Kevin-the-lubber

Bill, it never ceases to amaze me how you just consider, decide, do it, without all the procrastination. I'd probably have spent another week dithering over the merits of each approach and trying out another five (often bad) ideas. They look great, right choice.

Gorgeous build and mind-blowing log. I haven't even reached the end of page 1 yet but feel like I've just sat through one of the best ever model-making tutorials. I made a silent promise to myself, a few days ago, that I wouldn't do too much reading as I find with model-making I am prone to paralysis by analysis, or worse, to thinking 'oh, that looks like a good idea, I think I'll just throw away the next year of my life trying to copy that'. But I'm certainly glad to have followed the signposting in Marc's log. At the very, very least, it's saved me from doing bolts and trenails 🙂. But it also sounds like there's a heck of a lot of scope for different ornaments etc - music to the ears here.

Is there any scope for an (e), similar to (d)? Simulate the hatches by directly cutting fine outlines and planking into the hull with a modelling knife? Might require a bit of puttying to cover the real plank lines in that area, which would be a shame. Otherwise, definitely the veneer, for me. If the US is anything like here, you’ll get samples off eBay for a token sum. You seem to be having a lot of fun with this model Bill, and I’m enjoying watching this come together.

Oh dear, that doesn’t bode well, if I don’t even get get the period right! Thanks for pointing it out, I’ll ask.

Big, colourful kit... I've put the sails to one side. A couple of other things spring to mind in terms of this perhaps being the time to learn them; photo-etching, or getting stuff etched to suit, as I believe it's not especially expensive, and sculpting in Blender, which I've ducked for the last 2 or 3 years. I'll definitely remake all the blocks, deadeyes and suchlike, noting Marc's comment on Bills log that the deadeyes should be round. Cannons and trucks too - anyone have links to drawings of the real thing?

Prelude So, another journey begins. I received the Soleil Royal kit last week after snapping up a reasonably-priced offer on ebay. The kit is one of the older Heller Humbrol pressings dating from 1980's to 2000's. It looks like a very good pressing, I haven't noticed any bad flash and the plastic seems nice and bendy. I've wanted this kit for quite a while but, because it gets mixed views, had planned to leave that for a good few years yet and, perish the thought, try to actually finish one or two other builds first. However, having foolishly opened the box, I'm already on the slippery slope. The plan is to cogitate here for a while before doing any building, drawing on the logs and input those who have built or are in the process of building this kit, particularly Bill's completed log, as that'll be the best step by step going, and Marcs amazing partial scratch build. I have several models on the go, along with a host of other non-model-making projects, and in another 4 or 5 weeks I will retire from career number 3, take the pension and, in theory, have all the time in the world to finish everything off. Famous last words. If the last few months of semi-retirement are anything to go by, I'll be busier post than pre - I seem to be collecting new projects and hobbies at a frightening rate these days. In passing, about a year or two back I decided to replace our ancient and unreliable digital SLR camera and what I landed on (though not by accident) was something that would allow focus stacking. The camera and lenses also happen to weigh slightly less than a party balloon and, in the event, this has triggered an unexpected return to photography as a major hobby. On any day when the light looks interesting, I'm much more likely to disappear off to somewhere with photos to be had than stay hunched over the workbench. So, as I don't have any pretty Soleil Royal pictures to post today, and probably won't for quite a while, let me take the liberty of including a pretty flower instead. The picture of the Iris is not entirely irrelevant. I love the subtleties, nuances of shade and colour contrasts that you see in flowers when you look at them up close. Nature never gets it wrong. What attracted me to the Soleil Royal was not the picture on the box, or sight of a completed build, but Marc's (Hubac's Historian) interpretation based on his extensive research. Such beautiful colours, contrasts and shades. I'm sure I'll be stealing many ideas from his log. That's is not at all to suggest I can paint at that level. (Bill, if you're Larry Da Vinci, I'm your younger brother Les: handy to have around if you need a bit of plastering or concreting, but my best ceiling paintings have involved a 7" roller, a tub of magnolia and a steady supply of tea). However... what I love about painting plastic is that, as I have discovered, it comes off oh so easily with a bit of isopropyl alcohol and elbow grease, so you can try as many times as your patience permits! As my other logs demonstrate, I'm not too bothered about historical accuracy and I use 3D printing to remake parts that I think can be improved on (and to circumvent my artistic limitations!). This is both a blessing and a curse. A lot of things seem very simple to remake at first, but turn out to be quite complicated once you get into them. Sometimes that's because 3D printing is not always the best suitable tool for the job. I'd love to have a CNC mill but I can think of many better things to spend £1000 on! A little task I need to pursue is to try resin casting - I bought a starter kit a few months back but haven't had time to mess around yet. Anyway, part of the purpose of the cogitation period is to take stock of the kit and try to decide in advance what I want to remake and what I don't, and how. I bought a laser cutter/engraver last year (long story, one of those go-fund-me type of deals) so I will certainly do veneer decks and a few other things. Anyway, log started, let's see how we go.

