1/35 UH-1H Huey By lmagna

[mtaylor]

This popped up in war channel feed today.   A nice history and first hand accounts for the Huey.   https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2016/09/19/the-uh-1-iroquois-huey-helicopter/

[lmagna]

Thanks Mark.

 

Not certain I agree with everything the author says but it is still a quick glance back. Didn't you spend some time in H-34s?

[mtaylor]

15 hours ago, lmagna said:

Thanks Mark.

 

Not certain I agree with everything the author says but it is still a quick glance back. Didn't you spend some time in H-34s?

Early on in my squadron before we transitioned to -53's.   Interesting bird the -34 as it was made of aluminum and magnesium and the fuel (Av Gas) was in the belly.   I liked it due the big door but then we weren't in combat.

[lmagna]

54 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

I liked it due the big door

That reminds me of a question I was asked by one of my more humorous ACs when I first started flying. "Do you know why a Huey has such large doors on each side?"............................

 

"So that the bullets can pass through without hitting anything important." Of course one has to remember that the "unimportant" things that are always located in that area is the gunners! Kind of a grim humor thing I suppose, but I guess you had to be there. Another one we heard early on was a little more famous. "The average lifespan of a door gunner from the time he lifts of until he ALMOST lands again is.............................! Again, possibly not funny to others. I suppose you had to be there. 

[Old Collingwood]

12 minutes ago, lmagna said:

That reminds me of a question I was asked by one of my more humorous ACs when I first started flying. "Do you know why a Huey has such large doors on each side?"............................

 

"So that the bullets can pass through without hitting anything important." Of course one has to remember that the "unimportant" things that are always located in that area is the gunners! Kind of a grim humor thing I suppose, but I guess you had to be there. Another one we heard early on was a little more famous. "The average lifespan of a door gunner from the time he lifts of until he ALMOST lands again is.............................! Again, possibly not funny to others. I suppose you had to be there. 

I would have worn a bullet proof vest  - nah scrub that  a suit or armour  but left the gaunlets off to fire the maching gun.

 

OC.

[lmagna]

1 minute ago, Old Collingwood said:

I would have worn a bullet proof vest  - nah scrub that  a suit or armour  but left the gaunlets off to fire the maching gun.

We did! Why leave off the gauntlets?

[mtaylor]

23 minutes ago, lmagna said:

That reminds me of a question I was asked by one of my more humorous ACs when I first started flying. "Do you know why a Huey has such large doors on each side?"............................

 

"So that the bullets can pass through without hitting anything important." Of course one has to remember that the "unimportant" things that are always located in that area is the gunners! Kind of a grim humor thing I suppose, but I guess you had to be there. Another one we heard early on was a little more famous. "The average lifespan of a door gunner from the time he lifts of until he ALMOST lands again is.............................! Again, possibly not funny to others. I suppose you had to be there. 

Ah yes... the black humor of combat.    Or "life expectancy of a gunner is dependent on if he flies that day."

 

 

10 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

I would have worn a bullet proof vest  - nah scrub that  a suit or armour  but left the gaunlets off to fire the maching gun.

 

OC.

Just the vest was available for us.  I guess everything else was "unessential".

[lmagna]

18 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Just the vest was available for us

The same for us, even though later we were able to get the flack vests like the grunts wore. They were lighter, cooler, and allowed far better movement but I suppose not as good at stopping bullets. All of the crewmen on my Huey will have chicken vests. I saw a picture once somewhere that showed a guy wearing full armor including some kind of lower leg protection that looked like the leg protection worn by baseball catchers, Cricket players or hockey goalies. Where was that kind of stuff when I was flying? 

Edited April 11, 2020 by lmagna

[Old Collingwood]

1 hour ago, lmagna said:

We did! Why leave off the gauntlets?

I meant a nights suit of armour like they used to wear back in the 15th century.😉

 

OC.

[Egilman]

1 hour ago, lmagna said:

That reminds me of a question I was asked by one of my more humorous ACs when I first started flying. "Do you know why a Huey has such large doors on each side?"............................

