HMS Victory by Kevin-the-lubber - Heller - 1:100 - PLASTIC - with 3D printed additions

[Bill97]

So you will just toss the stern plate and quarter galleries that came with the kit and use your replacements?  I have no idea how it works but I find 3D design and printing fascinating. Obviously from what you said above you have to be prepared for some costly experiments that may not go just right?

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Yes, that's the plan. I think there's a fair chance I won't use that much of the kit (2 kits actually), just use the parts for reference and sell them off on ebay when I don't need them anymore. I'm sure plenty of people have 'oh no!' moments where a spare part would save the day. 

 

It's proven to be a bit expensive while learning but that's just one of those things - if I'd foreseen the end cost I'd probably never have even started the ship and definitely not gone into 3D, but in the event it's given me a new interest so I don't really mind. What's bringing you to Scotland? Vacation, relatives? Been before?

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Quite heavy going lately. Modelling the feathers so they look more or less like fleur-de-lys, rather than like a pair of ram's horn with a blob in the middle, has been testing but I think I've finally got close enough this evening. Still needs some finishing at the tips but had enough for tonight! This may be a part that requires a little post-printing hand work, to scratch some 'feathery' lines as I haven't been able to find a good way of doing this programmatically. I've already decided, for now at least, that I'm going to gold paint all of the arms, apart from the feathers and flags. Otherwise they just won't show up, besides which there is precious little gilt-work on Victory.

 

 

The scrolls and corbels are also done. Sadly a lot of the really, really fine detail doesn't really show when printed as this does push the limits of even resin printing.

 

                            

 

 

Next is the flags, which I know will require more learning (as will the figurine). I've been reading on making decals recently and may play around with that rather than paint the flags, see if it's possible to get them to mould to the flags 'casting'. The same applies to the admirals entrance, when I return to this, there's some incredibly fine scroll work there that might benefit from decals if they work. I didn't even know, until a couple of days ago, that you can make them yourself so any experienced hands, comments very welcome. 

 

 

 

 

[Bill97]

Beautiful work Kevin. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks Bill. I've got a bit sick of doing the flags, too complicated for my brain this week, so have switched to the now relatively easy windows etc for the side galleries. Two done, third to go some time over the weekend. Bit by bit....

 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Kind of on the home straight with the stern section now. I have a few small details to model, some minor adjustments to make everything seamless, then prepare it all for printing. I guess it'll still be a few weeks before I'm ready to start printing again, as I want avoid making mistakes through too much haste.

 

I spent today on the real Victory. She's looking a bit uninspiring right now. As you can see, they recently removed the main mast completely and from what I overheard, it'll be several years before it'll go back on. And they've re-painted the ochre (which at least hinted at a touch of bling) in that hideous pinky-fleshy colour. Not for the first time, it has me thinking that, if yellow ochre would be historically incorrect in the first place, then why tie myself to any particular colour scheme, why not go french and give it a bit more colour, a la Marc's Soliel Royale? I also had a look around the Victory museum, largely to get a closer look at the figurehead, which has been removed to there. This picture caught my eye though, or to be more precise, this section of a much larger painting by John Wilson Carmichael, of Victory moored off the Isle of Wight with Nelson's body aboard. Since John was only 5 years old at the time I don't suppose this was contemporaneous, either that or he was quite a talent, but either way, there's no trophy of arms here, just a moulding that's in keeping with the scroll-work we see today either side of the stern. Though oddly, the latter is not present. 

 

 

[Bill97]

Wow Kevin she does seem a little less impressive with main mask removed. I still prefer the yellow ochre color and went with that on mine. 

I am going to be very interested in watching your build with your 3D parts and Daniel’s etched pieces it will be incredible!

 

i recently started using my iPad instead of my iPhone to read and post. I have noticed there is more profile information shown on the iPad I had not seen on my phone. I noticed that you have the Revell Cutty Sark in your stash. I built it a while back and you can find my log on here when you get to it. Very enjoyable and lends itself well to bashing. 

 

A few post back you asked what was bringing me to Scotland and I failed to answer. We cancelled now because of Covid but we were going to St Andrews to watch the Dunhill Pro Am golf tournament. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

That’s just me learning how to use this site better and procrastinating rather than getting on with the job! If you don’t know the St Andrew’s area, it’s a lovely part of the world, though likely to be a bit wet and cold at this time of the year.

