Thread Magic vs Beeswax

[drjeckl]

Newbee here, first one up is the Lady Nelson.  And I'm in tool and supplies accumulation mode  For treating the lines/cords/threads for rigging, I cam across a product called Thread Magic.  It appears that it does the same thing as beeswax but maybe less destructive (claim is that it has a pH of 7) , won't melt or freeze.  It also comes in a dispenser.

 

Wondering if anyone has tried Magic Thread.  Thanks

drjeckl

 

[allanyed]

Welcome to MSW Henry and Edward 

The product you posted sounds interesting, I hope there are members here with experience in using it.  They claim it will extend the lifetime of the line, but from what I have been able to find I believe the brand is only a few years old so such claims may be ambiguous.   If this is a silicone based material rather than wax it may be a good thing as silicone is generally associated with being resistant to ozone, UV light, aging,  and extreme temperatures.  

What material is the rigging line you are planning on using, cotton, linen, poly?  

Allan 

 

[druxey]

Certainly the promotional makes this sound promising. Thanks for bringing our attention to it.

[bruce d]

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

If this is a silicone based material rather than wax it may be a good thing as silicone is generally associated with being resistant to ozone, UV light, aging,  and extreme temperatures.  

Here is the link to the active ingredients ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_synthetic_polymers

… and silicon appears to be among the possible ingredients as does Teflon. 

Silicon is banned in my work area, old bad experience. I would be interested to know if it is in the product.

Good find!

[drjeckl]

The type of thread in the Amati LN kit is not specified; I think it's cotton.

 

I'll try to reach to the Thread Magic manufacturer to get a list of the composition of the conditioner.

.drjeckl

[Maury S]

I just ordered it from Joann's Fabrics (on-line, stores closed)  since I needed more Gutermann thread for serving.  $6.58 with coupon for first time order.  We'll see how it works.

Maury

[Justin P.]

Who knows...   if it helps, use it.   There are many things to consider if trying to decide whether this stuff would be better than something else, especially when the list of variables is so long.  I think the best qualifier should be whether you like using it and if it makes your work easier or more successful.   You can mitigate the other factors easily enough after the fact.  

 

Use quality line, make sure you are running it through clean holes and don't subject your model to an overabundance of UV exposure and it will last for a LONG time, beeswax or not. 

 

When I can get back to my lab, I'll take a few samples of line, run them through our artificial aging system and see what happens - just to satisfy my own curiosity.   

 

 

[kurtvd19]

I have used the Thread Magic product for several years - don't remember exactly when I started to use it.  When using bees wax it didn't always adhere to the line evenly and I was always having to drag the line across or through the bees wax multiple times to get good coverage and then between my thumb and index finger to work it into the line.  None of this is necessary with the Thread Magic.

[bartley]

bruce d wrote: "Silicon is banned in my work area, old bad experience. I would be interested to know if it is in the product."

 

Bruce we need to distinguish here between-  silicon, silica and silicone.  Silicon is a chemical element which we don't see much commercially although it is used in the production of transistors. Silica is another matter. This  a compound of silicon and oxygen. It is a mineral and is the main component of sand but it can be produced as a fine powder and is also present in bricks tiles etc, It is certainly dangerous as is any fine powder.  Silicone is a polymer made from a substance called siloxane which is related to silica but is a liquid not a powder.  Silicone should not contain any silica and no free silicon.  It is inert and stable and should be safe in this application.  It has of course been used in breast implants and in this application there is certainly a problem. Silica and silicones are both based on the element silicon but not in its free form.

 

[bruce d]

49 minutes ago, bartley said:

Silicone is a polymer made from a substance called siloxane which is related to silica but is a liquid not a powder. 

Hello Bartley,

Not being a chemist, I must generalize quite a bit. A small amount of silicone completely ruined the finish on three projects underway in my old workplace quite a few years back. Someone had a trace on their hands (left hand from the evidence) and three of the four items we were sweating blood to get ready before a deadline had reactions when painted leaving finger and palm patterns where they had been handled. Besides the commercial crisis because of the need for the whole team to pull two all-nighters in a row to put right the damage there was considerable human fall-out.

The likely source was a can of spray lube for a garage-type door that had just been bought. We had a ceremonial can-burning, Wicker Man style. A friend in electronics then told me his own version of the problem and introduced me to 'silicone nodule migration' (yes, it is a thing).

Hence the NO SILICONE rule when I started putting together my workshop a few years ago in anticipation of woodwork and modelmaking. 

 

I know most people use it and don't have a problem, but any silicone-bearing product in our little corner of heaven has to stay in the house, not the important area where I fiddle around.

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by bruce d

[allanyed]

Bruce,  We had similar issues at a client's factory making nail polish.   A vending machine service tech came in one day and used silicone spray lubricant and it got into the air and in the nearby  manufacturing area.  When the polish was put on, it left fish eyes on the surface.   Fortunately, this turned up in QA testing before the batches from that day were shipped and disaster with end users averted.  No silicone sprays were ever allowed in the factory after that.   If a model is being spray painted, the same thing can occur, so be diligent about having silicone spray products in the model building area.   

Allan

[bruce d]

45 minutes ago, allanyed said:

If a model is being spray painted, the same thing can occur, so be diligent about having silicone spray products in the model building area.   

And on wood that will get a coat of poly, shellac, sealer or just about anything.

 

[el cid]

Big problem with silicone sealant contamination and fiberglass boat hulls...virtually impossible to get a decent paint job.

[bartley]

OK bruce d, I understand now.  I thought you were worried about safety but you are absolutely correct about the effect of silicone on surfaces to be painted or varnished.  That is one of  its purposees of course - to repel things, particularly moisture.  So I am like you I avoid it for the reasons you state not because it is hazardous.

 

John

[drjeckl]

All, I have not heard back from the manufacturer regarding the chemical composition of their product.  But isn't likely that all painting of our models, or at least airbrush painting them, will be completed before rigging, and therefore before using this thread conditioner, whatever it contains, starts?  I'm taking Kurt's endorsement of Thread Magic ("I have used the Thread Magic product for several years") and running with it. 😀

Thanks...jce

[Bob Cleek]

3 hours ago, drjeckl said:

But isn't likely that all painting of our models, or at least airbrush painting them, will be completed before rigging, and therefore before using this thread conditioner, whatever it contains, starts?

Except that silicone is the corona virus of finish coatings. Once it gets into the air, it spreads and then settles and thereafter is always there. Microscopic dust specks of silicone will invariably create "fisheyes" in fine paint and varnish finishes and are near-impossible to remove. A work area contaminated with silicone is very difficult to decontaminate. I, too, belong to the "no silicone in my shop" club. "Flaming" thread also works well to eliminate "fuzz" on scale line. Using a proper type of polyester based thread has the same qualities without having to put anything at all on the line.

 

Beeswax works fine

Edited April 29, 2020 by Bob Cleek