HMS Pegasus by The_bitter_end - Amati/Victory Models - 1:64 scale

[ASAT]

I think he’s asking if that counter piece should be proud of the gunport ply pieces? It should not be, the planking should end at the ply pieces so that counter piece should be inside or at least flush with the bulwark pieces. But it needs also to be curved like Spy and VulcanB said....Unless I read you wrong then belay my last..... 🙂

Edited November 8, 2019 by ASAT

[vulcanbomber]

40 minutes ago, ASAT said:

I think he’s asking if that counter piece should be proud of the gunport ply pieces? 

Yes, you are correct, Bitter End is asking about the counter piece, it does need to be made flush with the bulwarks/ gunport ply piece so the hull planking covers over the ends of it.

 

The glue I use for the planking is good old white wood glue with flat head drawing pins to hold in place while the glue sets.

Edited November 8, 2019 by vulcanbomber

[The Bitter End]

Hi everyone.

 

I would just like to apologise for my absence and general lack of enthusiasm. I am going through the end of a 6 year relationship and it has really made me struggle to be excited about my build.

 

BUT! I will be back in full force as soon as I am ready.

 

I hope you are all having great success in whatever you are currently pursuing

 

The bitter end!

[vulcanbomber]

Hi Bitter End,

 

Sorry to hear about your relationship and I can sympathise with your lack of enthusiasm for your build, most of us have been there at some point or another.

 

When you are ready to return, we will all be here for you. You will always be part of the MSW family!

 

Caroline

[Ronald-V]

Take care Bitter End...life happens, so take your time to go through the process

[The Lazy Saint]

Hi bitter end,

Sorry to hear your news, and will hope for brighter days ahead. 

Best wishes as always, 

The Lazy Saint. 

[The Bitter End]

Hello All!

 

To those of you who I have not sent personal messages to I would like to apologise for my long absence and sudden disappearance.

 

I did not spend my time in idleness, I did manage to get my second planking done.

 

I would like to reply to all the messages that I did not attend to when I should have and then get on to what should be quite a lengthy post about my progress(brace yourselves).

 

Thank you all for your input, support and feedback. I really hope you will all stick around for the rest of the show.

 

Cheers!

 

Haiko

[vulcanbomber]

Great to see you back Haiko. Look forward to seeing your progress.

[The Bitter End]

@SpyGlass

 

Hi Spy!

 

I made great use of your advice as always and curved the stern counter as you suggested. I steamed it well and then secured it to a pipe with elastic bands. I should probably have curved it slightly more but that ship has sailed.

I also followed that advice of yours and steered completely clear of CA and stuck to PVA glue. I have completed the planking of the hull and trimmed the stern counter but i have not planked the counter yet. How much of a problem is this?

 

The Bitter End

[The Bitter End]

@vulcanbomber

 

Hi Vulcan! Its great to be back!

 

I made the decision to follow in your footsteps and plank the hull in the "correct" Length planks(114.5mm). I really enjoyed the planking process and I hope you can tell me if I did it correctly(please feel free to tell me if I made mistakes, This is a learning process for me).

 

I took note of what you said about the height of the wale and the need to accommodate the window trim. I am still a bit worried that I may have made a mistake by not planking the stern counter first. Please take a look at my photos if you have a chance to see how I should proceed at this point.

 

The Bitter End

 

 

 

 

[The Bitter End]

@ASAT

 

Hi ASAT

 

Thanks for your comment, I did as you said and trimmed the stern counter before planking the hull. It does seem like that was definitely the right choice.

 

Cheers

 

TBE

[The Bitter End]

Finally...Day 39-103(that's 65 days to do the second hull planking, for those who are planning a build it is worth noting that I applied very little time to my build during this period, I was in the peak of my farming season and was going through the end of a relationship)

 

So here goes. After trimming the stern counter so that it was flush with the bulwarks I marked the hull with vertical lines spaced at 28.5mm to plan my layout for the 4 butt planking system I chose to use(there is a post in this build log by vulcan bomber explaining this layout.). I found that it was easiest to draw a single vertical line between gun ports 5 and 6 and then set a compass to 28.5 mm and use this to mark the spacing at various points along the location for the next line before connecting the dots to create the next complete pencil line. The photo below shows the completed line layout. It is also worth giving a quick warning here about the bulwarks, I failed to protect these from breaking while working on the model when upside down. You can see the break below. Something as simple as resting the model on a piece of foam would have solved this problem.

