themadchemist

The older AL swift kits have no stern bulkhead, but the newer versions (those with below deck areas) have a bulkhead. I agree 100% with your Dad, I always told my students: Show me someone that has never failed and I'll show you a person that has attempted nothing beyond what they know. Failure is the proof of doing, if one doesn't want to fail, do nothing, but expect nothing also. Babe Ruth struck out more times then he hit Home Run, but nobody remembers those, because he never quit swinging. Failure doesn't mean your wrong, it means you just found another way NOT to do it. One of my biggest struggles was not knowing how far to sand as there was no bulkhead, so I just let the curvature of the bulkheads and the lay of a plank make that decision for me. I ended up taking much more away then I expected to get the plank lay right, its a nerve racking process when its your 1st time and the AL instructions were so poor. The newer instructions may be better, but I doubt it. Honestly though, I'm thankful for the poor instructions, as having to figure things out myself and getting help from others from the MSW community, gave me a freedom in building from which, I've never looked back. I've also made friends I can't imagine not having. The community of MSW is such an outstanding resource and I have never asked a person a question, where I didn't get more information then expected, from everything like picking out tools and ship plans to how to bend ebony or photo-etch brass. One has but to ask, I always felt honored that experienced builders with decades of experience would answer the questions of a new builder with a $30 ebay kit. I don't think I'd be where I am today without this community. This is when I realized this hobby also filled an emotional void lacking since my disability. I pay back all I know, to tribute those that helped me. Encouragement is a strong force in a hobby with so many struggles and one can never have too many friends. I was thinking this morning about the past 2 years since I started building and I've probably spend 2/3 or more of my build time not touching a kit but rather at a keyboard, mouse or with a book. I ended up in graduate school purely because they paid me to be there and it was free as long as I TA'd classes, But mostly I did it because it was FUN. I love research, both the mental and tactile aspects. I built my own research instrument in grad school, as funds weren't available otherwise and that taught me a great deal of self-reliance. After disability, ship/boat building has given me something to fill both my mental needs and also my tactile needs .... and as with grad school I seem to spend most of the time in the library. the bonus I never expected was the emotional support There is nothing you cant fix. To prove that point look at this overhaul Dan Vadas did for a friend whose father passed way and so he completed the Vicky as a kind gesture. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4965-restoring-and-finishing-a-very-rough-del-prado-hms-victory-by-dan-vadas/ Its hard to believe but this is before. and After.

The method I found most useful was to make the sanding stick about the length between your thumb and index finger, with 1 to 1.5 inches of sand paper on one end. Let the paperless end ride the inner bulkheads and there is no way the sandpaper can hit the rear bulkhead until the balsa is low enough for that. Using the stick like a block sander and the bulkheads as the riding surface. Making it fit your thumb and index finger allows you to sand without knocking knuckles on the bulkheads There is no such thing as too many sanding sticks. This set I made for the longboat build in various grits and with the end cut at a bevel and paper CA'd to the end. Its a VERY handy set of smaller sanding sticks. I color coded them with colored pencils to help in grabbing them without having to looking at the grit label

I think she looks good. That first picture shows a great compound curvature. The problem you had with the openings is strange as the deck isn't shifted back or it would over hang at the stern. So it must be an AL issue. You will find many of those. I had similar issues on deck symmetry and just as you did with the openings, used deck sheet remains to widen one side. Your addition will work and since it isn't seen, no one will know unless reading this. I, late in my build, ripped up decking and closed the back hole as I decided to remove the aft deckhouse and with block sanding you cant tell where the hole was after re-planking over the deck. You might draw a center-line from stem to stern and measure widths from it to the edges at several points to check for any asymmetry. If there is overhang you can just shim the bulkheads underneath. Here is were I had to add, as you did, but to the deck edge.

