allanyed

Bonjour Besson and welcome to MSW. Someone will no doubt reply that this an English only forum but I hope you stay with us. In the meantime I have an edited Google translation of your note below. pas de quoi, ciao, cheers, &c. Allan Hello to all friends on the other side of the Atlantic. You have here a very elaborate forum full of tips and building techniques. I discovered this site through Pinterest and I don't regret it. I started model making a long time ago (alas) by building radio controlled planes which fell too often !. In love with the sea, I therefore relied on boats sailing and sinking only very rarely. After an interruption of a good decade of this leisure for professional reasons, one day, while surfing the net, I had the opportunity to discover photographs of models of 18th century ships built with the framework represented in the Admiralty method. There, it was a great shock. The complexity and finesse of the work of the model makers presenting their work made me fall in admiration for such great successes. I asked myself the question of knowing if I would be able to arrive at the lowest rung of the ladder of these of these men. So I first looked at all the books dealing with the construction of vessels and in this matter there is something to read. It already took me two good years and at the same time I tried to make a small boat following a plan of Chapman. This experience, which was far from perfect, did not discourage me and I decided to embark on the adventure of the "Big Belly" which had a forum at the time, which like the yours, allowed the model makers to present the progress of their model and to glean the information necessary for the good completion of their model. I spent five years to build the hull and it is not completely finished because I moved by changing the region and the fittings of my new house stopped the construction of my model. However the demon of model making begins to recover me and I would like to start again with a small model of longboat in kit (the pre-cut members will relieve my joints of 72 springs) So there you are, if the shipments can be made to Europe, I would be delighted to join you. Good evening to all

Phil, The following is the description given of the model at Preble Hall. Sorry, that is all have on that model. I took the photos during my last visit to Annapolis, 9 years ago. Maybe time for a repeat visit!!! Et Tosti, Wayne Kempson and I were very lucky and had Grant Walker spend an hour with us during our visit. That was a thrill in itself! Allan

Welcome to MSW gxsdent59. If you would be so kind, please let us know a name (real or made up) by which we can address you? Thanx! Allan

Thanks Mark, this was definitely my mistake and my apologies to Phil. Your additional photo is much clearer and I made the deadly mistake of "assuming" based on the other model photos. I had never before seen pins in the beakhead rail, but that is no excuse for making an assumption. As you point out, is this inclusion of the pins the way it was on ships of that era? Thanks again for pointing this out. Cheers Allan

Hello Phil, There are timberheads that come up and through the beakhead rail that you mention, thus no pins. Cheers Allan

Found this in the American Bee Journal. "As beeswax is the primary construction material of the beehive, its chemical composition is integral to how the hive functions. This same material, the storage location of food resources and developing brood, must be relatively non-reactive, so beeswax’s neutral pH (7) suits the need perfectly." Allan

James, I am sure there are many suppliers to be found on line. (below is a link to Amazon). I bought some tiny LEDs some years ago, but was very happy that I went to the store that had them. I had no idea there were so many choices and most were not what I wanted/needed. Going to the store and speaking with a person that was something of an expert saved me a lot of problems. These have been discussed here at MSW on a few occasions so I am sure there will be more helpful posts responding to you. In the meantime..... https://www.amazon.com/EDGELEC-Flickering-Flicking-Emitting-Resistors/dp/B077XDPXNT/ref=asc_df_B077XDPXNT/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241869999306&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=590792892296286093&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9012276&hvtargid=pla-425206898351&psc=1 Allan

Ian, What kind of information are you looking for? Is your build a scratch build or from a kit? There are drawings from NMM of the Slade's Arrogant (1761) class ships including Vanguard (1787). AOS has a book on the Bellona (1760) which is also a Slade design 74. As it was launched only a year before Arrogant, maybe some of the information in that book would be useful. Allan

Welcome Bob!! I enjoyed your story very much. Wish all new members would share a few of their own stories as well as you did. I have a nephew in the Coast Guard and his brother's wife is also in the Coast Guard. Great awakening for them both as they had been stationed in the Tampa area, then Hawaii, then Houston, and now in DC and North Carolina. This is the first time either had ever seen snow! I told them to look out, they could wind up in NJ or Alaska and what they have for winter now is nothing. Cheers Allan

Hello Steve, According to James Lees' book The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War, page 159, jackstays on the yards were introduced in 1811. If this is correct for a bark such as Endeavour as well, and as she was launched in 1764 and eventually scuttled in Newport, Rhode Island in 1778, there would have been no jackstays on the yards. Photos of the model of Endeavour at NMM which was rigged by Mr. Lees does not show jackstays. I am sure there are others here with a lot more information on Endeavour that may be of more help to you. Allan

Thanks for those postings Alan! There are a lot of great documents out there but finding them is not so easy at times. One of my favorites is the following that I stumbled on when studying Captain Blackwood as part of the Euryalus project. TO CAPTAIN THE HON. HENRY BLACKWOOD, H.M. SHIP, EURYALUS. [From " Blackwood's Magazine" , for July, 1833.] Victory, October 10th, 1805. My dear Blackwood, Keep your five Frigates, Weazle and Pickle, and let me know every movement. I rely on you, that we can't miss getting hold of them, and I will give them such a shaking as they never yet experienced; at least I will lay down my life in the attempt. We are a very powerful Fleet, and not to be held cheap. I have told Parker, and do you direct Ships bringing information of their coming out, to fire guns every three minutes by the watch, and in the night to fire off rockets, if they have them, from the mast-head. I have nothing more to say, than I hope they will sail to-night. Ever yours most faithfully, NELSON &BRONTE. Cadiz East 13 Leagues