 

At the very least I too will stick with yellow ochre but I love the colour and interest Marc has put into his SR. Part of the attraction of doing the Cutty Sark, at some point, is that this too is very easy for me to visit, but I’ll want to be a long way into Victory before I even start on that. The Beagle will probably go back on eBay, it’s such a poor kit.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Only one last little bit of making left now, the little bit of architrave on the corner of the counter, then lots and lots of fiddling with fitting grooves and pins. Quite a slow process at this stage, you need the patience of all the saints combined as, due to the complexity (and probably my poor workflow) Fusion 360 takes ages to compute each minor change.

 

[europapete]

This is looking awesome Kevin, well done. Who knew that a simple idea for an improvement would lead this all this?  You must have been hanging out with Dafi too much! Regards, Pete in RI

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks for looking Pete. Yes indeed, this has become quite a project and I can’t wait to be through with it. I’m just glad my printers are nowhere big enough to support re-making the hull, as that would have been irresistible!

[Ian_Grant]

Kevin, actually you could print the hull in sections, like Yves Vidal's corvette.

 

Just sayin'    😁😉

[europapete]

Don't give him ideas Ian, he's daft enough already!

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I'm in good company though, aren't I 🤪. But no; if I had access to the original Heller drawings I'd be tempted, but reverse engineering the contours of the hull, I think not.

[europapete]

Ah, but surely the NMM can help you out there. So, we do not accept that as an excuse. Also there is the AOTS book.

I'll get my coat. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

That sounds like the sort of help I’d best decline for the sake of my sanity😬.

[europapete]

lol, yuup. info overload = no modelling done. (ask me how I know)  Regards Pete in RI

[Kevin-the-lubber]

The worst of it is that between you, you have got me thinking all the wrong thoughts. It probably isn't nearly as difficult as I'm making out and it's oh so tempting to just play a little. Especially as I've just received a very large wash'n'cure machine which seems to be begging for particularly large prints. A thought that keeps recurring, as a way around the size limitations of hobby printers, is a plank on frame approach. Imagine: a resin printed frame, to avoid what looks like the hard parts of that (not that I've ever made a plank on frame), the getting it absolutely true and absolutely accurate to the 'drawings'. Then 'plank' it with sections of faux planking, but with the plank sections keyed into the frame so no creep through fractional cumulative error. No bending to shape, no cutting, able to design in all the detail (admirals entrance, proper side steps, rigols, wales,  thickened gunports, internal framework, no woodgrain).... The big question is whether the resulting model would have any soul. I'm reminded of the anecdote about the very best handmade persian rugs, that they always contain one tiny, deliberate mistake, because that virtually undetectable 'error' is what brings them to life. Whether this is a true story or not, I agree with the sentiment - machine made art is rarely quite as beautiful as that made by hand.

 

Anyway, I will at least concentrate on finishing work in hand first, and on getting to a stage where I can finally make some progress with the kit hull. 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Big day for me.... I essentially finished the stern modelling today, at least as far as I'll go with it for now. I have a printing marathon ahead... there are 39 parts to this 'mini-kit' and each one requires a lot of patience to set up for a good print, and no doubt some things will need a little fiddling. Here's the first off the press today, the fine decor at the bottom of the quarter galleries and lower counter, in this instance resting on the dummy body I made a couple of months back. Far from being an exact replica but I think it'll do. It's also the first time I've managed to do something using meshmixer, which I used to add the lines on the leaves.

 

 

 

 

[Hubac's Historian]

It’s pretty hilarious how poor the stock kit lower finishing is, in comparison with what you have made, Kevin.  Looks awesome!  You should be very proud

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks Marc, the hilarious thing is that this all started out as a way to have a break from my unsatisfactory and frustrating efforts to model the side steps - I thought I'd spend a week painting the stern from the kit, which looked interesting, while awaiting inspiration for a better way to do the steps. Until I found it impossible to paint the balustrades.... 😃. You'd have just got on with it! But it's got me to learn basic 3D modelling and the side steps should be much easier to get right, now. I know I can still improve on some bits of the stern, I could probably easily 'etch' this part a little more for instance, but at least I now have a fair base to work from if I get the inclination and, once I get the printing setups right, it's easy to make changes. I still haven't got a trophy that I'm happy with but will leave that for another day, nor touched the lanterns, which don't look so hard.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Probably the trickiest part to print, the main body....