Personally I use Elmers carpenter woodglue Max, it is an interior/exterior glue which claims waterproof and stainable. Most PVA glues dry clear so I don't see a problem with color, I'm more interested in wood absorption as this prevents later staining or oiling from penetrating the wood. I used the above glue for making cherry filler for filling micro gaps in the 2nd planking and had no interference when tung oil was applied to the hull. It has worked for me and its been a constant throughout my DSotM build. Dan Vadas has a tutorial on using glue and sanding dust for filling, that's worth a look. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/814-how-i-fix-boo-boos-and-oopsies-mistakes-by-dan-vadas-share-your-own-fixes-here/ As far as waterproof? I've deconstructed using only water, so being waterproof doesn't seem to be an issue. The transom removal from my longboat happened over a month after gluing also, so it was still removable after a long drying period. I did use isopropyl for that removal IIRC though, rather then water. That removal is here, post #100, you will also notice on that page the dowel sanding sticks in various grits I made for detail sanding. I use many diameter dowels and grits, they are cheap to make and very handy. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4510-longboat-by-themadchemist-tmc-ms-small-90mm-of-holly-and-ebony/page-7 There are many discussions on glues in forum threads and I've come to the conclusion that its like picking a favorite color or politics. Each person picks what they prefer and that usually takes using and experiencing with how each works for the job. I don't know how many glues I have, more then 10, maybe 20. Experiment and see what suits you is my best advise. On getting the compound concave shape leading into the stern, which Grimber refers to, I suggest using a plank and testing the run for the shaping process. The stern of the DSotM was shaped with rasps, then sandpaper wrapped dowels to maintain the concave shape. The tools used for shaping the stern. Since the transitions from bulkhead to bulkhead must be smooth, the best way to verify is by seeing how the plank lays across them. In Shaping the planks for the biggest part thru the stern upsweep, you will find that you have some very crooked planks. Here is one after wetting and clamping it to the frame to dry. This is also before any narrowing, edge beveling or spiling occurred.

Looking closely at your stern bulkhead, it looks as if you have faired it possibly before adding the balsa? In the photo it appears that the bevel on the right has reduced the width at the top of the bulkhead and the bevel may be too steep. The best way to check is by laying a plank across it and see if it lays right. Is the run smooth or wavy. That is how I shaped mine. If there is to much taken off that right stern bulkhead. glue on a shim (strip of planking) and start over. Everything is fixable.

that's where the older swift really differs a lot, there is no back bulkhead at the transom on the old kit. So I just used my eye. Here are some progression pics of mine at this stage as digging through my log would be a nightmare

yes, CA is cyanoacrylate, better known as superglue, crazy-glue.... PVA is Polyvinyl acetate or Elmers, wood glue.... These are the 2 most commonly used glues in building. Sometimes epoxy is called for also. Personally I stick with PVA exclusively for anything wood to wood anymore. Although I used CA on the canoe, I think that build changed my mind on using CA. PVA forces us to slow down and gives us time to properly position pieces, while CA I find works to quickly for my taste. Midwest actually recommended CA for the canoe build, it even had you wipe the hull of the canoe with CA to seal it. That's why I still have never added a finish to the petersboro as I'm afraid it will blotch. The CA did eliminate basswood's fuzz issues though. I sanded to 1000 grit and its as smooth as glass, but I'd hate to ruin it by adding a finish and having it blotchy. There are so many things to consider while building and it's a learn by experience process. Some builder Love CA, and I always say use what works for you. CA can have some nasty allergic reactions also, I know some users that can't use it without consequences. My reasoning is this, with CA you can force a piece in place, where with PVA I need to have the piece shaped better before gluing. This slows me down and makes me work shaping each piece much more before gluing. I believe this helps me be a better builder. As you get to planking, you find some very crooked planks are needed to fit the hull curvature. Shaping and fitting them better requires less aggressive clamping. It very relaxing for me, I tend to zone out while planking. It is one of my favorite parts. Its one reasosn I stopped the DSotM and built the longboat, to get a planking fix.

If you use that same "eye" you've used so far it WILL be excellent. I tend to eyeball many things rather then measure, on small stuff sometimes I think over exaggerating certain features or ratios, sometimes gives a more detailed look, in for example the shroud to ratline ratio. When I see shrouds tied with ratline of the same size its like fingernails on a chalkboard for me, but in some kits the rope is so limited. My swift had 2 sizes of white thread. I upgraded to 5 sizes of brown and 4 of tan to cover all my bases. I just thought you might have used some scrap rope for practice, as it looked different.

