HM Cutter Lady Nelson by Paul_S - FINISHED - Amati/Victory Models - 1/64

[Paul_S]

Hi

 

Hopefully i've set my title correctly.  First time doing a build log of anything online before, hoping it will be itneresting to others and me.  I've made a few plastic models of various things over the years but am using my incalculable time sat on my own at home to take up a new hobby, building boats out of wood and string.

 

I started a few weeks ago with an 18th century longboat and was genuinely surprised at how well it turned out, so i've moved onwards and upwards and am now tackling The HM Cutter Lady Nelson by Victory Models.

 

I've seen quite a few logs of this ship by new builders so hopefully it was a good one to chose, the box says 'A perfect introduction' so maybe it won;t scare me off

 

I believe it is customary to show some pictures of the box

 

and the contents

 

 

It honestly looks like a pile of not very much at the moment and the instructions just say stuff like 'Using the drawings make up the bowsprit, bits and belaying racks' and if i'm honest i don't really know what any of those things are but i plan to follow the order of things from the Longboat and hopefully i'll figure out the other stuff as i go along

[ccoyle]

1 minute ago, Paul_S said:

Hopefully i've set my title correctly.

You did, thank you! Have fun with this -- cutters are good models for neophyte builders. Check out the other logs if you get stuck, and remember that this kit's designer is a regular member here (Chris Watton), so he'll probably check in from time to time.

 

Cheers!

[tkay11]

The Sherbourne is a good example of this type of cutter, and there are lots of excellent builds of that on this forum. In particular have a look at those by Dubz, Gregor and Stockholm Tar. In these, in addition to the details of the build, are some useful discussions of the historical aspects with reference to original plans and drawings.

 

Tony

[Paul_S]

I've photocopied the plans and marked out the line at the bottom of the supports, the bearding line? maybe?

 

On my longboat i sanded this down then made a groove for the planks to sit in before i attached the keel.  Should i be doing this on this one too? 

 

I have 2 sets of planking on this model so that implies my groove should be twice as deep, but thats probably more than the thickness of the middle support, so not possible.  

 

How about if i cut it out for the first set of planks, then after cut a groove in that set so the second set fit into it?

[tkay11]

Generally people prefer to do the planking before attaching the stem, keel and sternpost. This keeps them protected from sanding and allows you to plank very accurately to their edges. If you study the build logs, you'll see how others have managed the double planking. Some, including myself, bought 0.5mm thick strips to do the second layer, including wider strips to ensure the garboard plank fits well. There are good planking tutorials on this site which can be found in the articles database (click on the link at the top of the menus).

 

Tony

[Paul_S]

Should i sand a rabbet? on the bottom of the keel to help them fit, otherwise the planking will stand proud of the keel

[Gregory]

26 minutes ago, Paul_S said:

Should i sand a rabbet? on the bottom of the keel to help them fit, 

You should sand out a ' bearding line, so the keel and stern post stand proud of the ' back bone ', that some call the false keel.

 

 

This illustration shows a chisel being used, but with the MDF in this kit, you should be able to do most of it with sanding tools.

 

On a double planked hull, a true rabbet is more of a challenge.  The kit design assumes you will fit the final planking flush with the keel and stem to give the appearance of a Rabbet.

 

 

Another option is to fit some very small ( 1 x 1 mm ) stock along the bottom and front of the backbone as seen here, in Chuck's Cheerful. This creates a slot that serves as a rabbet.

However you have to consider the thickness of both layers of planking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Gregory

[Paul_S]

Brill thanks, that what i wanted to know.  I did that on my longboat but i couldnt see any mention of it in the instructions or any build logs

[Paul_S]

I've got the Bulkheads attached and i think they are square (more hope than anything)

 

I wasn't happy with the way the back one fitted so i drilled through it and fitted a small pin to hold it on better then filled the hole with a sawdust and glue mixture which has hidden it really well

 

 

 

Next step is to sand down the sides and make them even, i already did some sanding before i fastened the bulkheads so hopefully it wont need a lot of sanding down

[tkay11]

You can  check the squareness of the bulkheads using square blocks (such as Lego) or a set square. It's worth the extra effort.

 

Tony

[Paul_S]

Used a square as suggested to check the bulkheads and they seem to be pretty close.  Spent ages sanding down the sides to make it all nice and even.

