HMS Speedy by Delf - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 - Master Shipwright edition

[DelF]

27 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said:

How long were you staying around the fumes during the second planking?

Probably not long on each session. Like you I went fairly slowly - maybe two or three pairs of planks per day. However I was doing it almost every day until I got the second planking finished, and I think it was that prolonged stretch that brought on the adverse reaction. I would  strongly advise playing safe by getting appropriate ventilation.

 

Derek

[Sea Hoss]

Your speedy is looking great...just to say, I developed an allergy to CA also. Used it quite a bit and then I noticed I was getting all congested in my lungs like a bad chest cold. Then using it at all, gave me these symptoms, even just a small whiff! So yes, now when I have to use it (or any highly volatile substance) I put a fan off to the side to blow the vapors away. That takes care of it.

[DelF]

Thanks Sea Hoss. Glad to hear the fan works for you. That’s definitely the way I’ll go. 
 

Derek

[Vane]

Looking Good!

[chris watton]

Cyano has always made my eyes water, like Sea Hoss, I now use a fan and it isn't so bad. Looking great, by the way!

[glbarlow]

Perhaps its the brand, I've never had any issue with the CA I use.  Sorry you're having that issue, maybe the UK has the allergic kind 🙂

[DelF]

Hi Glenn

 

I think I'm just in the unlucky 5% that're susceptible 🤧. The good news is that proper ventilation seems to be the solution, which I'll try when the symptoms allow. If that doesn't work I'll dig out my old scuba gear and wear that. Come to think of it, that gear might be handy anyway in the current crisis.

 

Derek

[DelF]

The CA-related symptoms have calmed down a bit so I've had another go at coppering today. In the meantime I'd finished a bit more deck furniture:

 

I've not used photo-etch before and I'm really impressed with the detail you get - particularly on the deck pumps. I'd struggle to scratch build work of this quality. The recommended AK 174 burnishing fluid leaves a nice finish. The fluid looks like Casey's Brass Black, which I normally use, and works in a similar fashion. I mentioned the importance of cleaning the brass in a previous post. I should add that, as with Brass Black, I find I get the best finish by dipping in the fluid until the brass is sufficiently black all over, taking it out and rinsing in cold water, rubbing all over with a cotton bud to remove any surface powder then repeating. This leads to a deeper and more consistent black.

 

On with the copper. I'll just show one area that I struggled with initially - the bows. You'll see from the photos that I didn't get it right straight away and I'm going to replace at least one of the plates. This is the area I'm working on - I wasn't sure at first how the curved plates on the hull should meet the flat plates on the stem. This is the approach I developed.:

I started with a strip of paper the same width as the copper plates and laid it on top of the last row of plates on the stem. Holding the strip flat I pushed the paper into the join between the hull and the stem, and marked the join with a pencil. The following photo shows that I cut the paper template just outside the pencil line - this is to allow a small strip to overlap the hull:

Using the template I cut the plate with my Xuron scissors. These are very sharp and precise - great for cutting thin metal and planks. I'd tried using a small pair of tin snips but they tended to raise the edge of the copper plate.

Next, I used a piece of scrap wood with a mitred end to crease the plate into the join, before gluing it:

A simple matter then to complete the row with another small piece of plate. I then used the same paper template method to cut out the next plate on the hull. This time I cut the template exactly on the pencil line so that the copper plate overlapped the plate on stem:

The next shot shows the area in close-up:

Things never look as neat in close-up! I'll definitely replace the first of the curved plates, but the next two actually look OK from a normal viewing angle.

 

I should add that I'm using surgical gloves every time I handle the copper. I was lucky enough to buy a box of 100 pairs well before CV-19 was heard of. They certainly help to keep the plates free of marks.

 

As for the CA sensitivity, a fan and face mask certainly help. I'm still sneezing a bit, but nowhere near as bad. Ideally, I should have a vacuum pump exhausted to the outside to suck the fumes away. Anyway, I'll persevere - at this rate it'll take longer than the planking and I'll never catch up with Glenn and Vane (not that I'm competitive ).

 

Stay safe everyone.

 

Derek

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by DelF
Typo

[Glenn-UK]

Looks really good, slow and steady is the best way.

[Vane]

I agree, its abit of a challange and you can use various strategies on how to fit square pieces on a round hull. Vanguards copper is ok to work with at least. 

 

 

[glbarlow]

And again I enjoy my decision to not copper 🤣😂

[DelF]

Believe it or not I'm quite enjoying the coppering, despite the CA fumes. It's a new challenge, and for me that's half the pleasure of modelling. 

 

Having said that, I suspect I may not want to do it again once I've finished Speedy!

 

Derek

[Glenn-UK]

3 minutes ago, DelF said:

Believe it or not I'm quite enjoying the coppering, despite the CA fumes. It's a new challenge, and for me that's half the pleasure of modelling. 

 

Having said that, I suspect I may not want to do it again once I've finished Speedy!

 

Derek

I found Speedy copper plating quite relaxing. My HMS Victory build had approx 3000 copper plates to fit and that did become a tad tedious at times but the end result was worth it on both builds.

[DelF]

Thanks again for the likes and supportive comments. Much appreciated as always.

A quick update. I wasn’t very happy with the waterline I’d drawn so I dug out my laser level – a tool I normally use for DIY jobs around the house. Along with the Proxxon stand which has a ball & socket joint, I was able to shine an accurate line on the hull, connecting the three points on the waterline I’d marked at the bow, stern and midships.

Then came the hard bit. I wanted to follow Glenn’s lead in using a batten to define the upper edge of the copper. I understand this was full-size practice when the copper strakes were cut into the waterline rather than running parallel to it. Likewise on the model, the batten should make it easier to get the cut edges to line up along the waterline.