 

"So that the bullets can pass through without hitting anything important." Of course one has to remember that the "unimportant" things that are always located in that area is the gunners! Kind of a grim humor thing I suppose, but I guess you had to be there. Another one we heard early on was a little more famous. "The average lifespan of a door gunner from the time he lifts of until he ALMOST lands again is.............................! Again, possibly not funny to others. I suppose you had to be there. 

I suppose when someone is put into a situation where you have to accept that your chances of making it out alive are worse that not, gallows humor helps pass the fear off into something manageable....

 

A very human way to keep your sanity.......

[Canute]

A macabre sense of humor was pretty typical. Some F4Es had armor plate over areas on the belly of the jet, supposedly to protect things like the generators and lox bottle. The fuel was in the wings and fuselage and had self sealing tanks and some kind of foam in the tanks. The armor plate disappeared in combat. Too much excess weight for negligible protection. We aircrew always said we'd be done in by the golden BB, i.e., when your time was up, the game was over. Very fatalistic. Our protection was our speed versus the forces down south. Over North Viet Nam, eyeballs, speed and hopefully the jamming pods we carried were our protection.

[mtaylor]

5 hours ago, lmagna said:

The same for us, even though later we were able to get the flack vests like the grunts wore. They were lighter, cooler, and allowed far better movement but I suppose not as good at stopping bullets. All of the crewmen on my Huey will have chicken vests. I saw a picture once somewhere that showed a guy wearing full armor including some kind of lower leg protection that looked like the leg protection worn by baseball catchers, Cricket players or hockey goalies. Where was that kind of stuff when I was flying? 

 

I only saw the bullet bouncer, sir. Never saw the shin pads.  We had flack vests but our pilot (the CO) wanted his crew in bullet bouncers.  

4 hours ago, Egilman said:

I suppose when someone is put into a situation where you have to accept that your chances of making it out alive are worse that not, gallows humor helps pass the fear off into something manageable....

 

A very human way to keep your sanity.......

 

In deed, it is.  On the roof of our hooch, we had huge ring of concentric circles painted and in Vietnamise... the words "Aim here".    And then there's the nicknames.. like  "cannon fodder", etc.  Choppers were "moving targets" when flying and "sitting ducks" when landing or on the ground.

[lmagna]

5 hours ago, Egilman said:

A very human way to keep your sanity.......

Who said anything about sane? I have been crazy for most of my life and have papers to prove it.

 

We were always reminded that the aircraft we were flying in was made by the lowest bidder Ken.

 

1 hour ago, mtaylor said:

Choppers were "moving targets" when flying and

I would revise that to "Low and slow moving" Mark. 

[lmagna]

6 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

I meant a nights suit of armour like they used to wear back in the 15th century

Works for me gauntlets and all. The only problem I see is that it would be like being inside a baking oven and that those old suits of armor that the knights wore were probably not as bullet proof as a chicken vest. Believe me when I say that after getting some incoming while sitting in an open doorway a couple of times, you start envying those guys sitting in the heavy armor down on the ground a little. 

[Edwardkenway]

These small tours of your service days are riveting, I could read them all day! Same as when my dad talks about his navy days😊👍

[lmagna]

Thanks Edward, You should also look at Mark's CH-53 build,  

 

When I opened this build it was for two reasons. One to mark my personal 50 year anniversary for the year I spent in Hueys by commemorating it with the build and possibly sharing some memories of what life was like back then. In addition I originally hoped that people from everywhere and all backgrounds would chip in with personal memories of their life of 50 years ago from whatever part of the world they may have been at the time. Vietnam was almost a unique American experience and even then only directly affected a very small portion of the nation in all. We have heard from a few Vets of course and the personal accounts and attempts at explanation without need to apologize or being criticized. But unfortunately it seems that the stories of those who were away those years of 1965-1975 have not been matched by by the vast majority of people who came of age at home instead of halfway around the world in a place they had never heard of. To me, those stories are just as interesting as you feel ours are. We will never know what it was like to come of age uninterrupted by someone else's agenda, and living a totally alien life.     

[Edwardkenway]

I did follow Mark's log as well.

