Pen Duick by BobG - Artesania Latina - 1:28

[BobG]

54 minutes ago, Cabbie said:

For myself the question I would be asking "what is the proper way that a real boat like this would be planked?"

I believe the AL kit represents the Pen Duick I after it was restored by Eric Tabarly in the late 1950's. Since the original hull had rotted he replaced it with a resin hull. It would be interesting to know how the older entirely wood, racing sailboats were planked though. 

[hof00]

 

Hi Chap,

Yup, "Position the Bulwarks so they protrude 5.0mm above the Deck."

This will give you fixings  for the Bulwarks to the Bulkheads as well as the edge of the Deck.

 

(I did forget the Bulwark Strake is wider than the rest of the Planking material.)

 

So, my memory was both right and wrong, but, yes, I utilised the A/L instructions but didn't get too precious.... 🙂

 

Thanks for the "Memory Jog."

 

Cheers....HOF.

[BobG]

I spent some time researching how the hulls of older racing yachts were planked and came across a website for the United States Vintage Model Yacht Group. They have some publications that can be purchased for downloading in digital PDF files. I purchased and downloaded two of them: Building Planked Models by Charles Farley and Yankee III by Earl Boebert. They are both very interesting and informative.

 

The Farley publications essentially shows a planking method for yachts like the Pen Duick that is very similar to what the AL instructions recommend. So I will essentially do the hull planking following the AL instructions as brief as they are. Farley mentions spiling for racing yachts but has this to say about it: "Planking is not so difficult as some textbooks imply. Spiling and other terrifying terms may be forgotten."

 

The United States Vintage Model Yacht Group is a very interesting website with lots of information etc that I may be of interest to ship modelers in general and especially those modelers interesting in vintage yachts. Here is a link to their website: https://usvmyg.org

 

The hull planks provided by the Al kit are 2 mm ramin strips. Unfortunately, they are much too thick and stiff and I'm sure that they will not be easy to bend and twist. In contrast, the hull planks provided in Syren's Medway Longboat were 1/32" thick Alaskan Yellow Cedar and they were very pliable and could be edge bent and twisted with dry heat alone. Planking the hull of the Pen Duick will certainly be a different kind of experience and I hope it doesn't get too frustrating!

 

I made another small mistake when I added the 1.5 mm walnut coamings to a couple of the hatch openings. I failed to read the directions thoroughly and just assumed that they would be flush with the deck. They are not. However inadequate these instructions are, and they are very inadequate, they did say that the coamings should be 2 mm above the deck level. I've decided to just leave them flush with the deck since the hatches themselves will cover them completely. I think the only purpose for them in the model would be to help make aligning the placement of the hatch structures easier but that can easily be done with careful measurement as well.

 

I do have a question about the hatch skylight covers. The kit has brass bars running parallel to each other fore and aft over the open skylight of the hatch covers. I would assume that on the real Pen Duick that there was clear plexiglass or glass that under the brass bars so that the hatches would be sealed from the elements. That's seems logical to me but I could be wrong...??

 

So, if there is clear plexiglass or glass in the skylight, how could that be simulated in the model? Is clear, thin acetate available to use for something like this? I'd like to usesome clear material there and not just have the hatch skylight covers open as the kit shows if that would be more authentic.

 

You can see how the skylights are left open to the elements in the kit. Surely there would be some clear window material such as plexiglass or glass to seal the skylights on the real Pen Duick...?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[egkb]

Hi Bob .. Re the Glass simulation , I have seen folks on here use the flat 'stiff' plastic part of packaging that some stuff you buy comes in (they even save it up for later use) you can get heavy and thin versions ..  You know the stuff, some of the 'square' 9v batteries come with the cardboard at the back and the battery in a clear plastic 'blister' attached to it ..   Jeez I had to wrack the brain to come up with an example that may apply for ye chaps across the pond ..   Have to go for a lie down now after that   

 

Hope That Helps

 

Eamonn

[sticker]

Hi bob ,you may find that the plastic from a 2 litre pop (soda )   bottle is very thin and is easy to get ,,,, great work so far  coming along nicely

 

[BobG]

7 hours ago, egkb said:

  Jeez I had to wrack the brain to come up with an example that may apply for ye chaps across the pond ..   Have to go for a lie down now after that   

I hope you had a nice nap, Eamonn! 💤

[BobG]

The bulwarks are 1.5 x 8 mm ramin strips and the hull planks are 2 x 5 mm ramin strips. These strips are, in my opinion, way too thick and they are difficult to bend and twist. I guess I've been spoiled by the 1/32" Alaskan Yellow Cedar planks that were used in the Medway Longboat by Syren. They were easy to work with and could be bent and twisted using dry heat only. 

