Quality of Corel kits?

[Landlubber Mike]

Just out of curiosity, what is the quality of Corel kits - materials, plans, instructions?  I might have the opportunity to buy some kits at a relative discount to retail, and thought a few of the ships looked like interesting builds.  I'm looking to semi-scratch/replace kit wood with better wood, so I'm less concerned with the quality of the kit supplied wood, but more interested in the fittings.

 

Thanks!

[chris watton]

The quality of the materials and components in Corel kits is on the whole very good - up there with the best mainstream manufacturers.

[Ferit]

Me to, I think as Chris Watton, I am quite satisfied with the Corel's kit. I decided even on Corel again for my second build. Many years ago I have bought my kit which has not been laser cut, I have had to make some adjustements. I don't know if today their kits are being produced with laser cut materials...

[AntonyUK]

Hi.

My views are different from the others.

But seeing you have asked..

 

Not so happy with Corel HMS Victory cross section.

Instructions are very poor. And Corel left out a lot of detail that could have been added.

The wood was very good. But some of the fittings were unusable with out a lot of modification.

Hammock stays we're trashed as the holes were at completely the wrong angle.

Rigging blocks were trashed.

Not all the fittings were there according to the list supplied.

 

I don't normally diss things but this kit was poor.

 

Regards Antony.

[robboxxx]

Corel is a good manufacturer of kits. However...... they use a kind of pressed wood material for their ornaments. Others use brass etching or lost wax castings. Nothing wrong with that, It is just what you prefer......... I must admit that my experience with corel is more than 10 years ago.

 

They have indeed some great models.

 

I have build also the Victory cross section with no problems but I always  look at a kit as starting point and enhance them were ever I think it is needed.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks everyone, that's very helpful!

[ccoyle]

I built the Corel Flying Fish.  The only kind thing I can say about it is that I finished it, albeit modified (see here).  The fittings were deplorable -- a mishmash of off-the-shelf items that often bore little or no resemblance to any real-life structures.  I get the sense that with Corel, you get what you pay for, i.e. more expensive kits are better products.

[Landlubber Mike]

Good to know, thank you.  Ccoyle, very nice Ghost!

[WackoWolf]

I also am not a big fan of there kits either. But this is just my option, others have had good things to say about there kits.

[bogeygolpher]

Mike,

 

I just completed the Corel Eagle and on three different occasions I had to contact Model Expo for missing or broken parts. 

If it had not been for the Model Expo guarantee I probably would not have finished the Eagle.  They are fairly inexpensive kits for a reason.

 

Good luck.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks for all that info.  I may end up reconsidering as I'm ok with bashing the wood components, but good fittings are a critical aspect of what I'm hoping to get in a kit.

[Landlubber Mike]

Well, looks like I won an eBay auction for the Corel Unicorn - that kit looks like a nice one, so hopefully the fittings are ok.  I had put in a low ball bid on eBay, and managed to come away with it for a relatively low amount.

 

Thanks to everyone who responded.  I also have the Amati Pegasus on the shelf at the moment, but I think I'll start with the Unicorn as I want to practice kit bashing and using specialty woods.  I'll be sure to start a build log once my Badger is finished (which, I'm close to the finish line).

 

Thanks again!

[ianmajor]

Mike,

 

I have a build log for the Unicorn on the go (link below) which may be helpful. On the second page there is a picture of the Unicorn made by Danny Page which is very nicely executed. There is a lovely completed Unicorn by Peter Visser in the Gallery at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/227-hms-unicorn/  plus in there is another illustrated in Bob Riddoch's thread on the 38th Rope Exhibition in Japan, see http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1710-38th-the-rope-exhibition-tokyo-japan/page-2?hl=japan about 6 photos down. 

 

There were two other Unicorn build logs by Peter V and another but sadly these disappeared with MSW 1.0. 

 

Hope this is helpful.

[harlequin]

Corel on the whole are quality kits.......I have completed a few although HMS Greyhound was not so hot.

[Landlubber Mike]

Ian, AVS and Harlequin, thanks very much for your thoughts

 

Ian, thanks for the links.  The Unicorn does seem like it has the potential to make for a nice model.  We'll see how well I end up doing with it.  Your log is a real inspiration, and hopefully I can pull something off half as nice as yours.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Landlubber Mike

[harlequin]

Landlubber Mike, check out my finished Greyhound in the completed kits forum. Although the kit was not as good as corels usual standard, it still produced a decent finished model.