Strange. Is some kind of AI bot parroting my post?

That sounds like good advice. Contrary to appearances the bit I enjoy learning the most is the painting so I’ll be inclined to follow Marc’s lead to some extent, but I also really like the white hull so maybe that too; even though I hate painting white in acrylics! I think this is one for me to study, read and chat a lot before starting, so I’ll create a build log and copy across this conversation as I’m sure there will be plenty to talk about. Oh, and it goes without saying that I’ll be going back through each of yours logs in detail.

Thanks - hopefully not so much that I feel compelled to remake the stern. The Victory has been hard enough!

Bill, I've just taken delivery on my SR kit - very tempting to just dive in! A quick question - did you find the new instructions particularly useful? The old printed version looks pretty good so far as I can see. And what would be your top tips if you were starting the kit all over again? Is there anything you regret doing, or wish you had done?

My SR kit has arrived; contrary to expectations, the pressing looks at least as good as that of the Victory, no flash or distortion evident on a quick once over and the hull halves seem to fit together quite nicely. What am I missing? I've always been under the impression that the SR was of a lesser quality than the Victory, which was part of the reason I'd always planned to do this last, when I had more experience?

That's interesting, I wouldn't have thought to dilute the blackener, though I was going to try soaking some rod in ketchup or brown sauce as a de-oxidiser. I'm sure many on here used to do this with the old copper coins back in the day, to make them look new.

No, don’t let it sit; blacken asap. I have no idea how long it ought to sit for. I first followed the instructions, which was just for a minute or two, then went longer and longer and think I kind of gave up on it after 6 or 7 minutes. I’m sure there must be expert ‘blackeners’ on here that can put both of us straight. My pens of choice are Posca art pens https://www.posca.com/en/discover-posca/history-and-values/#:~:text=Its unrivalled ink%2C whose formulation,“magical” effect of POSCA., but only because that’s what they sell in my local crafts shop and they certainly do the job. But I imagine all acrylic art pens are much of a muchness. I just like how easy it is to get the very effect I expected, but didn’t get, l from the Birchwood blackened. As I may have mentioned elsewhere, I bought spare felt nibs and whittle these to a fine point and/or crush them to make them more like a brush. Just be sure to get art pens, not sharpie type black markers, as the latter go a bit bronze-ish after a little while. You’re doing incredibly well to get those smooth curves with that method. If I understood it correctly, it would be common to get flat spots at the start and end.

Me and you both, Bill. Same with clothes. I can make a black suit look dirty within 5 minutes of putting it on. Marc, I've used Birchwood and had the same result, it would rub off and become more grey than black. Extrapolating from my welding background, I think you need to clean the surface and blacken before a new coat of oxidisation can form. If the brass behaves like sheet, we are talking hours here, not minutes, but neither is it days. (And I could be wrong, it's 40 years since I brazed brass in earnest). This is also where I took to using acrylic pens, the blacks work a treat. I guess you (or I) could also try that old kids trick of letting them soak in brown sauce or anything acidic for a while until they go bright, rinse, then blacken. How did you form the hooks? Whatever your technique, it warrants sharing because yours are so consistent they look machine made. Was it just winding around two pins and cutting to suit?

Funny you should mention Blue Ensign (aka Maurice). I was very taken by his Pegasus back on the old Pete Coleman HMS Victory site and I’ve had his sail-making tutorial bookmarked for years. If only I had some finished yards to practice on! I too hope to move on to wood at some point, or being me, more likely mixed media. But I still have so many things to learn first. Retirement is only a few weeks away though, which will help.

