vaddoc

I think you are right EG, these ships look elegant but in reality their hulls are fairly simple surfaces and as you have proven can be built in a simplified way. Had not realised till now. Couple of more thoughts The stern line will indeed affect the shape of the surface but it will progressively get flatter the closer to the bow it gets, I see a ripple in your surface near the stern, I think this would need some looking into prior to building-something is not quite right. Another thing, Rhino can do this, probably faster and better, as you have access to it you could have a play with it. I think you ll like it a lot!

I now get it EG Essentially, you created the sheer and chine from 2 views. The keel and stern are in the midline. You created the last needed line which is the stern. Then, the software created the 2 surfaces bound within these lines. The issue I see is that these surfaces are bound to be flat, since more lines (frames) are needed to determine how convex or concave the surface will be along its length. The frames that this hull will produce will have 2 straight parts meeting at the chine, with no curvature at all. Still, a complete hull produced relatively fast!

You just reminded me Justin, putting my finished model with full sails set, out in the open on top of a tall bin, to photograph in the sunshine. Then the wind blew...

Not to worry. Using by mistake a plank that took 3 hours to make as scrap wood or messing up the paint job of a large hull. All part of the fun.

I am a bit late to the party but Happy Birthday Bob! You seem to be having a cracking 7th decade of life, some of the cracking being your ribs😁. Don't give up on the gaff rigging though, indeed many ropes going everywhere but they do make sense eventually. I went through the same journey with the Deben. Best wishes Vaddoc

I had an interesting message from @Jaager, so I ll add a few more thoughts. It seems that Beech which is plentiful this side of the pond, is not as easy to find or as inexpensive in America. I was not aware of this. Now, methylated spirits is ethanol with nasty chemicals added so it cannot be drunk. Jaager suggested that Shellac could be diluted in isopropyl alcohol, this never crossed my mind. For a sealer, I still prefer water based products. As a finish though, it worth a try to see how beech wood likes Shellac. IPA should be more pleasant to work with. Tung oil, as a finish, needs initially to be diluted with mineral spirits. However, I only use it to change the colour of the wood so no need to dilute. In regards to sealing the wood prior to staining, my research so far shows that wood conditioners, recommended prior to staining difficult woods, are essentially varnishes or some type of sealers to close the very large open pores and prevent blotchiness. Indeed, my results on beech were impressive-sealing the wood prior to staining works well. I ll get some shellac and see how this works.

It has been a very long time since my last post, progress is at snail pace but at least things are moving along. I had some equipment issues: My Dremel moto saw suddenly died. It had 8 years of continuous hard use. I opened it, cleaned it, repacked the bearings with grease and put it back together. Still dead. I suspect the brushes are gone but I thought best to get another one. I like it very much due to small footprint and the ability to take side cutting blades. The garboard planks are in place, so I started work on the first broad plank. It is much easier to use scarfed planks than very long single piece ones and I will stagger the scarfs. So here it goes: So far, the time invested on the 3D plans pays off. The distances seem identical on both sides and the two plank halves are identical. Planking continues I switched to 1 mm card, much better than the 2 mm I was using The plank halves are not too curved and I don't think they ll get any worse. They would have needed very narrow blanks. Now, I am paying much more attention cutting the plank in this boat than I did on the Launch. The planks are sanded to line, with the disc sander on the convex edge, with hand on the concave edge. The result is very close fitting planks so far: The twist at the bow is pretty acute, I hope it is not going to get worse. Just wetting the beech though is enough to get the wood to fall into place. Interestingly, I had to trim the second frame a bit for the plank to sit nicely, exactly the same area that I had problem during my lofting. The beauty of the hull slowly starts to emerge I used a sander to trim the bow end of the second plank, much more accurate result It is getting there slowly With the hand held belt sander, the scarfs are very easy to make The bow twist is indeed significant And a final photo, boats are beautiful things. Till next time Vaddoc

I truly enjoyed catching up Brian. This is a magnificent model, the mechanical bits and piping are so realistic. Weathering will lift this model to another level. I have no experience with it, I am looking forward to the rest of this journey. Regards Vaddoc

You could also spill the planks.