The filler pieces at the back caused me some problems as they didnt fit super well and needed trimming down a lot, hope i didnt fluff it up too badly

 

 

Deck is glued down and the bits at the back are on

 

 

 

I photocopied the plans and cut out the side top bits and tested them for fit and they all fit pretty well and neatly.

 

Next job is fitting them properly, this is definetly the bit of everything i'm worried about

 

Planking my longboat was pretty easy as i didnt need to worry about stealers and stuff, it was all just single lengths.

 

 

Not really sure how you decide what the correct 'run' for the planks is and when you decide to not just butt up against the previous one and instead leave a gap that needs a stealer.

 

Any tips anyone can give me?

 

[tkay11]

The best way is to study the planking tutorials in the articles database which you can find by clicking on the button at the top of the page. They are excellent. The first layer of planking is not too sensitive as you can use filler and sanding with gusto to smooth it all down since it won't be seen. However the second layer of planking is much easier if you buy 0.5mm thick strips of wood (cherry is good) including 2 x 10mm wide strips for the garboard planks. When you do your calculations for the number of strips needed you may find that 5mm wide is suitable.

 

Tony

[Paul_S]

So i've done the first layer of planking but i really couldn't get the hang of it.  I need to sand it down and fill some gaps, it looks OK but my technique was appaling

 

 

 

I started at the top and tried to do what Chuck's guide said, marked off some battens, measuredo ut between and divided them, used tick sheets etc but they just wouldn't fit, i ended up with planks 1mm wide at the front and huge gaps at the back.  Unfortunately the top plank was glued on when i realised it wasnt working so i tried working up from the bottom and having another go.

 

The garboard plank went on fine but the rest just wouldnt fit in between the battens properly no matter what i did.  Not sure if you can see on the photo but i ended up with lots of triangle shaped extra planks at the back and even one at the front even though theres no room there as the planks just wouldnt sit nicely otherwise.

 

At this point i gave up on doing it properly and just aimed to get a decent finish for the second plank. so i got the planks curving into the top rather than finishing at the front.

 

I think my issue is putting my battens across, there doesn't seem to be any guidance that i can see on where they go other than 'place a strip so it sits naturally' theres like 100 places that could go naturally and i have no idea which to go with.

 

Any tips would be massively appreciated

 

Paul

 

[VTHokiEE]

11 hours ago, Paul_S said:

think my issue is putting my battens across, there doesn't seem to be any guidance that i can see on where they go other than 'place a strip so it sits naturally' theres like 100 places that could go naturally and i have no idea which to go with.

I believe you want to try to divide the hull into equal sections. As far as I can tell this is to adjust your planking every so many planks to make certain that you don’t get to far off.

 

The first step is to find the largest bulkhead and measure the width. Next determine how many planks would fit across it (divide by the plank width). You now know how many planks need to fit in the stern, middle and bow.

 

Measure the width of each bulkhead and divide by the number of planks to get the taper amount for each plank at each bulkhead (this can be done on a tick strip and transferred to the bulkhead).

 

For each plank mark the bulkhead location on the plank and use your tick strips to set the taper at each point. Connect these points and then trim to this line. You can then do some beveling on the plank to see how it fits against the previous plank. After all this I shape the plank, usually using edge bending with an iron (I find that works for well for me).

 

I hope this description of my process isn’t to confusing but it has worked for me on my first ship. Feel free to send me a PM if you have any questions!

Edited April 15, 2020 by VTHokiEE
Typos

[Paul_S]

So you measure the whole width and divide it up first?

 

I was placing the battens where they fitted easily and then measuring between them, that might help.

 

Presumably you measure on the centre bulkhead, which woudl leave stealers on the stern if it was wider?

[VTHokiEE]

37 minutes ago, Paul_S said:

So you measure the whole width and divide it up first?

Yes, this is how I do it.

37 minutes ago, Paul_S said:

I was placing the battens where they fitted easily and then measuring between them

I’ve seen this method (or very similar), I’ve used it in the beginning of my planking project from the NRG. I don’t currently have the eye for laying the lines yet so this is trickier for me.

39 minutes ago, Paul_S said:

Presumably you measure on the centre bulkhead, which woudl leave stealers on the stern if it was wider?