Marc, I can't remember if I've seen you commenting on Bruma's Cutty Sark, but if not, his sails are magnificent and more than worthy of your build. I know what you mean about wanting to maintain the standard all the way through and being unable to settle for less. I have found the facility to make 'better' parts to be a bit of a curse on both the CS and Victory, but especially regarding the masts, spars and rigging, in part because I am someone who has to understand what something does before I can make progress. Hence parking it for now. Quite frustrating as I'm usually a good completer/finisher, but all part of the journey. By the way.... I bought the SR kit on ebay a week or so back. They usually fetch quite a high price this side of the pond but as this one was at a reasonable buy-it-now price I took my chance. IIRC it's quite an old pressing, I hope so anyway. So I now have all the large plastic kits that I would ever want (Victory, Cutty Sark, Kearsarge, Constitution, Soliel Royale) and probably more than I will ever build unless I change tack.

I'm finding it worthwhile to create them in CAD anyway, as I'm learning a few things about their design that I hadn't realised were the case i.e. that the pulley wheels are not central in the block, but slightly offset, and that the blocks are recessed to allow the ropes to run cleanly from the wheel. All obvious stuff really, from an engineering perspective, but not usually represented on plastic kit parts. How well these will print I have yet to find out - some of the sizes are extremely small at 1:100, but previous runs with generic, less carefully designed blocks have been broadly fine.

Thanks Henry, that would more or less correspond with the drawings so I’ll stick with that. In passing, I had no idea thee were so many different fittings and sizes, and wonder does anyone stick to these when modelling. The typical plastic kit just gives four or five variants, versus the dozens in McKays tables.

I'm going to partially answer my own question with respect to rope diameters; the 3 1/2" rope must go around the heart (slaps forehead), doesn't it. So what about the 4 through holes, does 0.4mm dia at 1:100 seem right??

I'm starting to work my way through making all of the rigging fittings listed in McKay's AOTS HMS Victory, and I have a simple query. On his drawings on pages 114 and 115, McKay typically gives basic dimensions and, underneath the height dimension, adds, in brackets other sizes. In the example here, a closed heart, he says "(also 14", 17" & 26")". My query is this - should all the other dimensions be scaled to suit? I suspect it is very obviously 'yes, of course', but thought I'd check anyway. While here, can I also sense check hole sizes. On this drawing, the implication is a rope diameter of about 1 1/2", whereas in his tables on pages 116 - 118, McKay says a 16" closed heart would be used for ropes of around 3 1/2" diameter (11 1/2" circumference). Which is true? There actually isn't anywhere near enough room for 4 x 3 1/2" rope holes, but equally, 1 1/2" ropes seem a bit on the skinny side. Or am I missing something?

Ps. I don’t use sharpies or any other kind of normal permanent marker pen, for that very reason (I use them all the time for plant pot labels and you’re right, they fade to grey within a year). I use Pentel acrylic art pens, I can’t say whether they have the same issue, only that none of the ‘pen-painted’ parts I’ve been handled this morning, at least some of which were painted a year or more back, have lost their blackness. BTW, as I’m writing, I also bought a pack of spare ‘nibs’ for the pens, so I can trim one to a very fine point. They go feathery quite quickly but I just trim off the feathers. I’ve found black and gold pens are excellent. Other colours seem to be less opaque so I stick with paints for these.

I think that's come out very well indeed Marc. Your opening line about the coated wire resonated, I think I found the same on my CS cathead levers, the blacking just rubbed off, and I resorted to using a black acrylic marker pen. I like that it adds more or less zero 'paint' thickness, but the downside is that it has a sheen to it, though this can be made matt with lacquer.

Glad you’ve got it figured. That’s quite a different way to how I’d do this in F360 and it would probably just confuse the issue by getting into that. Can I ask, what are you aiming for as an end product? A CNC-milled kit, or something like that?

In what way are you stumped? I don’t use Rhino, only F360, but the principles are broadly the same.

Just a brief note that I've parked the CS for now. The delicacy of some parts of the masts and yards was becoming a bit trying and I'll come back to it with fresh eyes at a later point.