this makes it harder to tie ropes to the pins. It still can be done, for I have belayed the throat and peak halliards of both gaffs to their respective belaying pins. But it wasn't a simple exercise. There are 26 more ropes to be tied to these pin rails, and it will be a test of my patience!

Peter, Access to belaying points is a problem! I started by installing the gaff sails (foresail and main sail) because the rigging for all of the higher sails would be in the way of attaching the luffs of the gaff sails to the mast hoops. The standing rigging lines created enough obstacles as it is. However, now that these large sails are in place they block access to the pin rails on the bulwarks! I have a method of looping the lines under the rails and around the base of the pins working from the outboard side of the bulwarks but it is tedious. It would be a lot easier if I had clear access from the opposite side of the ship from the pin rail.

Ian, Nice work. This may be your first sailing ship build and the most complicated thing you have modeled, but your prior modelling experience shows. You are doing a very good job - especially for your first hull planking!

Having done a bit of 3D modelling myself (USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 and modeling parts for other builds) and scratch making things by hand in wood and metal, I say both techniques are equally good for ship modelling. I put in 14 years of research on the CLG CAD model, and I am starting on my seventh year researching my 1:48 topsail schooner model. However, I have doubts about the suitability of the resins used for 3D printing. I have 3D printed some tiny but very detailed parts for my future 1:96 scale model of the CLG - much better detail than I could do by hand in any material. But how long will these resin parts last? 3D printing is relatively new, especially for the home printers. Will the resin deteriorate with time? Only time will tell. I am reminded of the problems that came up when pot metal parts came into fashion more than a century ago. Some of those metal parts corroded and are just dust today. And a very early (1940s) plastic body for a kitchen mixer began to crumble in only a few years. So if your model is just a throw-away, or something that your heirs will have to dispose of, the 3D printed parts are OK. But I have doubts about anything you want to last beyond your lifetime.

Vaddoc, I appreciate the work you are doing to get the angles leading into the rabbet just right. However, I found on my MSI hull that the only really important part was the shape (curve) of the rabbet. The planks curved based on the bulkheads and fit into the rabbet without much trouble. At the bow I just filled the spaces between the bulkheads and faired the filler with the bulkheads. And the way I got the rabbet precisely where I wanted it, and to the right thickness, was to glue keel extension pieces to the sides of the keel, to the top edges of these extension pieces formed the rabbet. I did a little cutting to deepen the rabbet a bit at the bow and on the stern deadwood, but I didn't have to be too careful because it is all hidden under the planking.

Always glad to see another schooner model coming along. Your design process for making the parts with the laser is an interesting twist to the time tested scroll saw and wood method. It seems you are finding ways to work around the "traditional" problems, but discovering new problems that are inherent to the new method and materials. I assume you are using MDF instead of plywood because it cuts better with the laser? **** One way you can solve the problem of forming the bulwark pieces without breaking the bulkhead extensions would be to cut a new set of pieces that had the outer curves and spacing of the frames and that fit transverse onto the upper deck between the bulkhead extensions. These would be long rectangular pieces with the curves of the bulkheads on the ends. Fasten them to the corresponding upper bulkheads. Because they would be solid material between the bulwark curves they would not break under the forces of forming the bulwarks. Then they and the upper frame parts could be removed. Here is a sketch of the idea. The red piece is the "bulkhead support" shaped to fit across the bulkhead extensions.

Duco Cement is fairly fast drying - hold pieces together for 20-30 seconds. It is a nitrocellulose solution in acetone, and the acetone evaporates quickly. It also has a strong smell and is flammable. I use Sig Bond aliphatic resin for most work and clamp the pieces together. It is slow hardening - 40 minutes to hold and over night for full cure. If you need to bond to metal or glass use epoxy!

It helps to rough the surface of brass with fine sandpaper or steel wool before painting or blackening. This gives the metal some "tooth" for the paint to grip. But use very fine abrasives so you don't gouge deep scratches in the metal. Use 400 to 600 grit sandpaper or #0000 steel wool. Also, be sure the brass is very clean! Wash it with acetone or rubbing alcohol to remove grease and fingerprints. I sometimes wash with dish detergent and rinse thoroughly before washing with acetone or alcohol - just to be sure. You can also etch the surface with acetic acid (vinegar) or Sparex (sodium bisulfate). Vinegar does a minimal job, and is slow. Warm Sparex does a better job. If you are trying to blacken a large surface etching first will produce a more even coating.