I milled the 0.8mm X 0.5mm battens from some boxwood strips. The hard part was getting them to stick to the hull. I didn’t want to risk getting CA on the uncoppered  parts of the hull, and after some abortive experiments with glue sticks I decided to try Super ‘Phatic as also recommended by Glenn. This very thin aliphatic resin has a comparatively fast drying time, and by pressing a few inches of the batten at a time against the hull with my fingers I was able to get it to stick. I started in the middle then worked outwards, first to the bow then the stern, holding each section for about two minutes. Laborious but it worked.

It doesn't look straight, but I understand that's an optical illusion caused by the shape of the hull. The deeper draught aft is also very evident. I've now learned (thanks to a query to the MSW community) that this is called positive trim.

 

Derek

Edited April 3, 2020 by DelF

[captain_hook]

Looking good so far. Are stem and stern pieces supposed to be painted black above the coppering?

[Glenn-UK]

13 minutes ago, captain_hook said:

Looking good so far. Are stem and stern pieces supposed to be painted black above the coppering?

Yes, I did that before I started the copper plating on my build.

[Vane]

Waterlines are tricky and nice tip with the laser. I try to look at the marked waterline from various angles when i correct it. Taking photos also helps since then it becomes even more visual when its not completely straight. 

 

Regarding CA i have just discovered a New method that solves alot of problems. Scraping... on boxwood you dont need to be that carefull actually. Just scrape away a couple of microns and everything looks brand New. 🙂

[DelF]

Thanks Vane - good tip about CA. I’ll try it on a spare piece before risking it on the ship!

 

Derek

[glbarlow]

I'm happy for you both - and happy for me not to 🙂

Far too tedious a task for me, even on a small ship, and in my opinion, I don't care for the look, historical accuracy aside.  

But again, I understand its modelers choice and glad you both are enjoying the process and your results.

We all get to be happy in our little wooden world...

[glbarlow]

12 hours ago, Vane said:

Scraping...

I have a few tools just for that purpose, It works great as long as you're careful. The key is to have a flat tool that has a slightly dull edge - sharp, but not very and pulling flat across the wood. The tool not to use is your #11 blade, neither flat nor dull.  

[DelF]

Good point. I have a cabinet scraper I use for full-size jobs but it’s much too big for model work. But I should be able to make something similar on a smaller scale. I might just cut down the scraper as I rarely use it nowadays. 
 

Derek

[EricWilliamMarshall]

On 3/30/2020 at 11:27 AM, DelF said:

developed an adverse reaction to CA

Yikes!! Does ventilation help? 

[EricWilliamMarshall]

1 hour ago, DelF said:

should be able to make something similar on a smaller scale

In my young days, I found old hack saw blades prefect for repurposing into tiny scrapers. Chuck (of Syren fame) uses sheet brass, due to the quickness of shaping the profile he wants.

[DelF]

4 hours ago, EricWilliamMarshall said:

Yikes!! Does ventilation help?

Wearing a face mask and having a fan behind me blowing the fumes away has certainly helped. My nose has begun feeling a bit stuffy since I started coppering again, but nowhere near as bad as it was before when I was sneezing and my nose was running constantly. I still believe the best solution would be a vacuum system piped to the outside, but that will have to wait.

 

4 hours ago, EricWilliamMarshall said:

In my young days, I found old hack saw blades prefect for repurposing into tiny scrapers. Chuck (of Syren fame) uses sheet brass, due to the quickness of shaping the profile he wants.

Thanks for the suggestions Eric, I'll certainly try a piece of hacksaw blade. Brass works fine for me for scraping profiles - I'll try a small sheet as a flat scraper. 

 

2 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

I just find that a  good quality box knife  blade works quite nicely if just a flat scaper will do - I use it both for deck and hull.  Of  course that is another reason for me bleeding a lot on my builds

Thanks SpyGlass. I used a box knife blade for initial shaping on my second planking before sanding, but found it a bit hit & miss. But that may have been my technique - if you look at earlier Speedy pictures you'll see the bloodstains!

 

Derek

[DelF]

Coppering - finished the starboard side this morning. Overall I'm quite pleased as this was my first go. I'm also pleased I used a batten on the waterline as suggested by Glenn.

 

Port next.

 

Derek

 

[Edwardkenway]

It looks very neat Derek, I would be happy with the result if it were mine 😃👍

[DelF]

Hi Glenn

 

I just remembered this exchange we had a few weeks ago, and realised I'd done nothing about it. I've now saved my recently completed Pinnace log and this Speedy log to date. The only method I could find in Chrome was to save each page separately as a full web page. It didn't take long though, and all the text and pictures are now saved on my hard drive and external backup. Thanks again for prompting me to do this. By coincidence, just after I finished saving the logs I was trying out a scraper I'd made from a piece of brass sheet (thanks EricWilliamMarshall for the suggestion) when I remembered I'd used exactly the same method to finish the decks on my Royal Caroline - but that was years before I kept logs. 

 

The learning point for me was the value of keeping logs, not just for others' benefit but to save oneself having to reinvent the wheel all the time!

 

Derek

On 2/21/2020 at 5:24 PM, glbarlow said:

I did a very long and detailed logs of my Pegasus and Fair American builds that were lost in the big systems crash a few years ago.

On 2/21/2020 at 5:32 PM, DelF said:

I'll certainly learn from your experience and keep offline copies from now on.

 

[glbarlow]

1 minute ago, DelF said:

I've now saved my recently completed Pinnace log and this Speedy log to date

Good, and well done!  As a photographer I'm a big believer in the value of backups, can't have too many backups.

[chris watton]

Looks perfect to me!

[Glenn-UK]

Very nice copper plating, well done