 

I don't like the idea of having to wrestle with planking strips and having to resort to soaking or steaming them to get them to follow the shape of the hull nicely. I'd rather use dry heat and to do that I will need thinner strips to work with so I've ordered some 1 x 5 mm limewood strips for the hull planks and 1 x 8 mm limewood strips for the bulwarks. They will be much easier to work with and, if necessary, I could even double plank the hull although don't think I would need to do that. 

 

On the real Pen Duick the part of the bulwark that extends above the deck is teak or mahogany but the kit provides ramin wood for the bulwarks which is a blond color. Since I will now be using 1 x 8 mm limewood for the bulwarks, I plan to line the inside of them with 0.5 mm mahogany. That way the mahogany margin deck plank, bulwark and gunwales will all be mahogany which looks more authentic to the real boat.

 

So I will have a brief respite until the new wood strips arrive. 

[hof00]

Hi Chap,

Regarding Glazing, I have heard of others utilizing Microscope "Slide Glass."

 

from my perspective, I didn't worry, just painted the Below Decks Black, you cannot tell, anyway, I can't once its in a Cabinet. 🙂

 

Here's some photos of the Skylights, Etc.  (I'm pretty sure you have these but just in case....)

(The Majority of these photos are the Deck Furniture "Placed" on prior to Bulwarks/Hull Planking.)

 

I also "Articulated" Skylights, Forward Hatch and Companionway "Booby" Hatch just because I could and I felt the scale demanded it. 

(They open and close but the model is in a wood/glass case Can I see me accessing these? Not really.... 🙂

 

Anyway, Your Pen Duick is coming along really well, looking forward to you next installment.

 

Cheers....HOF.

 

 

[Fright]

Wow! Beautiful work on the decking and skylight! This really is a beauty. 

[BobG]

8 hours ago, hof00 said:

Anyway, Your Pen Duick is coming along really well, looking forward to you next installment.

You've set the standard pretty high, Harry.  I hope my model doesn't turn out to be the ugly step-sister! 🥺

[hof00]

Hi Chap,

You rendition is looking really good!!

Don't worry about my build in a past life, a few years ago,

I am very sure that your Pen Duick will definitely not be an ugly sister!!

 

This is your very own piece of model Ship building/marine art.... 🙂

 

Take care and take your time....

 

Always happy to offer advice if I can do so....

 

(Counting down to Move in date, I just hope the ships come in, in one piece....)

 

Cheers….HOF

 

 

 

 

[BobG]

I've made a little bit of progress in the last couple of days. The kit comes with 2 mm thick ramin wood for hull planks and the bulwarks. In my opinion, that's much too thick to nicely work with. They were difficult to bend and twist so I ordered some 1 mm limewood strips from Ages of Sail to replace the kit strips.

 

While I was waiting for my order to arrive, I did a little bit of work on the deck hatches. The hatches are made from dark walnut with very open grain and the laser cut parts have heavy char. I would have preferred something more fine grained but they look ok.

 

I also began planking the hull. The instructions say to add the bulwarks first so that they rise 5 mm above the deck. I'm using the new 1 mm x 8 mm limewood for the bulwarks so 3 mm of the bulwark needs to extend down below the sheer of the deck. 3 mm of the bulkhead frames does not provide much surface area for the bulwarks to be glued to. So I decided to skip adding the bulwarks first and go ahead and plank the hull. This way, when I do add the bulwarks, I'll have the first plank for the bottom of the bulwark to rest on for aligning it 3 mm below the deck. It will also make gluing them on easier as well since I will be able to glue them to top of the first plank and the bulkhead frame as well.

 

I lined off the bulkhead frames 3 mm below the deck to guide the placement of the first plank. Using the new 1 mm x 5 mm limewood strips for the planking is a great modification to this kit instead of using the 2 mm ramin strips. They bend and twist nicely and have a smooth finish. I have finished 5 planks on each side and I have been able to bend and twist them to lay flush against the bulkhead frames by hand so far. No soaking, no steam and no heat was needed and I used CA so no clamping was necessary.