Greg, Your model is looking very niceI I nibbed my decking just as you are doing, making the end of the plank half the plank width and tapering back to where the outer edge of the plank intersects the nibbing plank/margin board. I have noticed some variations on nibbing methods. It looks like you are cutting the end of the plank perpendicular to the sides of the planks. Some books show the plank end cut perpendicular to the side/axis of the nibbing strake/margin board. * There really isn't much difference, and you have to look hard to tell how it was actually done. Another variation is the width of the end of the plank. Some models seem to have the end cut only 1/3 the plank width. I suppose somewhere there are "standards" for various navies and countries, but I don't have them. I really didn't know if there was a "right" way for nibbing decks in the 1800s. But on the three modern (mid-1900s) US Navy ships I served on the deck plank ends were cut perpendicular to the plank edges and half the plank width. So that's the way I planked my schooner model, and how I will plank the minesweeper. * Edit. Actually it looks like the front end of the plank is perpendicular to the angled edge of the plank where it is cut into the nibbing strake/margin board.

I have a small scissors that I got at a local sewing supply shop. They cut all the sizes or rope/thread that I use, and do cut all the way to the tip. But they are typical scissors with blade that slide past each other, and cannot be used to cut line ends very close to knots and such. I bought some cheap side cutters at Harbor Freight that cut very close to blocks and such, and cut to within 0.01 inch (0.254 mm) of the tip. However, you have to be careful selecting them. There were about two dozen in the store, and only two had jaws that closed together parallel so no light came through a crack. For extremely close cutting to clip off the ends of line at knots and such I have good set of cuticle cutters. They are very sharp and cut all the way to the tip. The jaws are made at an angle to the handles, reducing interference from the handles (and hands holding them). None of these tools were very expensive but they do the job.

The foresail is rigged (mostly) on the mast! I chose to start with this sail because it is low on the mast, and the hoops will be inside a cluster of rigging when the other sails on the mast have been rigged. There were quite a few "obstacles" in the standing rigging as it is. I lifted the group of hoops to about the middle of the mast and used a clamp to hold them there. One by one they were raised or lowered to the position of the lines tied to the sail and held there with additional clamps until they were tied to the sail. Near the mast top the standing rigging lines crowded the work a bit. Lower on the mast I had a bit more room to work. The two lines from the sail were wrapped around the mast hoop, one over the top and the other under the hoop. They were brought back aft and held with clamps. I put a small drop of fast-drying Duco Cement on the ropes inside the hoop to hold them in place. This cement dries shiny, but it won't be visible inside the hoop. On the outside the lines were soaked with while glue diluted 1:1 with water. After the glue dried the loose ends of the lines were trimmed close to the hoops. The lines are not knotted around the hoops, but are held in place only by the glue. The hoops will be under no strain on the model so I hope the glue will be all that is needed! Here is a picture of the sail fastened to the mast hoops. It hangs pretty good from the gaff and along the mast. However, there is a bit of crowding under the gaff jaws and a noticeable wrinkle in the sail. I can live with that. The gaff peak halliard and throat halliard are rigged and tied to pins on the port and starboard bulwark pin rails respectively. The sail's tack is rigged to a luff tackle attached to a ring bolt in the deck just aft of the mast. The running end is belayed to a pin on the starboard side of the fife rail around the base of the mast. I have not rigged the sail's sheet yet. The line and tackle are attached to the sail but are just held down with a clamp in the photo. I want to be able to pull the sail aside while I am rigging the lines for the sails on the main mast. The sail's brail has not been rigged to the sheet cringle yet - I forgot it in the rush to get this sail hung! I may regret that when I get around to rigging it. The vangs are still to be rigged after the main mast rigging is finished. Here is a photo of the vessel as it is now. One sail down, eight more to go! Note: The white paper "flag" on the lines from the jib boom is to warn me to not get tangled up in them. The dark brown lines are hard to see against a cluttered background. Immediately after rigging the jib boom a button on my shirt sleeve caught one of the lines and jerked the boom pretty hard. One of the jib boom stays broke and I had to rig it all over again! Just another one of those lessons learned the hard way!