I must admit I very much like beech. It is a very hard wood but it bends beautifully. It holds an edge, glues well, cuts well, sands well. Does not splinter. It is readily available, cheap and available in all sizes with very clean sheets - no knots or blemishes. However, it swells a lot with changes in humidity and has a very distinctive grain. I like the grain for modelling but I think I am the only one... In any case, I ve used beech extensively so far but never for planking. This time, I decided to plank the 2 boats I am currently building in beech. In 1:10 scale, they are quite large. Now, one hull is ready and the other is being planked so I ve been thinking how to finish the thing. I was planning to paint the hulls but it was suggested that it would be a shame to hide the planking so now some kind of clear finish is needed. And here lies the rub. Both the pear and beech wood I ve used are steamed and have a pink hue. The hull is sanded to 400 grit and it really cries for some colour enhancing and finish. The second photo shows the hull against coloured wood - it needs something doing. Beech wood is notorious for resisting any finish. The wood has areas with very large open pores and others that are quite the opposite. Any staining attempt will result in ugly blotchiness. I tried to simply use Tung oil but the results were not good. The photo shows how non-uniformally the oil has coloured the wood - it is the segment on the left, Tung oil straight on raw sanded wood Now, treating the wood with sanding sealer dramatically improves things. I know most people use Shellac, I personally never liked it - I find methylated spirits too toxic. I ve been using a water based sanding sealer which I think is excellent (Decoart-Americana multi purpose sealer). The bottom wood sample was sanded to 400 grit, had a coat of sealer, sanded with 400 grit and then had Tung oil. Much better colour uniformity. So Tung oil needs sealing first. What about changing the colour though? I decided to try Van Dyke crystals. I ve never used the stuff. I applied it directly to sanded wood. Fantastic colour but also dramatic grain inversion, the growth rings really stand out. Now, the next photo is really interesting. The two upper strips have been coated in different strengths dye. The third was first sealed with sanding sealer, then dyed. Fantastic result! The last is just plain beech wood. This was the only time I succeeded dyeing beech wood. All my subsequent attempts were disastrous. Did not matter how many coats of sealer, what grit of sand paper, every time was a massive failure. Photos bellow There is no room for error finishing a hull, especially with a dye which cannot be sanded off. So Van Dyke crystals cannot be considered due to poor reliability and repeatability. Next I tried stains. I had some left over samples of Osmo stains. I had found out from previous experience, that straight onto wood results are not good. However, applied on sanded and sealed wood, results were excellent. In the next photo, sealed wood is on top right (3 different stains), raw wood on the bottom. Very nice, very uniform colour. Perhaps a second coat would enhance it more. However, these stains on the pear wood keel did not look good at all and I did not wanted to treat the 2 woods separately - Too much trouble and room for error. So stains are out for this project but in general: Sand the wood to 320 grit, seal the wood with decoart water based sanding sealer, sand to no more than 320 grit and use Osmo stains. You ll have a good result on this very stubborn wood. So, we are back to Tung oil. I experimented using 2 coats vs 1 coat of sanding sealer and sanding to 320 vs 400 grit. The best outcome was with using one coat of sealer and sanding to 320 grit. 400 grit seamed to seal the wood too much. Even if something goes wrong, this thick Tung oil does not soak deep onto sealed wood and can be sanded off or stained over. In due course I ll seal the hull, Tung oil it and see what happens. I l try to post a photo in this thread. I hope this will be of some help to others, especially as there is very little info on this subject on the net. Best wishes Vaddoc

Very interesting Egilman. Even with a complete table of offsets, drafting a hull is a big job. I am taking a sit in the back, curious to see how you ll fill the gaps between the different views you ve included in your 3D box.

Kev, just get a few pieces of wood and a few products and try. There will be some cost involved as Tung oil, Shellac, methylated spirits, sanding sealers, WOP, varnishes, sprays, brushes etc may not be prohibitely expensive but they do add up. However, experimenting will be the only way to find out what you like and how things work. Also, not all woods work the same with the same finish so check the wood you are actually using. For example, pear wood works great with Tung oil, the beech I am currently using seems it does not. All part of the same journey. Vaddoc

+1 for all the above. Especially compass and calliper are in constant use. However, I do love my 1 m long steel ruler!

Try 3M 618 sand paper. Amazing stuff, I only use this for many years now. It is silicon carbide (not aluminum oxide), has some anticlog technology that works very well and it is very robust. It is not cheap and needs a bit of googling. Typical 3M high quality. 120 removes wood in a controlled way, 180, 240, 320 and 400 leave the wood so smooth that it reflects light. I cut sheets of all grades into thin strips and use them with a solid flat backing, or sometimes a flexible one - as needed

Getting a straight line with a V chisel is to my experience very difficult. It will end up wavy-especially in large scales. Repeated cuts with a very sharp chisel, up to 6 mm for straight, 3 mm for curves, then deepening the grove without touching the edge of the rabet, works much better for me.

Dear all It has been 2 months since my last post, I have not had the time to work on the boat or even to catch up with your logs. I will try to though, in the meantime I do hope that you are doing well! Today though I did visit the shipyard and did some work-and had a nasty surprise. I am still not certain how I will secure the planks, whether I ll use threaded brass wire, treenails or bras pins. I experimented with 0.55 mm brass pins, nailed against a steel surface. The tips bend exactly as they should and hold the planks very securely. I think however the pin heads are out of scale. I finished the starboard garboard, the planks are secured with brass pins 0.6 mm through 0,5 mm pilot holes. The scarf is glued for now but some form of reinforcement nailing or screwing will go on. As I am not sure what I will use to fasten the planks to the ribs, I just cut the pins leaving a length so I can pull them out later as these are the temporary frames. Then I started work on the port side. Disaster... A few days ago, I needed a small piece of wood so I just broke a segment from a scrap piece I found on the bench. yep, that was the plank! I used the broken pieces to recreate the plank and thankfully, with a bit of sanding it came out fine. Then, I secured it in place The ends at the bow will need to be trimmed, I think I ve put the nails very close to the trimming line-we ll see. Till next time vaddoc

Get well soon Michael, all the best. Very good to hear all went well Vaddoc

Very nice Bill! Seems you had fun and learnt a lot. Good luck with your next project.