Those years I was too young to know anything about the world outside my garden and when those kind of events became of interest to me the world was if not altogether peaceful it was uneventful til '82 and the Falklands war. But to hear from someone who was part of "history" albeit recent makes it all the more interesting. So thankyou Lou and Mark 👍👍

PS your recollections are the real  thing and not a filmmakers take on it.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Edwardkenway

[lmagna]

It is entirely possible that I didn't write my comment quite right yet again Edward. I am pretty prone to that.

 

It would probably been better to say something like "What was your life like when you went through the years of 18-21 (+-)?" Those of us who have been posting comments here all had different experiences. I am not certain but I think all of the other three vets that have been posting about personal experiences here and in Mark's build are all older than myself. Mark volunteered for the Marines, probably right out of high school. Ken I suspect had some college or had graduated from college or enrolled in ROTC in some way and went into the Air Force. He was the only one of us who went on and stayed in the service after his tour. I do not even know if he spent more than one tour, even though it is entirely possible. Jack I think was drafted, possibly out of college and possibly before he graduated, and drew the coveted job that kept him not only in the US for his full enlistment, but close to home as well. My number came up when I was almost 19 and had no idea what I was going to do with my life. Everyone I knew had either gone into the military or out into the workforce prior to graduating. In fact I was having a problem finding a good job because everyone wanted experience and the only ones who had experience in my age group were the high school drop outs! So off I went into the Army and by now you probably know most of the rest of the story.

 

I won't speak for the others "Recollection" of events as I am almost certain their's is a little different than mine. But I do know that my remembrances are both selective and probably flawed. Doing this build has if nothing else pointed that out. I am constantly being reminded of stuff I had forgotten, or hidden, in some dark part of my memory. Even stuff as simple as names that I had thought I would never forget are just faces in my mind today. Not all thankfully, but some. It almost makes me ashamed, as I always thought it would be my job to remember them, especially after I came home and found that almost no one else was going to do so. 

 

You also need to remember that you are just as much a part of history as anyone else, just your part of history. Possibly your history has not been the product of books and movies, and possibly that part of your history is still to come. Either way you have affected the world around you in many ways and influenced many lives just like everyone else. In fact, right now you are making history as one of the survivors of the largest pandemic of the 21st century. A world wide event that has not been matched since WWII. Someday this will be history and someday someone will ask you. "What did you do in the Covid19 pandemic?"  Or possibly "What was it like in the 2020 pandemic?" 

Edited April 12, 2020 by lmagna

[mtaylor]

Lou,

Good points all around on that.   The catch to rememberances is that no two people will remember the same event (even if they're standing next to each other) exactly the same.  And like you... memories come and go and some hit harder than others.

 

Remembering the names, in my opinion, isn't the important part.  Remembering what you and they did is.  I will say that there are memories that most of us will not speak but they are there.  

[Edwardkenway]

7 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Remembering the names, in my opinion, isn't the important part.  Remembering what you and they did is.

That's  a good way to look at it!

 

39 minutes ago, lmagna said:

Either way you have affected the world around you in many ways and influenced many lives just like everyone else.

I never thought of it that way. Once again Lou and  Mark thanks. 

[Jack12477]

1 hour ago, lmagna said:

Jack I think was drafted, possibly out of college and possibly before he graduated, and drew the coveted job that kept him not only in the US for his full enlistment, but close to home as well.

Yes,  I was drafted, but a couple years after I graduated college. I was 24 when I went into the Army,  of 250 or so recruits in my basic training company I think only a dozen of us were over age 21, rest were 18-20. Because I had a degree in Mathematics, I got pulled from the mainstream draftees and assigned to a research and development ordnance Arsenal in northwestern NJ for 2 years, about a 6-7 hour car drive from my home town in western NY.  While I did not see any combat I did get the unpleasant job from time to time of notification of next of kin across the 5 counties of northern NJ  for both those killed in action and those killed in car accidents, also provided Honor Guard and/or Pallbearer at any Army funeral in area.  Did have a few bad experiences with a few of the next of kin notifications, but as Mark said we tend to not talk much about those.  

 

Otherwise it was mostly weapons R&D work.  We had close to 250  draftees with Science or Engineering degrees assigned with me at the Arsenal doing the same work I was doing.

 

BTW the Arsenal has a long and rich history dating back to George Washington and the Revolutionary Army.  