 

The next step was to lay down the wale line. I did this using 3 strips of the darkest wood in the planking pack. I did not cut these down to 118mm lengths as I wanted a nice solid sweeping curved line to plank from and I did not trust myself to create this using short pieces. These were steamed and pinned to the hull with drawing pins. I can suggest that one uses a flat blade to scrape away all excess glue from the edges of the plank to prevent the dry glue from getting in the way of the next strake(i hope thats the right word).

 

I laid down 3 full planks for the bulwark line and then three additional strakes of plunks in the 4 butt pattern without any tapering of the planks. These planks and all others were chamfered slightly at the point where the plank meets the bow to allow as tight a fit as possible. Once these were in place I simply held each of the next planks in place and tapered them in such a way as to allow them to lie as naturally as possible and then pinned them to the hull after glueing. I approached this very slowly and used probably more pins than required but I found this gave pleasing results. As you can see I also opted for lighter planks for the lower planking

 

This was continued from the bulwarks to the keel while tapering planks in the same way as described for first planking, I was left with a tiny filler plank but I was fairly happy with the final spacing.

Once this was done I move up to the gunnals and planked them using the same 4 butt pattern, letting each plank overhang the gun ports slightly seemed to be the best way to get a need finish. When these were all glued and dried I simply trimmed them back and filed the edges.

Once all this had been done I trimmed the stern keel pieces and tops of the gunnals and prepared for the arduous task of filling gaps and sanding the hull.

 

I will end this post here as I fear it may be becoming too large... next post...filling, sanding and questions.

 

The Bitter End

 

[The Bitter End]

continued from above.

 

I now sanded down the hull(with 100 grit sandpaper) and carefully saved all the sawdust. Once the hull was rough sanded I carefully applied a mixture of this sawdust and PVA glue to all the gaps and blemishes. I found that it was easiest to do this with a finger and then use a damp sponge to wipe off any excess glue(this is important as it is very hard to sand this mixture once it is dry). For bigger gaps I applied multiple layers of sawdust/glue filler as the mixture contracts when it dries. This was followed by a vigorous sanding with 300/600/1000/1200 grit paper producing the following results.

 

Now its question time for those that wish to help. If there are any more photos needed please let me know.

 

1. WHAT NEXT!? Do I varnish the hull or is there some other step I should be taking and in general what is the next logical step to take.

2. Is there some way to get better results

3. Have I done anything wrong(this is a learning process so I would appreciate criticism)

4. Should I have planked the stern counter.

5. Whats the deal with coppering? It seems to me that it would be bordering on a sin to copper over this hull.

 

It is worth saying that I really enjoyed this process!

 

Thanks in advance

 

CHeers

 

The bitter end

[The Lazy Saint]

Hi Haiko,

What great progress you have made, it is very impressive indeed. I don't feel in a position to advise you and, infact, you will get far better advise from experienced members of the group. However, l will say l agree with you......

22 minutes ago, The_bitter_end said:

5. Whats the deal with coppering? It seems to me that it would be bordering on a sin to copper over this hull

It would be bordering on a sin to copper over your hull, l have to (or white paint) l lack the skill to produce a hull worthy of varnish, but yours looks wonderful. Keep up the great work. 

Best wishes as always, 

The Lazy Saint. 

[vulcanbomber]

That is a superb job on the second planking. It will look amazing with the beauty of the planks brought out when varnished. I love the colour differences in the planks and think it adds extra interest.

 

Regarding coppering, I was initially undecided about coppering the hull on my Pegasus, but in the end decided to, just for the experience as the hull on my San Francisco was uncoppered. I didn't like the coppering experience and found it fiddly, though I am pleased with the results, but I won't copper any more hulls, I like to see the planking instead, especially with the scale lengths.

 

Planking the stern counter - it's down to personal preference. I didn't plank mine as I actually liked the piece of walnut that was used.