No Matti, I think the size on the model looks perfectly matched to the real ship photo scale-wise. It was just that the practice shrouds looked smaller to my eye, like I said it could have been the background board, just like the outside lighting give a better photographic representation of color. I was just thinking that if it was smaller, the proportion of shroud to ratline would be greater on the model, if the small ratline size was used on the model and would look great. I'm not nit-picking, just thinking out loud. I'm not saying anything is wrong, just wondered if the practice shrouds were thinner or the same as on the model. Looking at these 2 pictures, assuming shroud separation is constant, to my eye the practice shroud look thinner. Its probably an illusion from the background.

Hey Matti Not being critical, just curious. ...was the practice done with smaller diameter rope on the shrouds? I saved pictures to the desktop and compared your actual shrouds and the practice shrouds appear smaller...but you know how hard scale is to judge... (I have found I save lots of pictures for blowing up to see detail better) The reason I ask is that I have a huge issue when the shroud to ratline proportions are not far enough apart. The proportion on the practice looks good, but the shrouds look smaller diameter then your previous photos of your Wasan 1628. Looking at the real ship rigging the ratline dimension appears 1/2 or less. Here's the picture you posted earlier of the real ship and a cutout, which becomes pixelated when expanded, but as expanded the ratlines appear to be even a smaller diameter (less than 1/2). Isn't scaling a pain. Also can anyone out there tell me the best way the measure rope diameter, The compression in the calipers gives quite a range and I finally just had Chuck send what he saw best. Having many differing thicknesses really helps and for me adds HUGELY to the overall detail. Again, I know whatever you do will be Exceptional, or it wouldn't happen. The practice shrouds just looked smaller.. but that could have been the board background. Ratlines are really going to make a huge wonderful change, it always does. You will probably be tying clove hitches in your dreams before your finished. My builds always invade my dreams, especially the HUGE tasks, I see it as extra practice

Looks really good Kev' Those macro photos, which are larger than the real ship tend to make everything apparent, but they aren't since we don't have eye's like an eagle. I think she's looking top notch. Just think of all the hammocks to make. BTW, how many hammocks are there total?

hello Tony Nice idea on the deck gluing jig, I've seen several methods of gluing the deck and its a hard bugger to glue, position and also get it to flex into the compound curvature. I attempted wetting and pre-shaping my deck but found it only came out twisted as that compound curve on plywood just didn't take the shape. One of my favorite parts of the Swift is her deck curvature and sheer-line. Nice work! Glad you clamped the middle and was able to get it down in the middle. Looks like you nailed it. ...and without nails (I don't care for nailing either as I hate the holes after removal.) also I noticed the picture got WAY smaller, even when clicked on, did you re-size? I like to click and see the bigger versions as one can see more detail. Oh, also on gluing, have you considered a syringe for application. I started with a brush and found a 10ml syringe MUCH more handy. You can control both where and how much a lot easier with a syringe and blunted 18 gauge needle.

Beautiful detail work Joe. I love the little Midwest kits for this reason. They make a nice kit and with a small (pun) amount of work they can really become detailed. I really like the notching of the seats and the brass nailing. That small detail stuff really makes so much of a difference. The chocks and brass pins make the kit version look very sad in comparison. That small stuff is a tough job as holding the piece is so difficult, but its worth the frustration, and like you I find that type of detailing frustration relaxing, especially when you see the impact it makes. The handmade chocks were nice, but brass pinned makes them great. Fine work my friend, and congrat's on the impending 45th, that's quite an accomplishment to be proud of these days.

Very Nice.

Check with Popeye. He uses a decal kit that if I'm remembering right he prints on his ink jet. That way you choose the font and size.