 

The planking is going well but I am also deviating from the instructions for how to do the planking. The AL instructions have you place 4 planks on each side of the hull and then, rather randomly, place a plank in the middle of the hull and continue planking from there to the keel. Then they have you come back and fill in the middle. Why? I don't know. At this point I'm just going to continue planking down towards the keel. So I'll continue in this manner unless I see any problems arising.

 

 

 

[hof00]

Nice!! 🙂

[BobG]

29 minutes ago, hof00 said:

Nice!! 🙂

Thanks Harry. How's the move going?

[hof00]

Hi Chap,

Thanks for asking, it's been a bit of a journey and sitting around trying to keep busy isn't the greatest of pastimes…. 🙂

Settlement tomorrow and move in Wednesday....

Hopefully, there won't be any damage to the contents, (Inc. Ship Models....)

It'll be nice to get back into some Modeling once the cats are settled and the house is organised.

 

Cheers....HOF.

[Justin P.]

She's looking beautiful.  That deck is going to pop if you decide to put a finish down.   What were you using to take those photos (of the deck)?   Such an unusually and beautiful little vessel. 

[BobG]

1 hour ago, Justin P. said:

She's looking beautiful.  That deck is going to pop if you decide to put a finish down.   What were you using to take those photos (of the deck)?   Such an unusually and beautiful little vessel. 

Thanks Justin. I had a coat of Satin Wipe-on-Poly on the deck in the finished photos of it. I don't know a lot about various finishes. Chuck uses WOP a lot and I used it on my Medway Longboat so I've used it here also. I need to experiment with various finishes and learn more about them. 

 

I just use my iPhone and tweak them a little in the phone photo app. I'm too lazy to get out my DSLR and take photos for my build log. 

[Justin P.]

2 hours ago, BobG said:

I need to experiment with various finishes and learn more about them. 

 

I just use my iPhone and tweak them a little in the phone photo app. I'm too lazy to get out my DSLR and take photos for my build log. 

Yep, Ive only ever used wipe-on-poly.   I know other folks use different things, but Poly seems to have that non-bulky character that I like.   

 

I only use my DSLR for final shots, iPhone for everything else.   Although they are getting so good, Im not sure I need to use the dslr anymore. 

[Cabbie]

Hello Bob

You are moving along very well, the deck fittings really look the part

and the planking is looking top notch as well.

Chris

[BobG]

Thanks for the likes everyone.

 

After 3 days I finished planking the hull and sanded it up to 320. I deviated from the AL instructions and simply planked the hull from the deck down to the bottom of the keel. I used 1 x 5 mm limewood instead of the 2 x 5 mm ramin wood that came with the kit. I'm really happy that I used thinner planking strips since it made the job much easier and fun to do. 

 

I wasn't trying to get every plank perfect since the hull will be painted but I did want the planks to run very smoothly since the lines of the hull are so beautiful. I used CA exclusively primarily on the bulkheads only but I did add some to the plank edges when necessary to get a tight fit. I was able to fit the first 5 or 6 planks by hand but, as the planks needed to twist and bend more, I used dry heat from a hair dryer and I also used my Amati plank bending tool for a few, short, sharp bends at the end of the planks where they meet the rudder area.

 

I ran into a few of the typical problems along the way but I can't imagine planking a hull without any difficulties at all! I have a few thin gaps and I needed to patch a couple of areas along the razor edge of the keel. I ran thin CA between the edges of a few planks that weren't as tight as I wanted them. The thin CA wicks its way along between the planks and then I can then gently push the planks together and get a strong bong. I glued my fingers to the planks too many times and managed to snap one plank also but, altogether, it went well and I'm pleased with how it came out. 

 

The lines of the Pen Duick are gorgeous and I eyeballed the hull and ran my hands over it a lot while sanding it trying to get a smooth flow of the lines and symmetrical on each side. I also kept checking the razor edge of the keel making sure I was keeping dead straight.

 

I'll put some filler on it tomorrow to fill the cracks and sand it until it's as smooth as a baby's bottom. After that, I'll prime and sand it and try to get it as nice and smooth as I can before painting it. I'll be using my new airbrush for the very first time to paint the hull but I'm going to practice with it before I commit to painting it.

