Yacht Mary by Mike Dowling - Mamoli

[Mike Dowling]

So what was the answer Popeye ?

[popeye the sailor]

I tried to send you one...I got a flag saying you weren't accepting messages.  the garboard will lay without tapering...test fit the planks before you cement them on.  

    chances are,  you may need to taper to some degree.   what will happen if you continue downward,  is that you'll find that you'll need to taper too much.  the rule of thumb is to taper up to half of the plank's width.   what's going to happen coming up from the garboard, is that the planks will ride diagonal along the bow stem,  until it meets the other planking....then it will terminate along the plank line.  you should be able to keep the bow's shape reasonably well.   soaking and bending the planks will help with this

[AVBiker]

Hi Mike,

Planking scheme in the area bow at yachts from Holland see pictures:

 

Greetings Hubert

Edited February 1, 2018 by AVBiker

[Mike Dowling]

Thanks Popeye and Hubert, the pictures are really helpful, thank you.

 

[popeye the sailor]

did you notice the slight Joggling on the port side of the bow?

[Mike Dowling]

Just what I thought Brian !!

 

Can't say I did Popeye and , to be quite honest I still can't see it !

[popeye the sailor]

in the hull pictures that avbiker posted...no big deal.  just thought it was interesting.

[Mike Dowling]

Very observant of you !!!! Especially as it was only on one side.

[Cathead]

Based on my experience, Popeye's advice is good so far. The type of wood can matter, too. Something relatively soft like basswood will take a lateral bend a lot easier than some of the harder woods, which won't and thus exacerbates the clinkering. I'm not quite sure what you mean by your last question? You're certainly going to want to taper as you go forward for any plank.

 

You might try taking a really flexible piece of very thin wood, or even plastic, and using that to "practice" laying out the remaining planks so you get a sense of how the planks will want to lie naturally. You can even mark what that test strip "wants" to do for future reference.

[Mike Dowling]

Hey Eric, great to have you along for the ride. As you know I need all the help I can get with planking especially on this small bendy beast. I have started from the garboard up and am indeed tapering the planks. The supplied wood is complete rubbish but I am trying to use it. I received some lovely lime strip today which I can use now before my language gets too bad !!

 

The second planking is walnut strip which I have never tried before. I have always had sapele before.  Any tips in advance before I get to it ? (I did get some new walnut in case!!)

[popeye the sailor]

looking at the upper portion of the planking ,  they came down further.  you couldn't do it Mike,  because of the clinker effect.   looking at the hull, there isn't much tapering there,  since they are butting up to the existing planking.  they joggled it on that last plank,  because the other plank interfered with the run.....note that they tapered that particular one.  I'm sure it's the same on the starboard side.......we can't see it.  I'm sure they did something different at the stern......likely stealers

[Cathead]

On that one picture, where that one plank is notched into the overlying strake even though the others aren't, I'd guess it's because of the sharp point at the end of that plank. All the others can have a pretty broad joint butting up against the overlying strake at a mostly perpendicular angle, but the curvature of the hull means that last one suddenly comes to a point. So rather than wedge a thin point into the full joint between all the planks, they notched it into the overlying strake, such that the plank's end doesn't come to a complete sharp point, making the joint stronger.

 

Those are neat photos, they definitely show that some real builders did stuff that model-building resources say you should never do!

[Gregory]

At the risk of hijacking your thread ( please let me know and I will delete ), I am working on a Mary, and in the rigging stage.  I didn't document

well enough for a log, but I hope to present in the Gallery soon.

 

I was using veneer for the 2nd planking and did some spiling at the bow.  I thought I achieved a pretty good effect for my first attempt at this,

though it is a little rough in spots.

                                                                                       

 

 

It takes some wide stock to do this.  Up to three times the width of the plank, not to mention the waste from practicing.

 

[Mike Dowling]

I think that's a lovely job Gregory especially for this 'round' boat. I hope mine turns out half as well.

[Mike Dowling]

Well folks, the hull is finally covered ! It is not a pretty sight but it is covered !!

For discussion - should I sand first and then fill or fill first and then sand ? Usually I apply some sanding sealer before filling to avoid the wood swelling with water based filler.

 

Also any tips or points to watch on the second planking with walnut?  It is not a wood I have used before for planking and I know it can be rather brittle.

 

[Seventynet]

Hi Mike,

 

Nice build! If if you want plank lines at the bow like Gregory’s you will have to do a fair amount of spiling and will therefore need sheet stock of walnut. Spiling is easy once you come up with a method of transferring the curves to the wood. I have no problems planking, bending and spiling with walnut. In fact it was my favourite wood to work with until boxwood spoiled me. 🙂 

[Cathead]

Personally, I'd sand a bit first to reduce the amount of filler you need to apply and then remove; no need to fill in uneven areas unnecessarily. But I'm just an amateur.

 

I've only used walnut once and agree that it's brittle. It really likes to splinter away from the curve if you force it.

[zappto]

Very nice start! I  usually do sanding first, later place wood filler where it is needed.

[Thunder]

I know it is harping back to those photographs of the real build but I have never seen a hull planked like that and wondered if anyone new more about it. Was it a practice only in certain countries and then with only certain types or sizes of vessel? What was the frames like, those plank ends would have no fixing unless the frames were pretty much side by side.

 

If it is only certain vessels it would make modelling them more accurate and it would be nice to know so that it wasn't used as the 'correct' method for all vessels.

 

As for your sanding, I would take a look at how thin the planks would be after sanding to determine if you need the filler to provide strength. You wouldn't want to sand through one. It may be a good idea to get some inside the hull to strengthen them as well. Especially at the bows as if doesn't appear that there was a sold block for you to have landed the planks against.