One of the reasons I stay away from CA and planking is that it can fill the pores/grain of the wood and then show when oiling where the oil won't absorb properly. Staining will make this more evident where the stain won't take. Did you try eraser? I've gotten some pencil off that way, but usually I scrape or sand. Single edge blade razors make a cheap card scraper, if you don't have one. I got a set of the small 1" x 2" scrapers from Lee Valley and it is one of my most used tools. Was that an issue with the thread, If one sanded too deep, would the thread fuzz or fray? Being incased in harden PVA I would think not, but I see strange compatibility issues on builds. I remember someone using paper blacked with sharpie as hull caulk. It was GORGEOUS, especially with the 1000's of treenails. Then when the finish was applied the sharpie soaked into the wood. Of course that's not as bad as the story I heard about a builder finishing the last line of rigging throwing the excess off the table to cut and having the Admiral vacuuming and the rope getting picked up by the spinning brush and dragging the build to its death of splinters. You hear and see all kinds of things in build logs and its how we learn by sharing experiences. Heck if you dress out the lower deck, even with doors opened, little will be seen. but a few barrels or other deck furnishings and it will never been seen. As I built the older kit I didn't even both to make the doors open on the one deckhouse I left. I just love when someone falls in love with this hobby, as I know exactly what it feels like and it hasn't stopped for me in 2 years. The wealth of information and variations of vessels gives one a lifetime of Fun. the learning curve is long, but not too steep if one puts themselves into building and learning. Plus the MSW community just plain makes it FUN.

All I can say Matti is this... if you sunk yours to the bottom of the ocean for aging purposes and turned the lights down low, one would think they were the same. Gil in his Vicky log has pictures like this of is it real or model and so many times you can't tell. Your problem is - the not being at the bottom for centuries aging effect. Now that would be a model, built as she sits today. At every step you prove, there is more to Matti then just a great paint detailer. BTW that 2nd to last picture of the starboard bow shot is AMAZING. the last one could have used showing a bit more side. As she grows your having to step back in order to get her all in one shot You must be very proud, you deserve it....and to think, a first wooden build

I think it is very hard to see a curved surface object in a photo with out optical illusions. I've seen many thing that appear wonky in a photo, but isn't to the natural eye. I think your symmetry is Fantastic, Brian. Especially when you look at it closely from all the angles. as an aside: in some thread, I can't remembers who's, they used the shiny black plastic from a CD case a made windows. Since it looks black from the outside it looked natural and was probably easier to keep clean. That's a part of the hobby never discuss, the cleanup after every new addition. Just thinking out loud, I really haven't followed AVS threads closely, but is there a trim around the windows. I can see a thin scraped window molding really setting off the stern. The scraped molding I made for the DSotM was a fun experience and really detailed the sides. There's a thread on making razor blade scrapers somewhere, you may have already found it.

Isn't it amazing what a GOOD oiling with do. It looks GREAT. Not being critical, but rather curious.... what did you use to fill/blacken the treenails? I'm curious for 2 reasons, it really matches the thread and makes the nailing noticeable, but also I notice what appears to be staining around that area, as if it got into the wood graining. It also looks like it could be from the thread, did the thread bleed any color? Compatibility issues are always a worry. Personally I like different and real and if she's going to be built historically she was a WORK boat, which would have bumps and bruises. The thread is EXTREMELY striking and looks GREAT. So nothing was added except black thread and PVA. WOW. simple and striking. I'm typically a tung oil fan, but love the POP the Danish gave the wood. ...and, I'd strike the "not very good" from your last comment and exchange modest

Hello Tony In my older swift kit, and yes there are at least 2 major Swift designs, the bow and stern blocks were basswood. I used them for something else and swapped to balsa. Its much softer and a heck of a lot easier to fair (shape). They are basically filler that aid in shaping as you plank and also give added gluing surface area. I also added a block up next to the keel between bulkheads 1 and 2 for an added gluing spot for the garboard plank (the one closest to the keel) as it should end between bulkheads. Of course this is covered in my log, which is probably way, way down on the list. There are several other good Swift build log on MSW also, but hard to find using search as the word has lots of hits, If you use the expanded search function and limit "swift" to titles alone, you can find them all. Its that little gear looking thingy to the right of the search box. I can never pass up a swift build as it's just such a great kit build and every person has their own interpretation of how to build her... from making her look like the box to... um....er.... well some mad individuals do some pretty crazy stuff . The Swift kit has some GREAT bones for bashing and an excellent topic for new or more experienced builders. A lot of builders have cut their teeth on the Swift kit. For me she's become a personal experience. She was my second build started and I've built 2 others while building her as my mad version is something VERY different then AL ever intended....and I'm just starting the rigging. I'll be following along, its always good to see a new swift appear.

