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Interesting finding....  Witch way to go?

Paint used.... Vallejo's Yellow Ochre (70.913) and Admiralty Paint's Yellow Ochre (AP9115W).

Top is Floquil Engine Black.  Middle color is Admiralty's Yellow Ochre. Bottom color is Vallejo's Yellow Ochre.

Wood used: L-R a light Mahogany, Walnut,  regular Mahogany.

Which Ochre is correct for the Victory?

Older pictures of the Victory was more of a yellow color but the newer color scheme is more of the middle color.

Surprised by the stark difference between the two yellow ochre colors.

Thoughts?

20200103_114650_resized.jpg

Edited by Daliab
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I'm not an authoritative source on RN colors of that period, but if that middle color is authentic, then I would opt for artistic license and go for the bottom color!

Chris Coyle
Greer, South Carolina

When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
- Tuco

Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix

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I'd beg to differ with Chris, so you are back where you started! Remember there were no Sherwin Williams' stores back in the day. The shipyards or whoever mixed paint as needed. The quality of the pigments were not standard, nor were the formulae for mixing. So, there would be all kinds of variation. Whatever you choose, no-one can say that you are wrong!

Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series  http://trafalgar.tv

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First picture is the new color scheme and the one on the right is the traditional color everyone thinks of when they think of the Victory.  Problem I have is neither one of the colors labeled yellow ochre I have are the below color.  Think I will use the scheme on the right as a model.  May have to mix some of the darker ochre with the bright ochre color to knock off some of the brightness a bit to darken up the bright yellow look.  Just need to mix enough to do everything.

1.jpg2.jpg

Edited by Daliab
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Are you sure the picture on the left is the final color, and not some sort of primer?

Luck is just another word for good preparation.

—MICHAEL ROSE

Current builds:    Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans 

On Hold:  HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett )

In the Gallery: Yacht Mary,  Gretel, French Cannon

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Gregory, Could be.  I read an article a couple of months ago that the Victory was going under some renovations.  In the renovation a paint expert took samples of the 72 different paint layers and said the original color was more of a lemon color.  Lots of folks don't like the new color and have even stated real life it has a pinkish tint to it.  See the two links on the same subject and they can't even come up with the same color.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11908365/Restored-HMS-Victory-raises-eyebrows-with-new-pink-shade.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3142737/Admiral-Nelson-s-HMS-Victory-painted-LEMON-colour-museum-scrapes-72-layers-paint-original-look-40million-restoration.html

 

 

 

 

Edited by Daliab
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Your links would indicate it ( on the left ) is the final color at this point.

 

I don't think it is a color I would be comfortable with if I was building the model.  I think most observers would question it, as a lot of them seem to be doing now.

 

I think Druxey's  comments above, carry a lot of weight.

Luck is just another word for good preparation.

—MICHAEL ROSE

Current builds:    Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans 

On Hold:  HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett )

In the Gallery: Yacht Mary,  Gretel, French Cannon

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I used Admiralty Paint's Yellow Ochre on my HMS Snake.  I added white and yellow to it and I got something between Vallejo's Yellow Ochre and Admiralty.  Honestly go with what you feel because you are going to have to look at the model.  Look at some of the other Victory builds on this site and you'll see a massive array of colors.  

 

Here is a link for a video about the color change. 

 

 

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I wonder if it's possible that the ship's carpenter mixed up some paint while at sea well before the battle?  Or maybe it was painted and then "did the paint fade" before it was painted again?  The problem with this type is situation (72 layers?) is figuring out which is the right one.

 

From where I sit, paint it the way you feel is right.  Seriously... no one can really argue as we really don't know.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

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Maybe get used to it, but the colour is not as seen in so many old pictures (google). Maybe its P.C. (my corel Victory was left without paint-thankfully.)

Edited by stuglo

current build- Swan ,scratch

on shelf,Rattlesnake, Alert semi scratch,Le Coureur,, Fubbs scratch

completed: nostrum mare,victory(Corel), san felipe, sovereign of the seas, sicilian  cargo boat ,royal yacht caroline, armed pinnace, charles morgan whaler, galilee boat, wappen von hamburg, la reale (Dusek), amerigo vespucci, oneida (semi scratch) diane, great harry-elizabethan galleon (semi scratch), agammemnon, hanna (scratch).19th cent. shipyard diorama (Constructo), picket boat, victory bow section

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On 1/3/2020 at 12:11 PM, druxey said:

Whatever you choose, no-one can say that you are wrong!

I don't come to this conclusion after reading the attached news reports. The reports say that the conservators removed accumulated paint coats and identified the coat of paint which was the latest applied at the time of Trafalgar. (This coat was associated with contemporaneous charring, presumably battle damage, as well.) It was consistent with the contemporaneous specifications for mixing the color. The color wasn't the result of an opinion, but rather, if the reports are to be believed, a scientific identification of the exact color seen during the battle. It's not a theory or an opinion. The color visible as of the date of the Battle of Trafalgar was scientifically identified and replicated. It is what it is. That's hard to argue with, I'm afraid, even if other color options are more pleasing to our eyes.

 

That said, what does vary widely are the colors seen in photographs on the internet. The colors seen in these vary due to variations in camera colorization and in screen color variations from screen to screen. What we see on our screens is different from one screen to another, so you're right, unless one uses on the model a color matched to the "official original color" in the flesh, or by using paint matching the scientific description of the color, indeed "nobody knows." from looking at pictures on the internet. (Which is why commercial paint chip pages on line always carry a disclaimer that what we seen on the screen may not be the true color "out of the bottle.")

Edited by Bob Cleek
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Thanks for everyone's input. Ended up using the Admiralty Paint's Yellow Ochre (AP9115W) middle one on the sample. It was the color that was recommended in a larger HMS Victory paint set. The Vallejo's yellow ochre was to yellow for my liking and real thick paint.

20200103_114650_resized.jpg.ba24b06b9e5bbf696f13a247304cda56.jpg

Edited by Daliab
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