 

Like Spy suggested, a light varnish, just to seal the hull.

 

The next thing I did was to remove the bulkhead piece (if not done already) and plank the insides. You will find it easier to paint the lowest plank red before installing them, that way you won't get paint on your deck. Some builders (myself included) made bulkhead walls for the bow and stern at this point too. They make a nice little scratch build project - but again, just personal preference.

 

The wales can be fitted now too. Make sure to leave the correct gap for the quarter badges at the stern.

 

Then I made some of the deck fittings for the lower deck, but didn't glue them in until much later in the build. Sometimes making the little things is a nice reprieve from the big stuff!

 

After that I made the gunport linings - again personal preference - and made the gunport lids.

 

Then I painted the upper parts of the bulwarks for the frieze and the wood parts for it and glued at them all on.

 

I think there is a lot there to get to grips with!!!

 

Great progress.

Edited January 12, 2020 by vulcanbomber

[The Bitter End]

@vulcanbomber

 

Good Morning Vulcan!

 

Thanks for this great response. I will follow your advice and steps. I am still on the fence about the coppering thing predominantly because this is a learning exercise. If I were to varnish the hull now could I still copper over that if I ultimately decided to? I also assume that I need to finish the wale before varnishing or the wood glue wont stick too well?

 

I opted to plank the counter as mine is just ply wood,  I hope it turns out ok.

 

Cheers

 

Haiko

[The Bitter End]

@The Lazy Saint

 

I am leaning more and more in that direction lazy. Watch this space for my final indecisive decision.

[The Bitter End]

@SpyGlass

 

Hi there Spy

 

Soooo i have zero lip on the bottom of the counter(I realised that this was not my finest moment) and my stern counter is made of plywood and not walnut. Do you have any suggestions? plank it and just taper things? If you look at the photo of the stern in my last post you can see how things look there.

 

As a matter of interest do you know if hulls were ever actually planked in the way in which I did it? I somehow remember reading that it seemed wrong but was actually done this way sometimes? I must say it didnt feel very historically accurate when I did it but it was the easier option for me.

[Blue Ensign]

Hi bitter,

 

You have made a very nice job of completing the hull,  but the run of planking up to the bow is not as you say historically correct in relation to Pegasus in particular, and British ships of the era in general.

This is not going to really detract from the beauty of your hull as a model, but if it bothers you, coppering would cover most of the lack of tapering of the bow planking.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

[Jolley Roger]

Welcome back!

From what I can see, you have done an excellent job of the hull planking.

It is very difficult to plank a hull the 'correct' way with only kit supplied planking strips - if you are interested there is a tutorial at http://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/Framing_and_Planking/plankingprojectbeginners.pdf (might be a bit late now!)

Coppering - have you considered doing only one side, then you get the best of both worlds. 

[The Bitter End]

Hello Folks!

 

Its certainly been a hot minute since I last replied. I have not abandoned my pegasus project but the demands of being a farmer meant that I didn's seem to get around to posting. I thought It was high time to give you all a bit of an update on my progress. Below are a number of photos of where I am on my build. This is essentially an exercise in copying Blue Ensign and I am eternally grateful to him for his attention to detail and historical accuracy. I has been a pleasure so far.

 

In a couple of places I have deviated from his instructions, often due to the shortage of materials available for the suggested modifications but I like to think  I have done a reasonable job for a first build.

 

I am waiting for a number of things to continue my build which the more keen eyed of you may notice.

Correct size anchors

Correct size dead eyes

Stern Lantern

Pegasus figurehead(mine is broken)

Swivel guns

Wood for masts

A lathe which I ordered online

A converted cad drawing so that I can begin scratch building a pinnace.

 

Never the less! here are some photos of my progress below. It might be worth mentioning that I have not put a lick of varnish or oil or anything on this model so far. does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed with this? Should I be applying something and if so what?

 

Any and ALLL feedback would be appreciated. I would like to improve where possible.

 

If anyone has any questions about how I approached this project please let me know. I would be happy to help, I have made my fair share of mistakes and I think I might be able to offer fairly meaningful advice in places.

 

 

 

[Blue Ensign]

Some nice detailing there bitter, glad my build was of use to you.