.

 

Thanks for stopping by.

 

 

 

 

[hof00]

Nice!! 🙂

 

If your not completely happy with the Filler, you could use  automotive "Spray Putty."

My experience is that it fills the Grain and sands effortlessly and gives a "Glass" smooth finish. (once you complete the Bulwarks of course.)

(Have a go on some scrap stuff.)

 

Just a suggestion.

 

Cheers....HOF.

[Nunnehi (Don)]

Bob,

 

It looks great! I’m really looking forward to watching your progress!

 

Don

[BobG]

8 hours ago, hof00 said:

If your not completely happy with the Filler, you could use  automotive "Spray Putty."

My experience is that it fills the Grain and sands effortlessly and gives a "Glass" smooth finish. (once you complete the Bulwarks of course.)

(Have a go on some scrap stuff.)

Thanks, Harry, I've never heard of automotive "Spray Putty" but I'm curious about it and will look into it. I have only used Elmer's Wood Filler sparingly before and it was ok but kind of messy. It's the kind that goes on purple and changes color to yellowish white when it's dry.

 

I forgot to say in my post that I will add the bulwarks before continuing with filling and sanding the hull though. There isn't much surface area from the deck down 3 mm on each bulkhead for the bulwarks to adhere to so I think this step could be tricky. I will probably go ahead and sand the contour of the bulwarks from the stern to the bow also and perhaps shape the cutout area of the bulwarks at the bow before continuing with finishing the hull. I'll make my decisions as I go and hope I don't mess it up!

 

Cheers!

[BobG]

6 hours ago, nunnehi said:

t looks great! I’m really looking forward to watching your progress!

Thanks, Don. I'll be following along with your Winnie build. I'm assuming that's what you are working on now...? Who knows, your build may give me the confidence and inspiration to tackle the Winnie sooner than later as well...

[BobG]

The AL instructions said to add the bulwarks before planking the hull but I decided to plank the hull first and then add the bulwarks. This allowed me to also have the upper edge of the first plank for supporting the alignment of the bulwarks and gluing them in place. I also used 1 x 8 mm limewood strips for the bulwarks instead of the kit supplied 2 x 8 mm ramin wood strips. The thinner limewood strips were much easier to bend around the hull and along the sheer of the deck. I used Titebond Quick & Thick PVA for this step since I knew I would need more time to make adjustments than I would have using CA. As expected, it was a bit tricky to get a nice tight fit but I took my time and they turned out well.

 

The bulwarks were glued on with 5 mm extending above the deck. They have a curved cutout on each side at the bow. I used my Dremel and sandpaper to shape these cutouts. I also needed to make a tiny "nose piece" at the point of the bow so it wouldn't be blunt. The bowsprit will extend through the bulwarks at the very point of the bow and the "nose piece" will finish up the rise of the razor edge of the keel and support the bottom of the bowsprit.

 

On the real Pen Duick the bulwarks are mahogany or teak and, since I used limewood for the bulwarks, I decided to line the insides of them with some 0.5 x 3 mm mahogany strips using PVA. So I will now have mahogany margin planks, bulwarks and cap rails which will be more authentic to the real Pen Duick.

 

The next step was to taper the bulwarks from a full 5 mm at the bow to being level and flush with the curved, walnut piece that finishes the deck at the stern. In order to do this I used a soft sander block with adhesive sandpaper that spanned the width of the deck and carefully sanded the taper from the bow to the stern.

 

Finally, I sanded the deck and the bulwarks lightly with 220 sandpaper and added a coat of Satin Wipe-on-Poly and I'm pleased with how everything looks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

[egkb]

That's Beautiful Bob ! Jeez that last photos shows the lines wonderfully.

 

Eamonn

[BobG]

Thanks for the likes and for stopping by everyone. Much appreciated.

 

I completed the rudder today and I'm happy with it after I dry fitted it to the hull. It always seems to take me longer to complete a step than I think it will. Of course, it could be that I'm just plain slow!

 

The AL instructions tell you to drill a 4 mm hole through the deck and down through the keel. They say nothing about how to accomplish this. To be able to do that and have the drill bit stay centered and at the correct angle so that the rudder post and the rudder line up exactly seemed to me to have a high likelihood for a major error. It would not be good for the hole to end up misaligned. 