For an impulse buy on ebay, I have to say that my Swift kit or what it has become has been one of the greatest experiences of my life. The AL Swift kit has so many issues that it just begs to be bashed and I've gained a whole new respect for the Pilot boats and the jobs they performed in the nautical world. Congrats on saving a poor unwanted Swift. I can never resist watching a Swift build, its like chocolate

I keep all receipts in a binder. ...But refuse to do the math. Wait until you've been at this 2 years. I'm saving that addition for if I ever want to commit suicide by heart attack. or Admiral flogging...... Seriously though, Try to think of it this way. Within a persons typical budget, they skip 2 important things - Savings and Hobby's. I have not paid a cable TV bill in 9 years, I hobby rather then melt my brain with consumer advertised TV. Add that total up, but most think of TV as important as the water or electric bill. I DON'T. Never underestimate the ability for a human to justify just about anything. Ultimately, if it helps you make it through life with more smiles on your face, and its not taking food out of you or your families mouths, I say do it and don't look back. Nearly every tool is an investment that will last many builds. Which equals hours of smiles, and frustration, which in my opinion is a character builder. Nothing good in life is free. Try this, take your hourly wage and multiply it by the hours you put in Carmen, some say time is money. Now look at that total. No matter how you look at it many of the things we love are expensive, as a disabled homebound person, this hobby saved my life and sanity. To me that's priceless, Tammy agrees.

No Cap'n'Bob he won't. Maybe the rig, but not the wagon... My first job was in a packing house and behind it was a huge field grown up in Tall grass. I'm six foot and it was at least 2 feet over my head. Anyway, one day a BULL got out and he was not a happy camper. A new guy didn't latch the gate (and no it wasn't me thankfully). He ran for that grassed field. We followed with the 22 rifle (remember I was 16 and stupid). Needless to say luckily he couldn't see us either and we got out of there FAST, after he charged by us, we got the tractor. There's nothing like a Raging Angry Bull to get you killed, when there is no grass blocking the way. Thank goodness for the density of its cover. Seeing that scout reminds me of that day LONG ago and YES its that thick and that tall. Crossing it in a wagon had to be a nightmare. I think we tend to imagine what we have seen in the movies, but the first settlers struggled many miles of the journey, even on flat ground, for precisely this reason. Some one get a bush-hog and clear that path