 

One thing that catches my eye are the chainplates to the Main Channels; they seem to have a reverse angle rather than being angled slightly forward or vertical.

I recall that I had to modify the kit etched items to fit on my build.

 

At your late stage in the build I’m not sure how to proceed with any hand applied protective coating with all the fittings in place, makes it tricky to get an even application. Perhaps you can use light coats of a spray matt varnish overall, having removed all dust.

I think this is an approach taken by some modellers, but one I've not tried myself.

 

With decks I would scrape them (not sand) to a smooth finish and apply a coat of flat matt water-based varnish such as supplied by Admiralty paints. This would be done after fitting the coamings of the hatchways but before any of the other fittings were installed.

For the hull planking I would use a wipe-on-poly, but this would also be done before the addition of fittings.

 

B.E.

[Ronald-V]

Looks great man! you've come a long way.

 

You did not use the golden side decorations? I'm doubting myself to to use them. I'm not sure if i like the look of them.

[The Bitter End]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:15 AM, mugje said:

Looks great man! you've come a long way.

 

You did not use the golden side decorations? I'm doubting myself to to use them. I'm not sure if i like the look of them.

Hey Mugje

 

Thanks for the compliment, the support is always appreciated.

 

As for the decoration I thought about it long and hard and considered the following factors before deciding not to do this.

 

1. I didn't feel that it was that much of a realistic representation of what this embellishment would have looked like in real life.

2. Apparently the vessel would only have had these decorations immediately after its commissioning but for the bulk of its career they would not be in place.

3. I was concerned that the provided components may not actually fit that well into the allocated area due to slight variations between the plan and my model.

4. I was told that CA(super glue) can deteriorate over time and I anticipated these parts starting to fall off in the future and ruining the model)

5. I kind of like the somewhat more traditional feel of the model without the decoration on it. This is just a personal choice but she feels a bit more "serious" without it.

 

All this being said, I really did struggle with the choice but ultimately decided that is what would be best. I loved how they looked on the Pegasus built by B.E. but I'm satisfied with the choice on my version.

 

One other thing worth mentioning is that I saw a model where they replaced the blue paint with black and it created a much more aggressive and sinister feel which I really liked but saw too late to make the change. It might be worth considering.

 

I hope you are well otherwise and that this helped with your decision.

 

Cheers, TBE

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Bitter End]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:13 AM, Blue Ensign said:

Some nice detailing there bitter, glad my build was of use to you.

 

One thing that catches my eye are the chainplates to the Main Channels; they seem to have a reverse angle rather than being angled slightly forward or vertical.

I recall that I had to modify the kit etched items to fit on my build.

 

At your late stage in the build I’m not sure how to proceed with any hand applied protective coating with all the fittings in place, makes it tricky to get an even application. Perhaps you can use light coats of a spray matt varnish overall, having removed all dust.

I think this is an approach taken by some modellers, but one I've not tried myself.

 

With decks I would scrape them (not sand) to a smooth finish and apply a coat of flat matt water-based varnish such as supplied by Admiralty paints. This would be done after fitting the coamings of the hatchways but before any of the other fittings were installed.

For the hull planking I would use a wipe-on-poly, but this would also be done before the addition of fittings.

 

B.E.

Good Morning Mr. Ensign

 

Thank you so much for your input and again thank you for your amazing build log. I could not have done this build without it and I guarantee you that my next build will be based on whether or not you have a log I can follow.

 

So firstly...the chain plates. I realised that I did these wrong and I am rather ashamed that it didn't occur to me that I could modify that part of the kit to resolve the issue. I do unfortunately think its too late to fix this at this point as i drilled holes in the hull for pins and I might just cause a huge mess trying to make right. I will consider it to be a lesson for next time.

 

I have no idea how I managed to let the varnish thing happen but here we are. What are your thoughts on carefully applying boiled linseed oil? I feel like this may be slightly more forgiving or will I just make a mess. Its a bit of a scary position to find myself in because any mistake has the potential to ruin the model.

 

Something unrelated to your kind response....