 

Harry (hof00) was able to do it on his Pen Duick by using his fingers to twist the drill bit and cut the hole up through the deck as it lay against the keel to and drilling upwards through the deck. So I thought I would give it a go and started using my fingers to rotate the drill bit as it lay agains the keel where the rudder will be attached but I quickly abandoned the idea. It was practically impossible to keep the drill bit centered since it was so awkward trying to twist the drill bit with my fingers and keep the alignment correct. I had visions of the hole cutting through the deck in the wrong place and so I said, "Forget it." I'm sure I would have ended up with blisters on my fingers as well! 

 

I really don't need a rudder that actually works since I'm building the model for display only so I went to Plan B. I made the rudder with a short shaft so that it could be inserted into the hull about 5 mm. Even so, I had to do quite a bit of sanding on the hull and the keel to get the rudder to fit nicely within the lines of the hull. The rudder will have a pin on the bottom that will be inserted into the little nub on the bottom of the keel. It could actually pivot but I'll just glue it and have a fixed rudder. I'll paint the hull and the rudder before gluing it on the boat.

 

The first photo below shows how you would have to drill the rudder shaft hole up from the bottom using the keel to keep the angle correct. Of course, you would have to keep the drill accurately centered also. Notice how you would have to twist the drill with your fingers while barely being able to grasp the the drill bit. I suppose you could try and drill the hole blindly from the deck down but it would be a long shot for it to come out in the right place through the keel. All I can say to Harry is, "Congratulations man, you managed to do it!" 

 

 

 

 

[vaddoc]

You ve made very good progress Bob. I really like your planking job, I would think that as this boat is not very large quite a lot of spilling would be needed but you did a fantastic job, pretty impressive considering you used straight planks! Really nice. Did you have to bend the strips across their width?

Elmer's filler is the one I use after trying many alternatives. Try using a razor (the one that they use to cut carpets) on your hull, you ll be amazed how smooth it leaves it but take care with 1 mm thickness, much quicker than sand paper too.

Maybe also in future consider maple for planking, it is fantastic and holds an edge that lime does not.

This is a lovely boat and lends it self to even larger scale. I am looking forward for the rest of the journey.

[Justin P.]

Looking absolutely beautiful Bob.   Great job with the rudder.   You are really tempting me to pick one of these up.

[BobG]

On 6/13/2020 at 7:28 AM, vaddoc said:

You ve made very good progress Bob. I really like your planking job, I would think that as this boat is not very large quite a lot of spilling would be needed but you did a fantastic job, pretty impressive considering you used straight planks! Really nice. Did you have to bend the strips across their width?

Thanks very much, vaddoc. I didn't edge bend any of the strips and all of them are full length. I did need to use a hair dryer to bend and twist some of the planks so they would lay flat as they curved and twisted at the stern. I chamfered the top edge of some of the planks in a few sports but, since I knew I would be using wood filler and painting the hull, I wasn't overly concerned with small gaps. It made a big difference using the thinner 1 mm limewood instead of the 2 mm ramin that was supplied in the kit.

 

On 6/13/2020 at 7:28 AM, vaddoc said:

Elmer's filler is the one I use after trying many alternatives. Try using a razor (the one that they use to cut carpets) on your hull, you ll be amazed how smooth it leaves it but take care with 1 mm thickness, much quicker than sand paper too.

I use Elmer's Wood Filler also but I've never tried using carpet razor though. I'll have to give it a go.

 

On 6/13/2020 at 7:28 AM, vaddoc said:

Maybe also in future consider maple for planking, it is fantastic and holds an edge that lime does not.

I was pleased with the limewood but I've heard very good things about maple also. I don't know where I could get strips of it though and I don't have a table saw yet so I can't mill my own.

 

On 6/13/2020 at 7:28 AM, vaddoc said:

This is a lovely boat and lends it self to even larger scale. I am looking forward for the rest of the journey.

I agree. I think this is one of the most beautiful sailboats I've ever seen. I like it so much that I may consider some of the Amati America's Cup Yachts in the future and, if I ever learn to scratch build, a larger model of the Pen Duick with lots of authentic details would be wonderful.

 

Thanks very much for coming along for the ride!