[lmagna]

WOW, 24! By the standards of the guys I knew I was considered old at 20! You must have been considered ancient! I already told you what I thought about your "side job." The honor guard part would not have been so bad I suppose, but I don't know if I could have faced the notification of next of kin part.

 

When I was waiting over night for my discharge papers in Oakland I ran across a guy who had the job of flying home with the caskets of guys to their home towns. Another job that would have been beyond my abilities.

[Jack12477]

21 minutes ago, lmagna said:

You must have been considered ancien

Only in boot camp !  Once I got to the arsenal I found out all the guys both enlisted and officer ranks were all my age and same level of education. Officers were mostly ROTC, one was a classmate who I hadn't seen since college days. We bumped into each other on the arsenal one day. 

[mtaylor]

2 hours ago, lmagna said:

WOW, 24! By the standards of the guys I knew I was considered old at 20! You must have been considered ancient! I already told you what I thought about your "side job." The honor guard part would not have been so bad I suppose, but I don't know if I could have faced the notification of next of kin part.

 

When I was waiting over night for my discharge papers in Oakland I ran across a guy who had the job of flying home with the caskets of guys to their home towns. Another job that would have been beyond my abilities.

The notifications by the Marines were done by the recruiters as I remember.   The honor guard, salute with rifles at the cemetery wasn't as hard but it wasn't easy.   Hard to watch mom, dad, wife, kids all falling apart when we did the salute and taps were played. Luckily for me, I only had to do it once.  I went to a Vietnam vet (friend) funeral about 10 years ago, and they also had a bagpipe playing "Amazing Grace"....   

 

Those "escort" guys had a rough job, Lou.  They would stay with the body until the honor guard showed up and then work with the family on all the details. It wouldn't have been a job I could do either.  The Marines used NCO's (E-5 and above, Viet Vet) so "above my pay grade" thank God.

[lmagna]

To be honest I am surprised that you didn't try for officer status or at least Warrant. Same job just better pay and living conditions. I only knew a couple of guys who were enlisted with full degrees.

 

Just to prove that I have in fact working on this darn model here are pictures of the latest progress. Not much over the last pictures but I find this kind of stuff incredibly slow and tedious and have to take breaks and do other stuff every couple of hours or so. 

 

I have finally installed the collective and cyclic sticks. along with the foot pedals. I ended up using the kit pedals as frankly they were just easier to deal with. The collective and cyclic are aftermarket. I have glued the pilot into his seat and mounted the collective to his hand, not the cabin floor. I also extended his harness straps back to the seat and down to the recoil box on the back. They did not turn out like I wanted and I had to try and get it right several times as evidenced by all of the glue marks that will have to be painted over. Not a neat job to say the least and I am tempted to rip them all out and possibly cut new ones from something more flexible like paper or possibly even white tape. Something like Lou did on his plane build recently. The co-pilot is still loose but about all that is needed for him is the shoulder harness over the back of the seat and glue him in. Both of them also need some paint touch up yet again.

 

I installed the dash using the kit supplied PE/painted version. While memory says that dash should be completely black like the console I do have a surviving picture that I took that happens to show part of the dash uncovered by shadow and it is the gray and black colors, so at least one Huey I flew in had this color. I also used it because it is FAR FAR better and more detailed than ANYTHING I could have done, and being the liter contrasting colors will be more visible after the fuselage and windows are installed.

 

So close your eyes and look the other way, here come the pictures:

 

[mtaylor]

Lovely work, Lou.  If you hadn't mentioned the issues, we probably wouldn't have noticed them.  Now put an egg beater on her and she'll fly 

[lmagna]

28 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Now put an egg beater on her and she'll fly

I wish!

[Old Collingwood]

Nothing wrong with that lou   - looks spot on from my direction   dont care what you think you are doing  a great job  (trust me).

 

OC.

[Edwardkenway]

Nice work Lou 😊

 

[Egilman]

Just a note, from the factory, (Bell Helicopter) the dash panels were grey, same grey as the rest of the interior..... They were painted black by the receiving station/unit on the order of the commanding general that felt they would be better black..... (less glare or some such opinion) And there are lots of examples that not all of them got painted...

 

Looks spot on to me.......