 

I know that this is one heck of a long shot but do you perhaps have a list of all the things that you bought to modify your Pegasus(anchors, lantern, extra wood, rigging materials etc). I am in South Africa and shipping is very complex and expensive so I am trying to make a comprehensive list of all the extra items I need to order and then order them all in one shot. This situation is made worse by the fact that this is my first build so I don't even have old bits and pieces to fall back on from other builds.

 

I hope you have a charming day. TBE

 

 

 

 

[Richard44]

Hi TBE,

 

Your build is looking really good.

 

I see that you've added the seats of ease - I'm just struggling with those myself at the moment.

 

BE's list is actually at the end of his build log - https://modelshipworld.com/topic/15526-hms-pegasus-by-blue-ensign-finished-victory-models-164-scale/page/10/

 

 

Cheers

Edited October 11, 2021 by Richard44

[Ronald-V]

1 hour ago, The_bitter_end said:

Hey Mugje

 

Thanks for the compliment, the support is always appreciated.

 

As for the decoration I thought about it long and hard and considered the following factors before deciding not to do this.

 

1. I didn't feel that it was that much of a realistic representation of what this embellishment would have looked like in real life.

2. Apparently the vessel would only have had these decorations immediately after its commissioning but for the bulk of its career they would not be in place.

3. I was concerned that the provided components may not actually fit that well into the allocated area due to slight variations between the plan and my model.

4. I was told that CA(super glue) can deteriorate over time and I anticipated these parts starting to fall off in the future and ruining the model)

5. I kind of like the somewhat more traditional feel of the model without the decoration on it. This is just a personal choice but she feels a bit more "serious" without it.

 

All this being said, I really did struggle with the choice but ultimately decided that is what would be best. I loved how they looked on the Pegasus built by B.E. but I'm satisfied with the choice on my version.

 

One other thing worth mentioning is that I saw a model where they replaced the blue paint with black and it created a much more aggressive and sinister feel which I really liked but saw too late to make the change. It might be worth considering.

 

I hope you are well otherwise and that this helped with your decision.

 

Cheers, TBE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have the same feeling about them as you...i also do like the more traditional look without the decorations. 

 

And regarding the black or blue color... that's something to think about indeed. Thanks for your input!

[Blue Ensign]

Hi, bitter,

Beyond using it on Cricket bats I avoid Linseed oil like the plague in relation to modelling.

It can be quite sticky and take an age to dry, I would be very wary of using it, certainly on a completed model.

I did include a list of the items and sources at the end of my log, Richard has given the reference in his post.

As regards the colour of the topsides, Black was the official colour for British ships contrary to the nice shade of blue shown on so many contemporary models.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

[The Bitter End]

On 10/11/2021 at 8:02 AM, Richard44 said:

Hi TBE,

 

Your build is looking really good.

 

I see that you've added the seats of ease - I'm just struggling with those myself at the moment.

 

BE's list is actually at the end of his build log - https://modelshipworld.com/topic/15526-hms-pegasus-by-blue-ensign-finished-victory-models-164-scale/page/10/

 

 

Cheers

Good Day to you Sir

 

Sorry about the slow response, I am coming up to the end of this years orchard establishment and things have been rather busy. We planted 9000 plum and apricot trees and I may have bitten off more than I can chew.

 

How is your SOE project going? I did find it hard to create a realistic rendition of these critical items and I think its fair to say there was a certain amount of settling taking place.

 

Thanks for the link, I am going to get my orders in today.

 

CHeers

 

TBE

 

 

[The Bitter End]

On 10/11/2021 at 11:37 AM, Blue Ensign said:

Hi, bitter,

Beyond using it on Cricket bats I avoid Linseed oil like the plague in relation to modelling.

It can be quite sticky and take an age to dry, I would be very wary of using it, certainly on a completed model.

I did include a list of the items and sources at the end of my log, Richard has given the reference in his post.

As regards the colour of the topsides, Black was the official colour for British ships contrary to the nice shade of blue shown on so many contemporary models.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

Hi Again BE

 

Thanks for the input. It is always helpful. As a matter of interest, why did you decide to go with blue instead of black?

 

I took a look at your list of sources. I was hoping for something more detailed but I realise that is an enormous ask. I will just have to order things one at a time as I come across them in your blog and need them.