Thanks for posting the photos Jond. Allan

Oliver, On the models I have made with sails, I sewed the bolt ropes on the sails so glue was not necessary. If you are going to use glue, I would avoid CA as it could leave a stain around the edge of the sail and will leave the edge of the sail brittle. Allan

Harv, Keep in mind that even if there is no rabbet that can be cut into the model, the wales should taper to the same thickness as the planking above and below where they end at the stem. If there were a rabbet and they were not tapered, the rabbet would have needed to be a different width at the wales and that was not the case as far as I have ever seen. I am curious about the bow area in the photo. Does anyone know if the planking over this area is something called for in the kit? Allan

Hi Bob Sorry for the delay, just now saw your post. I got the drawings from the Library of Congress. https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.ma1719.photos/?sp=1&st=gallery Click on [ Drawings from Survey HAER MA-168 ] which is on the left side of the page that opens a little down from the top, and they all come up. They are free. There are a ton of photos as well. She is sometimes referred to Ernestina as well as her name was changed when she was sold in the 40's. PM if you have a problem and I can forward the drawings to you. Allan

Welcome to this motley crew of ours Max. Tell us a little about yourself and if you are working on a project that you would care to share. Allan

Welcome aboard! If you start a build log as mentioned above, I am sure you will get plenty of feedback on planking. Also, please read the planking tutorials here at MSW, they will probably answer many of your questions and help you avoid problems. Allan

Oddball, No questions are stupid here. Even the most experienced builders/history seekers here find something new on a continual basis that results in questions that may seem obvious to some, but not to all. Without a time machine to go back to see how it was done we all ask questions. Regarding pins, depending on the era, yes, bolts, trennals, and various other "pins" were used and many model builders make and use them, myself included. But, depending on the model scale, their inclusion can ruin an otherwise great looking planking job. Over sized trennals will make the hull or deck look like it has the measles. Say a hull is planked and "pinned" with 1.5" trennals. At 1:98 scale, these would be 0.015" diameter. The smallest hole on a Byrnes draw plate, which is a top quality piece, is 0.016 so can be done, but making nails that small is not easy, even using bamboo. Plus they will barely be visible. Where bolts are required, they can be down to 3/4" diameter which is only 0.00765 diameter at scale 1:98. EDM brass wire can be found to .001 diameter uncoated so pretty close. Go up to 1:48 and the task is easier, if not extremely tedious, when you consider there many thousands needed on a hull. Side, note --- I don't recall the model or builder, but years ago I saw photos posted somewhere of a model that used no glue at all. Everything was built as was done in the yards back in the day, with trennals and bolts. Allan

Harve, If you taper and spile your planks correctly and pre-bend the planks to some degree you don't need any clamps or pins. Simply hold them in place with your finger for a minute or so and they will hold. This is assuming you are using pieces of plank of appropriate length, not one long strake the entire length of the hull and are using aliphatic glue. Please do read the planking tutorials here at MSW. Allan

Lots of great advice above. You may want to also consider the thickness of the wood and the type. Many kits seem to use walnut that is very thin and grain is also an issue so splitting is not uncommon compared to other species. Dry bending is OK for many species, but not all. Allan

The type of wood can make all the difference. Walnut is not a good choice as it is so grainy and thin pieces tend to crack and split with ease. Take a look at the "Wood Discussion" section here at MSW and you will get an idea of what woods are being commonly used with success. Some are reasonably price, some are dear. As to thickness variations if you are ripping your own, Barkeater has a great point. A thickness sander is a great way to get even thickness but that is an investment that you may not want to make at this point. Even if they are varying in thickness, once in place on the hull, you will be sanding anyway and this should take out any variations in thickness. Allan

Hi Jeff, One more comment. Tim's photo is really great.... except..... there looks to be a bottle of CA glue. UGH! (My own personal opinion and certainly not a universal one😕) If you can start your endeavors into wooden ship building without it, I think many, if not most, members here will agree that you will be better off. There is no need for CA anywhere in building wooden ships and based on posts here at MSW it seems it causes as many problems as it solves. I think by now you see what I meant about getting input from the crew. Allan

Hello Jeff, I did a quick search and found a couple videos that sound like the ones to which you are referring. (DevMa models?) My apologies to the builder in the video, but IMHO I would not use anything from the planking video as a how-to guide, including his use of pins. First and foremost, study the tutorials on planking here at MSW. Follow some other builds plank-on-bulkhead models like similar to your Albatross. There are numerous posts here at MSW on what tools are needed/recommended and these are a great reference. For the kit, I would guess hand tools will suffice, so no big investment is needed to start off. Specifically, regarding pins, Tee pins to temporarily hold the planks are an option, but definitely not pins shoved all the way home as they need to be taken out. Remember that the magnificent contemporary models from hundreds of years ago that still exist today were built with hand tools. First time builds can launch you into a lifetime of builds or end the journey with the first model. You are very lucky to have this forum available to you as most of us had no such source of thousands of helpers and teachers when we started our first builds, so take advantage of it and learn from our mistakes. Most of all, have fun with your project!!! Allan

Thanks to each and everyone of you. Room in the shop is not a problem, but in the house for display, it could be. 1:72 is definitely out. Thanks again and Happy New Year. Allan

I hope to start construction of Litchfield (50) 1695 this coming year. Her gundeck is 150 feet. Over all length, rigged she is about 200 feet thus about 50" at 1:48, 37" at 1:64 and 33" for 1:72. I am still wavering on scale, be it 1:48 or 1:64 or 1:72 . As I hope to fully rig her and show good detail, I am leaning to 1:64 (or possibly 1:72) but nothing smaller after discussions with Ed T. I really want to be able to get the detail, yet not have a monster to display but 1:72 worries me. Old eyes and all that need to be considered. I am looking for any advice from anyone that cares to share, based on successful or not so successful experience. Thanks to all Allan