I have a bit of progress to report. Work on the sails was tedious and the rigging promised to be even worse, so I decided to take a break from the schooner build for a while. However, I have been doing some small fiddly bits ever now and then so it hasn't come to a complete halt. In the mean time I have started my model of the USS Cape MSI-2. While I am waiting for a wood delivery to continue the Cape I have started work again on the schooner sails. This reminds me of the tedium of the earlier build. Again, I am spending too much time on the floor searching for little pieces that suddenly disappeared! This is the fore (gaff) sail with all the trimmings. I have decided it will be the first sail to be rigged on the model. It is laced to the fore gaff along the top. I have added lines on the forward (luff) side to attach to the mast hoops. These are looped around the sail and bolt rope and glued in place. The two ends will be wrapped around the wooden hoops and glued together on the inside of the hoop. There are 12 ties for hoops, and there will be a 13th spare hoop at the bottom. Blocks for the sheet and tack tackles are attached to the cringles at the lower sail corners. The tack luff tackle attaches to a ring bolt at the base of the mast and the fall belays to a pin on the fife rail at the base of the mast. The sheet gun tackle attaches to a ring bolt on deck near the base of the main mast and the fall belays to a nearby cleat. Blocks for the peak halliard and throat halliard are attached to the gaff. These halliards belay on the pin rails outboard of the masts on the bulwarks. Pendants for the gaff vangs are hanging from the end of the gaff. The vangs attach to ring bolts just forward of the after pin rails on the bulwarks, run through the blocks on the vang pendants, and the falls belay to a pin on the after pin rails. Under the jaws are blocks for the brail. The brail attaches to the sheet cringle, runs through the block under the jaws, and then belays at the fife rail at the base of the mast. The next step will be to rig the sail on the mast.

John, Replacing the broken piece won't be much of a problem. You don't have rigging in place yet. However, the suggestions to splice the break are not too far fetched. All of the rigging exerts a downward force, and that will hold the pieces together. And the different stays and lines balance each other if you get them rigged right, so the mast shouldn't try to bend. When installing the rigging do not pull the lines tighter than the minimum force necessary to get them to stand straight without sagging. You really shouldn't be putting much strain on the masts and spars.

They are current photos. If you look closely you can see dust that has accumulated with time - it doesn't have a case. I occasionally clean it, but it has been several months since the last cleaning.

bcd, Welcome to the real world! I bought a bunch of deadeyes from a well known model company and they were mostly crap! Do these guys have trained monkeys making parts for them? Look at the photo - the holes are almost randomly spaced! Only about half of the parts were useable - the rest were junk! I won't be buying anything from A**** again!!!!!!!!!

Gregory, Thanks for the obvious question! I don't know about the forward or backwards spin, but I always went up the (inclined) ladders facing them, and down with my back to the steps. External (outside, weather deck) ladders usually had hand rails that continued up to the tops of life rails or life lines around the decks. Internal ladders had nothing like this. At the top there were no handholds. When you climbed them you just stepped out onto the deck, just like climbing stairs in a building. However, in heavy seas when the ship was pitching heavily over large swells, navigating internal ladders could be challenging. I can remember more than once when I was climbing a ladder in typhoons when the ship dropped out from under me, leaving me floating weightless in the air. But not for long before the deck came up to slam me! With experience you lose your lubber's legs and learn to get along no matter how the ship is pitching and rolling.