System 3 brushes. Fantastic results with acrylic and enamel.

Elmers colour changing filler is very good, my preferred filler. I tried osmo filler as well-very good, more liquid, dries much faster and comes in various colours.

All done Mark! But the lines are on the other side of the boat. The final fairing will be done while cutting the actual planks Today I nipped over to the shipyard, just for a few minutes. I put the planks to the steamer and then straight on the boat. Beech responds great to steaming, the planks immediately twisted to shape. Actually, the garboards look reasonable The problem with planking without a complete stem is that it is difficult to get the planks to end up at the same level on both sides. The excess wood at the plank edges will be trimmed away when the false stem is installed. The scarf joint needs a bit of tinkering. Or maybe I just need to push the half a bit forward. Best wishes to all Vaddoc

Many thanks to all for your comments and likes! Bedford, that was great. Unfortunately I do not own a quality plane that can reliably do the job. However, your suggestions were very helpful and I think I did find a solution. Also, I decided that the planking will be carvel. I will in the future make a large scale lapstrake boat but I will choose an easier boat. It will be lots of fun but needs to wait. I first made the port garboard in two halves. It took very many tries, I kept getting it wrong but finally I got it right. The planks are sanded to shape so the edges are much smoother compared to the Launch, which were cut with a knife. This is the overlap for the scarf joint The twist in the garboard is significant, almost 90 degrees. Planks will easily take a bend but will resist a lot to be twisted. Note the gap between plank and keel-it disappears with the plank in place. Another area that needed attention was the stem. The edges have to be trimmed to accept the plank ends. After planking, the excess plank material will be trimmed off so that the false stem will sit flush. Or so is the plan... Next, I tackled the scarfing. After a bid of thinking and testing, taking on board Bedford's suggestions, I find a solution. Since the planks are 2 mm thick, I went for a 25 mm scarf joint. Basically, I just used the belt sander bellow to create the bevels. This worked fine with no dramas. The edges will stand a bit proud but nothing a bit of sanding will not fix. I ll probably try and thin the edges a bit more. Now, much more care has gone into this boat, compared to the Launch. The CAD drawings are much more accurate, the frames were cut with much greater care and generally, it was put together better. With this in mind, I decided to make a set of identical garboard halves for the starboard side. Test fitting: They fit! So now I have both garboards. They need to be steamed and secured into place, this will also make the whole structure much more rigid. Another issue that needs to be dealt with is how to secure the planks to the frames. I was thinking of using threaded brass wire but now I am not so sure. This was the plan for the lapstrake. With carvel planking, sanding of the hull will be needed and the brass will complicate things. Maybe tree nails will be a better choice. Regards Vaddoc

I very much like the Humbrol spray primer. Goes on thin, sandable, dries quickly, does not smell. Comes in white, red and grey (most versatile). It will cover everything and solves adhesion issues.

Dear friends Due to increasing life commitments it's been almost a month since my last post. Unfortunately, I also did not have any time and more importantly peace of mind to visit the various very interesting logs I 've been following - I will try and catch up. However, I found some scraps of time to visit the shipyard and made a bit of progress. In the last post, I had divided the hull to three zones. Excluding the very curved bow, this hull seems to be much easier to plan that the Launch. I simply used the planking fan diagram to divide the zones into plank widths at every station. I used a baten to figure out the plan ends at the bow and stern. I have decided to scarf the planks so I do not care how much spilling will be needed and how curved they 'll end up to be. The final fairing of the planks will be done during the actual planking but I hope my lines are not far off. It is very difficult to capture the run of the planks right side up, due to the size of the boat but they look ok But now it is clear that this boat will be very difficult to do lapstrake. I am concerned that this curved bow will cost me my sanity. I wonder whether it would be better to do a carvel planking and leave the lapstrake for a future boat with a more friendly bow. Decisions-decisions... For now, I started making the first template, for the garboard plank. Initially I thought to do it in 3 pieces but then realised it makes no sense to have so many scarfs - one is plenty, giving a length of 3 to 3.5 m per plank. The last photo shows the pieces for the aft segment of the garboard-they still need to be connected. I have the feeling that the garboard should be a bit wider but I am not going back, it will be fine. Also, I need to figure out a way to scarf the planks. It needs to be reproducible and reasonably easy. Also, for this boat I will sand the planks to shape, and will put more effort to have minimal gaps. Regards Vaddoc

Personally, I try to avoid fruit woods for planking. They are a bit too hard to work with and a bit reluctant to bend, especially along the axis of the plank. I find maple and beech much nicer. Beech is much harder than maple and has a huge distinctive grain, both hold an edge very well. Walnut is terrible. Maple hull, later painted. The stains were caused by aliphatic glue that I did not bother cleaning... Beech hull, fate yet unknown.