WOW. I can't stress enough the importance of hyper linking your build logs in your sig's. This is how I found this one, from a post Brian made in another log. It seems using email notice has limited my time looking at the build log pages and simply causing me to miss the new ones. I wonder how many others this happens to..... HOLY COW. With my addled brain I completely missed your AVS's start. 6 Pages NICE! Oh BTW, did I say...WOW. I remember a Brian from a few months ago plowing through a Carmen build like a bull in a china shop. What a change. Your still the ADHD/OCD speed builder of the Carmen era, but you've came miles since her build. Did I say WOW, just wanted to get that in...... Oh, BTW, now do you see the difference between Chucks blocks and the MS ones. Night and day, just like the rope. If your talking rope walk, its over... you've committed to this hobby, but then that really become obvious as I read on..... I started this log 4 or 5 hours ago and thought at each instance, hum...that's innovative... like the cross sawing of the bulkhead braces, isn't it funny how we forget that glue takes up space, especially when we push tolerances insanely close to ZERO. But then your bulkhead shimming, BRAVO on exactly nailing it. not to mention the deck, that work was so elegantly undertaken. I knew at that point someone had been doing their MSW homework. Then comes the transom windows. All I can say is the transom windows is one part of a ship that annoys the heck out of me if not done nicely. Your changes are exactly what I'd have done. On the last picture with windows, the gaps (which create dark spots) trick the eye, its an illusion. I clicked that last stern shot full screen and used the old carpenters trick "the eye and a straight edge". Leaning back and using a 1 foot steel rule I used the straight edge to focus only on the window edges, both top and bottom and they are perfectly symmetrical. Your catching the over-fairing over the port stern side, which was causing the problem, shows a keen eye for detail, I wondered about if that might be it, as if you notice the starboard frame 3 in the picture, it still has char darkening. Indicating less fairing. Again, a pushing tolerance to zero issue. NICE CATCH. That is some fine building, my friend. Its good to see how quickly your grasping the intricacies and embracing the importance of framing and fairing. I don't feel a builder can ever move past a certain level (the 1st, of many) until this one important fact is grasped. You've also crossed the second important milestone, (level 2, so to speak) you've lost the fear of deconstructing hours of work to make something right for YOU. The doing it for YOU is another milestone (level 3), but you had that on Carmen, your goal always was to build her fast and from the box. Isn't it fun how this hobby evolves a life of its own. and level 3 sometime comes before level 1, as it should but so often doesn't. You've got a great future in building, I see scratch builder written all over this bashing. Won't it be great to look at the Carmen next to AVS and see how much you have learned. It is that nature of this hobby that drew me in so deeply and the great voices of our MSW community that made it all so much more interesting. Its some times easy to get almost as involved in other builders work as in our own. After all, it is a great research endeavor and part of the 'homework'. I'll also comment on your photography and attention to detailing build procedure. Its a lot of work, but worth it IMHO. It definitely makes your log much more useful then just completed pictures. GREAT JOB! I think I remember saying WOW, but if I did not WOW this is going to be a great adventure to watch unfold.

Here are some early fuzzy pictures of the process on my older kit. The focus is really BAD, but you can see that the front corner of the 1st bulkhead just touches the outer edge of the false center keel. I never put these in the log due to the quality of the photos, but hopefully you can see that my build had exactly the same issue. It HAS to, as the bulkhead bottom is square and the stem is curved as keel transitions into stem. There has to be a wedged area or the bulkhead front corner would have stuck out if the back end was even with the keel. This could have happened if the bulkhead was pushed deeper into the slot, but then it would not be flush at deck level. What your seeing it a must unless AL makes a beveled 1st bulkhead, which they don't as they expect you to do all the shaping. and you can see how much was removed with beveling and fairing. Also notice the keel (and surrounding balsa) is sanded back rather then shimmed out and there is still a small gap. Like I said it will only change the shape of the bow by widening it a bit, but as I had a lot of narrowing to get the thickness for the keel attachment at the stern, so goes the bow. Remember just like at the stern the bow you don't want over-wide, or wider then the keel contact and you still have planking to thicken it even more. I'm not advocating either method as correct, just showing you examples of my build. Like I said, it wont matter in the long run. Actually the bulkhead becomes meaningless when the balsa is added other then a guide to where the sanding and shaping should be stopped. The balsa performs the task of a glue contact patch for the planking, that is much larger then just 2 points at 1st bulkhead and stem. The balsa in front of 1st bulkhead also gives a place for the plank to lay and maintain a smooth curvature through the bow planking. In my longboat build, there was no balsa and getting each plank to have the right curvature without the balsa to force it down onto made the task more daunting, as some wanted to dip inward. On the long boat I had to remove planking due to symmetry that the balsa would have helped maintain. The bulkhead in the kit is designed to be a glue point and you changed that to the balsa, so whether you add a shim or not the glue will not be stopped from holding by that wedged shaped gap. You will just glue the plank over it to the balsa. Try holding the stem up to the bow and imagine planking added and see if it is over wide. I believe that is probably the best test as the newer kit seems to differ a bit. It looks to have a thicker center keel, probably due to so much of its and bulkheads removal the make the open lower deck areas.