That’s right! You may also need drop planks at the bow if the taper would force the planks to be less than half their original width. I’ve used stealers on my current build, almost done with the second planking and it was my first planked ship as well. It was very frustrating at first but stick with it and ask questions, you’ll get there.

[Paul_S]

Awesome thanks.  Ill give it a try on the second planking.  I got the 0.5mm thickness wood recommended comign but went for walnut so it matches the kit components.  Will prob ask for help when it all goes wrong!

[tkay11]

11 hours ago, Paul_S said:

Presumably you measure on the centre bulkhead, which woudl leave stealers on the stern if it was wider?

I'm not clear whether you mean you're only subdividing and marking the centre bulkhead only. Ideally once you've measured the central bulkhead you also subdivide the other bulkheads so the same number of strakes occur along the full length. Of course it's possible that this means you have to let a stealer in or have a dropped plank, but the aim is to have as few as possible. Let's say it's 20 strakes with 4mm width planks at the central bulkhead, then every other bulkhead is subdivided into 20 strakes and that provides the measurement for the thickness of the planks at that point. Of course, the garboard is excluded from this as it will be wider than the other planks. I apologise if you've already figured this out!

 

Tony

[Paul_S]

I was subdividing and marking all of the bulkheads

 

My main issue was where iw as measuring to and from.  I was putting a batten across essentially in a random place where it sat nicely then measuring to that, i guess i misunderstood that part.  I had widely different gaps between each one

[Sea Hoss]

You'll get it.

[Paul_S]

Started by putting the top couple of planks on full then the garboad plank full on the bottom.  THen measured the gaps at each bulkhead and divide into 16.  Spent ages marking out all the ticks on the bulkheads then cutting each plank to these marks and seems to be going better.  I've not put any battens across as it can make sure my progress is correct with the tick marks, is this a bad idea for some other reason.

 

Ive soaked each plank before ironing an edge bend on, havent needed much of a bend front to back yet

 

]

 

Really no idea what the dark patch on the front is, doesnt appear in reality, maybe a shadow?

[tkay11]

Good progress with the planking. You may want to protect the keel and stem with tape before going any further as it looks as though they're already suffering some damage.

 

Tony

[VTHokiEE]

2 hours ago, Paul_S said:

I've not put any battens across as it can make sure my progress is correct with the tick marks, is this a bad idea for some other reason.

I didn’t use battens either, worked out in the end for me. Looks good so far! I would recommend some painters tape or something to protect the keel/stem as well. When you get to the last few planks make certain to remeasure. I added a lot of extra marks on the last plank to get a good measure before finally sanding it to fit.

[Edwardkenway]

Looking good so far, I would have to agree with the above comments about masking off the keel and stem, I didn't on Sherbourne although I did paint it. 

[Paul_S]

So the planking is done and i'm pretty happy with how its turned out.  It's not perfect by any means but didn't need any filler or anything and looks pretty solid.

 

 

 

 

I had the stem and the keel to butt up to and that seemed to help, I didn't mask it off but I think it's ok.  I am planning to put some oil on it which should make it look a little nicer

 

The bit im not too happy with is the back

 

 

Not entirely sure how to tidy this up, the post to put into here doesnt fully cover the mess so don't really know what to do.

 

Im thinking I will put a plank vertically and shape it to cover and hopefully that won't look too garbage. Thoughts?

 

 

[VTHokiEE]

Planking looks great from here! Can you take a picture with the stern post in to see what it looks like?

[Paul_S]

Thats what it looks like with the post in

[VTHokiEE]

That doesn’t look bad from the pictures. If you wanted to fill some of the gaps (mainly the second picture) you could make a sawdust and diluted white glue mix for filler. A little more sanding there may also clean it up to match the other side.

[Paul_S]

So i tried what i suggested.  Fixed a vertical piece over the horrible parts

 

I then cut it back so it was level with the rest of the hull and sanded it down a little, then marked the lines of the planks with my blade in the new piece and sanded a little more

 

To give this

 

 

Which looks way better than it did when i started, probably not perfectly accurate as the top planks especially are standign quite proud of the keel post but it looks prettier

 

Im struggling to see a way to not have this repeat itself in future though.  The false keel is the same thickness as the keel post so when i put 2 thicknesses of planks on it will always stand proud and I couldnt see an easy way to rabbet it.  How do i go about this in future?

[VTHokiEE]

You could sand down the keel outside of the bearding line to create some depth.