This Freya build probably should be considered ancient history because I built the kit in the mid 1970s. But I recently saw a kit on eBay for $70.00, so it might be of interest to someone. Also, I think the kit has been released again as the Agilis "clipper:" https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23067-agilis-by-jct-finished-steingraeber-160-scale-slave-ship/#elControls_682192_menu I am also posting it because there are some peculiar features to this model and I am hoping some of our members who are familiar with German and Danish ship construction might comment on it. Here is a photo of the kit box. "Brigg Freya um 1840. Schiffsmodellbaukasten in Holtz." A ship model kit in wood, and instructions mostly in German. Well, I majored in chemistry as a freshman and I was required to take two years of German because a lot of the chemical literature was in German. So a few (and I do mean a few) instructions in German weren't too daunting - at least in the 1970s. There is no kit manufacturer's name on the box or the instructions, but it does say "made in west Germany" on the plans. Newer modelers might compare the sparse instructions and lack of pre-cut parts to more modern kits. The other side of the plans sheet has instructions in four languages (German, English, French and Italian). There is a list of parts and 22 building steps. For example, step 20 says "The yards must be rigged and attached to the mast, following the drawing." There are a few helpful hints in the drawing. The parts for the hull had to be cut from a sheet of plywood that had lines printed on it. All the dowels for the masts and spars had to tapered by hand. Here is the finished model. I do not know if it actually represents any real vessel, but I had fun building it. This was my second kit build, and I scratch built many of the pieces because I thought the kit parts were too crude. When I look at it I am reminded of zu Mondfeld's comment (Historic Ship Models, page 218) about top heavy models that have overly tall masts. I have noticed that on many ships the masts are about as tall as the hull is long, or less. But in this model the masts are nearly 1 1/2 times as tall as the length of the hull. Are the masts too tall? Perhaps our Forum members who are familiar with northern European ships of the 19th century can provide some information about this. Another peculiarity is the angle (steeve) of the bowsprit - there is none. It is horizontal. The plans show it this way and that is how I built it. Were any real ships built this way? The tall masts and horizontal bowsprit suggest to me that this vessel never went to sea where it would encounter high winds and large waves. Perhaps it worked on rivers and other inland waters? Here are some more photos of the decks and masts. In the upper right hand photo you can see a place where a gap opened in the hull planking. This was probably caused by the wood swelling and shrinking as moisture changed in the atmosphere. This also happened on my first plank-on-bulkhead kit model. For all subsequent builds I have coated the inside of the hull planking with thin clear epoxy paint or epoxy potting compound. The epoxy penetrates the cracks between planks and between planks and bulkheads and makes the hull rock hard. I have a plank-on-bulkhead hull over 40 years old that was covered with epoxy inside, and it still does not have cracks between the planks! This was the first time I had planked a deck with individual pieces, and not a pre-printed single sheet. I had recently served on three ships in the US Navy that had wooden decks. On one the decking was replaced while I was aboard, and on another (USS Cape MSI-2) the plank seams were recaulked. I had saved some of the caulking compound that was used on the Cape just for the purpose of caulking ship model decking, and I used it for this model. So this is the real stuff you see here! Kids, do not try this at home! It was really messy and the seams are probably too wide!! The kit did not come with a ship's boat, and I thought it should have one. It did have davits at the stern for a boat, and I used the spacing between them to make a boat about to scale. Remember, this is long before the Internet and the information available there, and there were no bookstores where I was living with books about ships and ship modelling. The local hobby shops were either pushing flying model airplanes or model railroading. So I was winging it here! This is a 2.1 inch (53 mm) plank on frame model boat. At 1:100 this is a scale 17 foot (5 meter) long boat. According to May's Boats of Men of War it should have more thwarts and oars, but I didn't have access to such publications back then. I cut pieces for crude frames and glued them together. These were glued to a carved keel piece. And then the hull was planked with HO scale model railroad ties (the things that support the rails). I didn't know if this method would work, but I gave it a try anyway and the results were adequate for this model. Nothing ventured, nothing gained! I replaced a few of the parts in the model with scratch built pieces that were more detailed. I did have Chapelle's American Sailing Ships (my entire nautical library at that time) and used the illustrations in it as guides. The last major modification to the kit was the transom. The kit plans showed nothing there but the plywood piece. I thought the ship should have a name, and Freya seemed appropriate. Freya was the old Norse word for noble lady, and was the goddess of love and beauty. I learned a trick here that I have used several times since. I drew the letters on the plywood piece just like the printing on the kit box. Then I carved around them deep enough to cut through the outer layer of the plywood. Then I cut/peeled away the parts of the outer layer I didn't need. The rim around the transom was made in this way too. This left the letters in bas-relief. Of course, they are way too large! This method is useful for creating recessed panels in doors and wainscoting. So that is the story of my brig Freya um 1840 schiffsmodelbaukasten in holtz.

Tom, Yes and no. It has been a while (2018?) since I last did any 3D CAD modeling. I think that was the gun carriages for the schooner build. So at first when I started working on the venturi drawings I had to think a bit to get going. But then I realized that I didn't have to think about how to use the CAD program. I have been using the same program since 1988, and my hands are programmed - like a professional typist or a violinist. I just had to think about what I wanted to do and it happened! Of course, sometimes what I wanted to do wasn't right and I had to start over. But at least the mistakes came naturally!