 

           

 

               

 

 

Resin printing is fabulous for detail but, as with all things in life, you can't have everything. Hence the inside (second photo) looks like it's had the Intrepide or Redoutable lobbing 24 pounders down the length of every deck all day long. This is the underside when printing, to which all the supports attach. My priority is to try to keep the visible outside edges as sharp as possible, especially the very top and the letters, at the expense of the interior. 

 

This is a test fit directly after removing all the supports and before cleaning up. I've built in the benches in the captain and admiral's quarters, as well as the quarter gallery floors (with en suite's of course), to give added rigidity and assist with fitting. Between them, the benches and floors lightly pinch the hull sides such that the whole thing sits in place without glue. Though the lower floor needs moving up a foot or two, you'd be needing a ladder in real life.

 

All that mess in the third picture is the printing supports. More resin goes into these than in the part itself, but I've learned to go big rather than penny pinch. I think somewhere in that pile is the lower gallery decor I made a couple of days ago 😂... I tested it for fit ( fits nicely) but can't find it now so assume I scooped it up when tidying up. 

 

The only area that will, I think, need more than the lightest filling will be where the lower counter meets the hull. It's as good a fit as the kit part, which isn't saying much! The gap won't be as big as the picture suggests, just a little where the hull halves don't quite match.

 

[Hubac's Historian]

That is just a spectacular achievement, Kevin - BRAVO!!

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks Marc. I'm not entirely there yet - the print currently underway is the acid test (the windows, figurine, scrolls), but if it all goes together as planned I'll have a very nice, happy and long sleep tonight.

[Bill97]

Fantastic job Kevin. You are truly becoming a master of the 3D printer. Very impressive!

[Kevin-the-lubber]

All’s gone well this evening. I need to rethink using locating pins, at 0.8mm they are too hard to distinguish from supports. But I think I’ll have a lie in tomorrow!

 

A master - nowhere near it I’m afraid, when you see the skills of the pro’s. I’m just becoming more and more stubborn with age 😀!

[mtaylor]

I'm just catching up, Kevin.   Just a wow! This is pretty amazing work.   Daffi is also using 3D on his Victory but not to the extent you're doing.

[Ian_Grant]

Kevin,  you've blown me away with this 3D work!  Breathtaking!

 

I'd like to contract you to do the Fusion360 hull lines for my upcoming roman galley....😉

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thank you gents, much appreciated. It makes a very welcome change to be back to scraping and sanding after too many months staring at the screen. Marc, you’d enjoy this bit. The resin is quite like evergreen in workability, it’s easy to scrape off little lumps and bumps and sculpt. Ian, you’re very determined to get me doing a hull, aren’t you! And I have to admit that the back of my mind is churning away at the Victory hull. The basic thing doesn’t look that difficult but I think I would need a second copy of McKay, to break apart in order to get dead flat scans of the profiles. Mark, I saw Daniel’s beautiful new side steps yesterday, this is probably next on my list but I may take a bit of a break first, the stern has been a little all consuming, bordering on the unhealthy.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Small victories are always welcome.... forgive the pun.

 

On the first mock-up some months back I couldn't get all the letters on the signboard to sit down in their sockets so that they all protruded by exactly the same amount. Turns out you get a lip on bottom of resin prints when these are flat on the print plate, as opposed to being on supports. You'd have to look carefully to notice it on bigger parts, but it's there. Supporting the letters isn't an option, some webs are probably only 0.2mm thick. So, easy solution: print the letters taller than needed, make a little reverse image sanding jig with the correct end depth and sand until flush. 

 

I must have increased the socket clearance on the upper counter at some point, as a solution. As there is now a little too much clearance I will either adjust this backwards for the final model or just increase the size of the letters by 0.1mm. I will also be making a reverse version of the jig, for when I airbrush; I learned too that you don't want to get any paint on the sides, you can easily add 0.2mm with that. These are very quick and easy operations.

 

Getting the clearances right is everything on this project, because the tolerances are necessarily very fine. I don't want gaps where parts meet and in many areas the overlap is constrained to only 0.2mm, about the thickness of a sheet of paper, just enough to hide the join but no room for error.  You'll notice a bulge on the middle windows; I reduced the clearance by 0.1mm since the mock-up, but this has changed it from clearance to interference fit. Again, 5 minutes to fix now that the whole kit is modelled. You may also notice the lower scroll and figurine, I've incorporated these into the middle window component as it 'fixes' their position, likewise I've incorporated the upper scroll into the serrated decor above the top window, but more on these will follow presently. With a little luck I'll be posting in technicolor by the end of the week!