[guitarguy687]

I am currently building the Corel Victory Cross Section. My experience is the wood quality is great, most fittings are O.K. (not great not bad). Many of the rigging supplies (blocks, etc.) are either trash or require quite a bit of cleanup, the rigging line however is decent quality. The plans for the model are pretty good, I would have liked a few more angles of certain things but they are workable. The written instructions however are trash. I think Corel hired a drunk monkey to write them with the intention of being vague. 

 

Assuming most Corel kits are set up similarly, I would recommend if you are primarily a visual learner. You have to be ok with plans, and going out on the internet to look things up in pictures, build logs, etc.

 

If it helps, the instructions remind me of a couple billings boats kits i have done, maybe something to compare to.  

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi Harlequin, very nice Greyhound!  

 

Hi Thomas, thanks for the info.  The Unicorn should arrive later this week, so I'll take a peek at the box components and instructions and report back.  I paid fairly little for the kit, so I figure it will be a good training model for me while I attempt more serious kit bashing.

[ianmajor]

Mike,

 

I agree with Brian on the planking. The hull has two layers of planking. For the outer layer below the gun ports the kit supplies mahogany. You can make a reasonable job with this but it is coarse grain and prone to splitting. The other planking was fine particularly if you are not going to paint your model. 

 

I found the Unicorn instructions OK - they are unintentionally amusing in places. There are plenty of good non scale diagrams to augment the 2 plan sheets and instructions. There are errors and contradictions - though these are easy to spot.

 

The historical notes - best have a good laugh at these then throw them away they are total nonsense - Corel appear to be confusing 2 different Unicorn ships giving the model a bit of an identity crisis.

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi Ian, 

 

It looks like my Unicorn is scheduled to arrive today.  I'll take a look at it tonight and give my thoughts.  I was planning on replacing most of the kit wood with Hobbymill or Lumberyard wood.  It helps that I was able to get the kit off eBay for a very low amount.  

 

I like the modifications that you are pursuing with your build.  Do you have particular plans or references that you are using to help guide you?  If you posted them on your build, I apologize for missing it.  I'm actually thinking of trying my hand at "painting with wood" and not using any paint at all to the extent practicable, so I'm curious as to the color scheme of the ship (for example, were the inner bulwarks painted red, can the mast tops and wales be black, etc.), and of any additional deck details beyond those in the kit's plans.  

 

It sounds like Corel is a bit confused about the history of the ship and what the kit is supposed to represent.  All indications seem to point to the Lyme class.  I have the Chapelle book which shows the profile plan of a Lyme class ship, and noticed that there were five gunports towards the stern of the ship versus the four on the Corel kit (I think you picked up on this on your build).  I'm not all that concerned with historical accuracy with this being only my second model, and regardless of such, it seems that the ultimate model when finished is quite beautiful.

 

It's going to be a few more months before I finish my Badger, as I have 2-month old twins at home.  Thankfully they are sleeping very well in the evening, so I should be able to get back to the shipyard in the very near future (I just need to find the energy to work!).  If you are open to it, I would love to stay in touch with you and trade ideas on improving the kit (although you are obviously very far ahead of me in your build so the exchange may be more one-sided).  I very much appreciate all your thoughts and comments to date!

[Landlubber Mike]

My Unicorn kit arrived today.  I was actually quite pleased by the kit components.  The quality of the wood seems very good (much better than the splintering walnut I had in my Caldercraft Badger kit), and the fittings in general are nice.  The only ones I was less impressed with were the the transom and stern gallery buildup pieces - interestingly, there was a notice in the kit that these were replaced by britannia metal pieces.  One nice feature was that the gun carriages are mostly assembled (and are assembled well).  

 

The instructions don't seem all that bad, and the diagrams and plans are actually quite good at an initial glance.  There isn't a 60-page manual like with the Badger, but I think the pictures in the plans more than make up for that (in fact, I think the pictures are better than text).

 

So, I'm very much looking forward to starting the kit once I finally complete the Badger.

[ianmajor]

Mike,

 

Some of the references that I used are in my 4th posting in the Unicorn log.

 

I hope you start a log on your Unicorn soon. I would be interested in seeing some photos of the transom, gun carriage and other components before construction starts. 

 

The only paint on my ship is around the metal/plastic moldings so I can't comment on paint schemes. However if you look at Peter Visser's Unicorn in the gallery (link further back up this thread) you will see an example of a model that has been painted. I am sure if you do start a log Peter will look in and offer advice (he is very helpful and supportive).