 

[Mike Dowling]

No solid blocks at all on this beasty Thunder ! and it would seem from Brian's photos that these vessels were indeed planked strangely. With such a bulbous front I don't think there would be much choice.

 

Guys, I took on board all the advice - thank you. I gave the hull a rough sanding and then sealed it with sanding sealer to stop it being too absorbent. I then applied filler in my normal way which is to spread fine surface, very wet filler with a pallet knife. That way the filler goes on pretty smoothly and without leaving too much excess. Leave to dry and then sand the whole thing again with a less aggressive paper.

 

This is how she looked after that. A somewhat prettier site !!

 

My next job is to remove the excess planking that I deliberately put on down the level of the bulwarks and make her look more boat like.

[popeye the sailor]

looking good Mike!   catching up.......I do the same as everyone else.  no worries about the moisture of the filler fiddling with the hull,  I never seal before doing the filler    the bow came out super       best suggestion I can give would be scale planking......short strips.  keep the butt joints staggered and evenly spaced,  like every other one,  or two.  tapering will be your friend here.....create a line and stick with it.....if your line goes off for any reason,  you can always fill in with a stealer or joggle in the filler piece.   there is always the banding method too,  if you think it will benefit you better.  I have a little booklet about planking that I wanted to send you.  it's kinda old and likely out of print,  but it covers it all {planking is planking,  it hasn't changed that much}.

[Mike Dowling]

When you say 'create a line and stick with it' what do you mean ? I don't understand. I don't think the bow looks too bad but I am seriously concerned about how it will come out with the thinner second layer.

 

 

[Mike Dowling]

A situation report !

I have done the shaping around the bulwarks and I have done the second planking from the first wale upwards. The second wale goes 8mm (2 strake width) below the first and it is wider (5mm x 1.5). I have curved the bow by soaking and bending as before but it really doesn't like the inevitable lateral bend that has to happen to keep it parallel to the first wale. I think I may have to put it on wet and let it dry in position.

I am not sure whether to force two strakes on below to top wale in order to get the width for the second right or to taper them. Below the second wale the tapering has to be quite severe - I just hope I don't get much clinkering. It is tricky because it is only a wee little boat but very bendy and the strakes are  3x1mm.

 

Any more advice would be welcomed before I start going down !!

 

 

[bdgiantman2]

I have heard it reported that if you follow the hull contours  with the outside layer of planking that it goes on a lot more smoothly. Looks like you have at least somewhat attempted that putting on the first of the wales. Keep up the good modeling efforts.

 

Brian

[popeye the sailor]

as far as creating the line goes,  you already started....already past that stage      looks good though    if your finding the need to taper the planking,  the second wale will not look even at the bow.  what you could do,  is if you have a thinner strip,  you could continue with the planking and glue it on top.  this way both wale strips will be the same height over the planking.  if the woods are not the same, you could paint them flat black,  or a darker wood brown.

[Mike Dowling]

Thanks guys, unfortunately I don't have thinner wood I don't think so I guess - press on and hope !!!

[Thunder]

I have this on the shelf to do and never realised it was such a pig to plank. I have seen it in three museums built and never noticed then. Unfortunately you cannot always tell till your into the build. It would be interesting to see if they changed the planks. It also features in the book 'ship modelling from stem to stern' but the build is not covered. I don't know about in Sutherland but I find it difficult to get decent replacement planking, what you get from the online model shops is exactly the same as in the kits.

 

Trouble is, unless I find evidence that she was planked like the vessel in this thread, I will plank it in the usual style. Well the second planking layer at least. It looks like I will be getting some new planking so that it is narrower and be doing a lot of tapering with additional stealers at the bow.

 

I will be watching this thread with interest but I must apologise if that is to learn from your difficulties and mistakes.

[Mike Dowling]

Those pictures Thunder are really useful - thank you. The only pictures of the full boat are one on the plans. Otherwise the picture on the box is all I have to go on until now.You are more than welcome along for the ride. I just hope I can be helpful to you as well.

 

Don't be put off by the planking. If I can make a reasonable job of it then anyone can. Planking is not my best point ! Having said that my objective on the first layer was to experiment a bit and at worst simply cover the hull. It actually came out better than I expected and now with a smooth 'whole'surface the second layer is proving quite successful I think.

 

I did buy a whole batch of new walnut for the second layer because the stuff with the kit was so old it was very brittle. I think it was a good idea although the quality of that which I bought is nothing special.

 

I have managed to get two whole strakes on and the second wale. It did need soaking and CA to hold it on but it didn't fit too badly. I now have two more strakes underneath that. I want to get at least two more on before working from the bottom up because I want to try and get to the waterline first. Then, if it is a bit patchy below it won't show especially if I paint it.

 

I did read somewhere that the bottoms of these were copper plated. I wonder if that is right and if so should I paint it copper rather than white ? There is no way I am actually going to try to plate it.

 

 

 

 

[Thunder]

Your planking does look to be coming along well.

 

I think the Royal Navy didn't even start experimenting with the copper plating for about another 90 years so if you need to cover the bottom part of the hull it would of been 'white stuff'. I don't think any other country did it first and in northern waters it was not required as the Toredo worm cannot live there (yet). Hence the Wasa surviving.

 

The model shown is in the historic dockyard museum at Portsmouth. One of the others I saw was in a museum at Anglesey but I cannot find any photographs. The only thing for me that lets it down is the gun port lids as they should be flush when closed.

[Gregory]

Mike,

 

Here is a Mary Build that I found very inspirational.  

http://modelshipbuilder.la.coocan.jp/yacht-m2.htm

 

Make sure you click on " Making " just a little ways down from the top of the page..