I realized that there were a few tweaks I needed to make to the visor and venturi to account for some odd angles in the superstructure. I started modelling the superstructure in 3D CAD so I could adjust the venturi. The visor fit without modification, but I had to angle the side pieces of the venturi to match the tops of the bulwark. The angles are non-intuitive. The blueprint doesn't give any dimensions for the heights of the side bulwarks, but just says the angle of the tops matches the sheer of the main deck. The bulwark section between the front and sides is angled at 30 degrees, and the outboard end determines the height of the bulwark side piece. The top of the bulwark side is parallel to the sheer of the main deck at the centerline. Try figuring that out on paper! After taking all of this into account the height and shape of the after side bulwarks, with the circular and elliptical curved top edges, came out just as the blueprints show them. I must have done something right! Another reason for the CAD model is determining the sizes of the wooden pieces I will use to build the model. I don't have a thickness sander or milling machine, so I must use parts that are available commercially. When I scale the dimensions shown on the blueprints to 1:48 the dimensions do not match anything I can buy. What you see in the CAD model is made up of pieces sized to commercially available parts that are the closest I can get to the scale pieces. Generally the differences between the scale dimensions and what I can buy are in the range of 0.010 to 0.015 inch (0.25 to 0.38 mm). That won't be noticeable on a 28 inch (711.2 mm) long model. By the time I get all of the minesweeping gear and other deck fittings figured out I will just about have a complete CAD model of the ship.

Actually, it looks to me he is thinking "Why is he wasting time on all this stuff when he could be petting me?"

You might not want to fill the gaps between the planks if you want the individual wooden planks to be visible on the model - they would be on the full sized vessel. However, Mark's suggestion is a very useful way to fill gaps that you don't want to see, especially where the parts will be painted.

I want to make many of the parts for this build out of brass. I like working with brass and I have been soldering things since I was a kid. I plan to make many of the pieces with photo etching. Here are some of the parts that I needed to use 3D CAD to design. This is a "visor" or sun shade that fits above the front windows of the pilot house. Because of the multiple angles involved the three major surfaces are trapezoids. The two smaller pieces are the supports that fit under the upper surfaces. I wouldn't be too much trouble to make these by trial and error since I have the blueprints for the visor. But 3D CAD lets me determine the exact shapes, and photo etch will produce parts that will fit together precisely. This "venturi" is a much more complicated structure. It catches air blowing against the bulwark around the open bridge and literally funnels it up between the inner and outer surfaces. The openings at the bottom are larger than the openings at the top, so the air is compressed, and therefore accelerated. The resulting stream of air is forced upward over the bulwark. This rising column of air intersects the wind blowing from ahead and deflects it upward. I was amazed to see this really work! I have stood on the open bridge in a driving rain storm and for a few feet behind the bulwark no rain blew on me - it was all blown up and over by the blast of air from the venturi! The three different front surfaces are shown in red after they have been flattened. These are the pieces that will be photo etched. There also are 15 of the support pieces like the one shown in dark grey. All I will have to do is figure out how to solder all of these things together into a complete venturi! The most complex part so far is the funnel. The lower part is a truncated elliptical cone. The funnel cap is another truncated elliptical cone with skewed axes. The actual shapes of the funnel and cap are shown at left in grey. The unfolded flat surfaces are shown in red. There is no way I could ever have figured this out by trial and error! There are a few more flat pieces that are not shown, and I will modify the unfolded funnel piece to include some vent openings in the aft side. I love 3D geometry and figuring out all of these things is one of the reason I wanted to make this model. This isn't the first funnel that I have "flattened" in 3D to determine the surfaces. I did this many years ago for the funnels on my USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 model. That was the initial learning curve. I photo etched the 1:96 scale CLG parts at home - with mixed results that I am not satisfied with. I don't want to mess with it this time. Now I just need to find a photo etch supplier to make the parts.

The problem I had with the home etching kit offered by one supplier is that the photo resist did not develop uniformly. This left thin invisible film "blotches" on the metal that protected it from the etchant. Some parts came out OK, but most of the fine detail pieces were ruined. Eventually I gave up on it. I should say that I have been making printed circuit boards at home since the 1970s, so I am very familiar with metal etching. Of course those early PC boards had enormously wide traces and spaces (>0.05"/1.27 mm) compared to the last PC boards I designed before I retired (0.004"/0.1 mm traces and spaces). You can use Sharpie permanent markers to draw patterns on brass/copper and then etch with a water solution of cupric chloride. The pen ink serves as a resist, and if you don't try to have very fine traces or gaps you can make some pretty simple etched parts. This is how I made my first hobby PC boards. However, this method won't work to etch from both sides of the sheet because you can't align patterns on both sides accurately enough (at least for small parts). It will work only on very thin metal.