 

There was another Unicorn build log which was lost with MSW 1.0 from which I have a few photos. I would like to credit the builder but unfortunately I don't know his name or if he is still a member. His log showed construction of the hull. (If you recognize the build as yours, perhaps we can prevail upon you to publish other photos of the build.    ) This example was painted around the deck areas but mainly used the natural colour of the supplied woods externally.

 

Here are some photos taken from that log.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2013 by ianmajor

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi Ian, thanks for the reply.  I'll take a picture of those pieces this evening and upload them here so you can see how the newer kit differs from yours.  I probably won't start the build log for another couple of months, as I should probably stay disciplined to finish my Badger before starting the Unicorn.

 

Thanks for the pictures of the model above.  Do you happen to know if this ship was copper plated, or white stuff was used? 

 

I'm thinking of approaching my build similarly, likely using a color scheme similar to what you see with other Nelson's navy ships of that period like the frigate Diana.  This would entail using more black for pieces like the transom, mast tops and wales, red for the bulwark planking and cannon carriages, etc.  Here's an example:

 

http://www.jotika-ltd.com/Pages/1024768/CKit_Diana_02.htm

 

I have some time before I will start the build, which gives me time to think about and plan for how I will approach the build:

 

1.  Rather than use paint, I will try to use either stains or colored specialty woods for the colors.  I prefer the natural oiled or other finish of woods.  I see that some of the parts need to be scratch built, so I'll have to build parts anyway.  What will be a tough decision is what to do with the cannon carriages - they are very nicely pre-built and finished using a dark wood like walnut.  If I want red bulwark planking, the cannon carriages would either need to be scratch built to match or maybe I just leave them the natural walnut color with red bulwarks.

 

2.  The figurehead, which is a bright gold metal, will need to be painted.  I might try a tarnished bronze look or paint it to look like it was carved out of wood.  I really don't like white paint on models - even using Admiralty paints "dull white," the white comes off as too garish for me.

 

3.  I might try to build the transom and stern galleries from scratch, but maybe using the ornamentation from those parts which I can paint gold or some similar color.  That should be pretty challenging though, particularly if I decide to build the windows from scratch to avoid using white paint.

 

4.  If this ship was copper plated, I might just keep the natural wood.  If white stuff was used, I might try to simulate it using a very light/white wood like holly.  I saw someone else do that under the old MSW, I think on a Fair American build, which I thought was fantastic.  Probably way out of my skill level, but I might try.

 

5.  I'll have to decide whether to try using ebony for black areas, or using stains or dyes.  I bought a Varathane ebony stain recently, which I'll test out first as I've heard about the various challenges of using ebony (hard on tools, black toxic dust that is hard to clean up, etc.).

 

6.  The kit blocks look ok, but maybe a tad bit oversized.  I might replace them with better blocks.

 

7.  Depending on how my Badger's furled sails come out, I might try and add sails to the model.

 

 

Ouch, looking back at this list, that's a lot of modifications to pursue.  I purchased the kit for a very good price (Model Expo recently put up a bunch of Corel kits for auction on eBay which sold for pretty low amounts relative to even retail sale prices), so I think the Admiral will be ok with the added expenditures - that is, if she should happen to find out 

Edited June 20, 2013 by Landlubber Mike

[ianmajor]

Mike,

 

The Unicorn above had no coppering or paint below the water line. I think Peter's has the lower part of the hull painted white. It is stunning.

 

Another area of modification that is worth looking at is the planking above the Upper deck (main gun deck). If built as per the instructions you have basewood planking, with "decorative" planking on the outer and inner faces. The joins between the planks on the three layers deliberately do not line up which gives the bulwarks their integrity. The problem with this arrangement is that all the grain runs fore and aft so the bulwarks are very flexible. Mine have a tendency to bow out as a result. It is worth considering using some form of vertical ribs in this area (as in the POF builds) along with planking the inside of the gun deck. This would involve some modifications fairly early on in the build. 

 

Enough of my off topic ramblings. I will watch out for your build log and grab a front seat.

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi Ian, thanks for the info and the tip.  I'll keep that in mind when I start the build.  

 

Do you happen to know whether the ship has 32 cannons?  My kit came with 32, but I thought it was a ship that had fewer cannons.  I'm assuming that this is the Unicorn the kit is supposed to represent?  If so, it looks like there are twenty-four 9-pounders, four 3-pounders on the quarterdeck and 12 swivel guns?  I think the kit only came with 32 9-pounders.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Unicorn_(1748)

Edited June 7, 2013 by Landlubber Mike

[petervisser]

Hi Mike,

 

I have built the Unicorn and finished it only last year. As for the guns, Corel have not really provided the hardare to make an accurate model. As far as I know those frigates were designed to carry 24 x 9 pdr. guns, but then added 4 x 3 pdr. guns to the quarter deck. This is how I built it. I bought some after market guns which were smaller than the guns provided to indicate the smaller calibre. I just eye-balled it and did not do any real calculations.

 

As for the rest of the model, I improvised here and there to make the model appear more accurate to a frigate of the time. As posted earlier, Corel have cut some corners and taken some liberty in designing a kit that is less than authentic. However, the basic materials are of a good standard as you have discovered with your new kit. Now its up to each individual model builder to put the bits together to his or her personal satisfaction. I myself bought some better blocks here an there, used different rigging thread, changed out the ship's wheel and altered the deck layout a bit. All in all a very satisfying project and one I am proud to display.

 

Good luck with your own Unicorn, and I will look for your build log when you get around to her. If I can help in any way, just let me know.

 

Peter

 

p.s. Thanks Ian for all your kind words.

[ianmajor]

Mike,

 

I think Peter has covered the cannon. I have bought some Caldercraft swivel guns. They are actually 1:64 scale so slightly too long (by about 2mm too long). They are next on my construction plan so I will let you know how they work out.

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi Peter and Ian, thanks for the info.  Thanks also for the offer to help - I'm sure I'll need all the assistance I can get.

 

Interestingly, Corel put 1790 on the kit box, when the Unicorn that the kit was supposedly based on was broken up in 1771    I'll have to check out the modifications that you guys did.  I'm less concerned about historical accuracy and more about having a nice model with lots of interesting details.

 

Speaking of details, was it strange to you guys that the model does not have a small boat of some kind?  I might look into whether I can add one or not.

 

Ian, here are some pictures as requested.  If you'd like others, please let me know!

Edited June 8, 2013 by Landlubber Mike

[ianmajor]

Mike,

 

Interesting photos. The transom/gallery detail is much changed over the earlier variants of the kit (mine was produced 1974). The components to go above and below the galleries are the same. The windows on the early kits were separate blue plastic castings. All in all they look much improved. 

 

Changes have taken place on the artwork of the box containing the kit. On the first kits there was no mention of scale (in fact nowhere in the instructions was scale mentioned - so I had to calculate it) nor was there any date. The only date for the ship appears on plan sheet 1 where it states the ship was 1762! There was a British Unicorn in 1771 but that was a smaller post ship. I think Coral got themselves confused because they believed that the Unicorn of the model was built to a design of Chapman when in fact he documented the design after the event. Hence their historical info is pure rubbish.   

 

My view is that Coral have confused two Unicorn frigates resulting in a hull that is mid 18th century with an early 19th century deck area design from a much larger ship. (Still a very nice model though).    

 

Regarding the lack of ship's boats - this may have been part of a simplification of the kit design.

 

There are practical issues. I am using pictures of the NMM 1761 model of Lowestoft as a modeling guide. (See http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66300.html ). The Lowestoft class of frigates were direct, slightly larger descendants of the Lyme class. These pictures show a ship's boat stowed in the waist area. The NMM plans of the Lyme show the Corel model has an inaccurate waist area. On the Corel model it is fairly enclosed and if you place a ship's boat there it would completely obstruct access to the main gun deck - in fact it would not fit between the fife rails.

 

I am going to open up the waist area to allow more interesting detail, eg stove, chain pumps plus this will allow me to add a boat.

 

Note the contemporary NMM Lowestoft model is white below the waterline. 

Edited June 8, 2013 by ianmajor

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi again Ian,

 

I guess I'm fortunate that Corel made some improvements to the kit.  I might try and scratch the transom and stern gallery windows to avoid the use of paint, but that might be a bit ambitious.

 

 

I took a look at the plans and there is no mention of the year.  The instructions note that Chapman's "Architectura Navalis Mercatoria" has a detailed account of the calculation related to the design of the ship.  Maybe I'll have to get myself that book.

 

I now understand what you are planning to do with the deck design.  I was a bit concerned when I first read your post that you were going to rebuild the ship to have a much smaller waist by taking off the planking, shaving back the bulkheads and then starting again.  Must have been a lack of coffee that morning     I might do something similar to open the waist.  Did you buy plans for the Lowestoft?  It looks like a good comparable ship to examine.

 

I have the Amati Pegasus kit and will also take a look at what how that area is constructed on that model.  It's a different ship naturally, but the waist area is really opened up:

 

http://www.historicships.com/TALLSHIPS/Amati/Pegasus/PegasusV7.htm

Edited June 28, 2013 by Landlubber Mike