Cutty Sark by NenadM

[rwiederrich]

Great recovery Nenad......super job making the corrections.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

moving with a lock .... I did storm ports

 

FANTASTIC..what is the scale?

 

Rob

[NenadM]

@Sudomekh, this a question for you

Edited November 24, 2013 by Nenad M

[sudomekh]

Hi! Excuse me ... I work in the sea, so do not always have internet

... my model in 1:50 scale

[NenadM]

@Sudomekh, did I understand well, lenght is almost 2 m ???

 

Wow. Realy wow. 

 

My CS lenght will be about 1m, and I have continious fight with Admiral where this " hudge" model will stay when it will be finished

 

The saddest day of every year ... outside is only 5⁰C, winter comes, tomorrow will snow and garden must be prepared for it and closed for joy

 

All water batteries in home-yard are closed and prepared for winter, all garden hoses, tables and chairs are moved to basement, all garden tolls picked up and secure, all fallen leaves collected and swiped ...

 

Nothing to do outside until spring

 

But plenty to do inside, some "elephant back" still  wait in shipyard, and there is a fear - could it be corrected at all, even though to look like ...

Edited November 24, 2013 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

I picked up all my will and courage, and bravely come in shipyard, so

 

Comedy "CS by NM" act III part 1 begine

 

Working title: "Finding lost stern"

Episode: Deep surgery

Working music : Music from movies ( mainly from "Lord Of The Rings" )

Working drink: Beer and tea

Lead role: CS

Main annoy: Me

Lasting: 3h+4h with pause for lunch and little dream ...

 

 

Obviously, ugly "elephant" must be flatten somehow, so I start digging ... not with modeler tools, but with hard artillery (drill with sanding circle)

 

 

After a while, I concluded that Flattening must be spread to sides of ship to connect somehow to lost ( and some new founded) lines and curvatures. In this stage, I become really sure that deviations in compare to Campbell will be there anyway.

 

So, what to do? Long ago I decided not to start over. What is left ? Only whole appearance of the whole with lines as much as can be smooth and in generally as much is possible to remind to Her hull lines. And all possible details over to turn attention of watcher ....

 

 

Keep digging, and noticed that new and old lines require for holes to be deeper and deeper

 

 

No, it will not look good. What to do ?

 

A lot of Hmmmmmmmm, pair of cigarrets to clear and clean mind, and after a while realised that I must rip out old stern post. 

 

 

More necessary  sanding, and I find that stern will be flattened almost 1 cm !!!!!!!!!! 

 

What had you done, Nenad ??? Where was your brain ( if you had something in head) ????

 

 

More sanding ... and after nearly a hour, I make a new ( little longer and little wider) stern post and mount it

 

( Now, for difference, stern post has little curve expressed in Campbell plans)

 

 

And somehow, suddenly, it seems that I have find my lost stern ... In the morning of this day, it seems to me as a complete impossible mission. 

 

And then it catch me ( what a supprise ?) ... collateral damage ... obviously in this situation I can not have both - proper lines and angles of stern,  and a poop right in scale. So, it seems that poop will be little longer, and I must leave with these, and to find a way to visually mask it somehow (cooper, bonds, chains ...)

 

 

For now, it seems that I mainly succeed to kill elephant !!!!

 

Sure, there will be more buffing and polishing  putty and sanding before secondary planking

 

 

And for end, picture which brightly represent my inpatient at the very start of this building. Unequal and unbalanced rear ribs.... 

 

 

@ Dognut, if I can do it, you also can do it. Bravely and half crazy go ahead

 

Sometimes I think about, when finally reach to and finish second planking, to kill all earlier posts and "Hello MSW, I build CS about year ago, and today I find this great site, I had no older photos, but here am I and this is my log ...."

 

Of course, joke. I am very proud of my splodge

 

 

EDIT on May 27th 2014

 

On this point I must add something important for dummies as I am. Equal width and thickness of stern post and rudder - it is now right time to think about this !!!! See  posts #1063 and further. I didnt think about, and run ( again) in problem 

Edited May 27, 2014 by Nenad M

[michael mott]

 

Sometimes I think about, when finally reach to and finish second planking, to kill all earlier posts and "Hello MSW, I build CS about year ago, and today I find this great site, I had no older photos, but here am I and this is my log ...."

 

Of course, joke. I am very proud of my splodge

 

And so you should be, it takes a lot of determined effort to remove and rebuild areas that you know can be improved.

 

Michael

[sudomekh]

@Sudomekh, did I understand well, lenght is almost 2 m ???

 

Wow. Realy wow. 

 

My CS lenght will be about 1m, and I have continious fight with Admiral where this " hudge" model will stay when it will be finished

 

The saddest day of every year ... outside is only 5⁰C, winter comes, tomorrow will snow and garden must be prepared for it and closed for joy

 

All water batteries in home-yard are closed and prepared for winter, all garden hoses, tables and chairs are moved to basement, all garden tolls picked up and secure, all fallen leaves collected and swiped ...

 

Nothing to do outside until spring

 

But plenty to do inside, some "elephant back" still  wait in shipyard, and there is a fear - could it be corrected at all, even though to look like ...

on a small scale ... detailing not work

[rwiederrich]

OH my.......I checked the website you gave and it is unreadable for me........Your model is awesome.

 

Rob

[rfolsom]

Nenad;  It takes a lot of courage to dig into your build like that;  your determination is phenomenal!   I'm sure you'll be greatly pleased with the results.

 

Sudomekh:  Your build is terrific, I would like to try a larger scale build such as this some day, much easier to detail at a larger scale....

 

Nenad:  I can't wait to see the start of your second planking;  better hurry, Spencer might be on his tenth or twelfth ship build by then...    (Joke....)

 

Bob

[mtaylor]

Nenad,

 

Well done on the fix.  

[mtaylor]

Sudomekh,

 

If you haven't done so, open a completed build log.  You can show as much of your building, including all the many parts, as you want without taking over Nenad's build log.

[WackoWolf]

Yes. Please start a build log for you ship.

The detail that you are doing is Excellent. Will be waiting for you to start a log.

[NenadM]

For Bob and the others

I need your advice, and experience

 

Coming along to second layer, some questions arise. To be more clear, because I do not know exactly English terms, I ll use this drawing for better explain what torment me

 

 

Where are presented

 

Number 1 is top rail, in my scale ~ 1 mm wide

 

Number 2 is parallel bender (?) at same height and colour as top rail

 

Number 3 is parallel white bender, little wider, in my scale ~ 1,5-2 mm wide

 

Edges of 1. and 2 are rounded, edge of 3 is squared

 

Red "a" sign is outside surface of bulwark with white panels, in my scale ~ 5 mm wide, has to be covered with second layer of veneer, and to be painted over in black color

 

Red "b" sign is outside surface of metal plate with water posts, in my scale (and conditions made by mistakes) ~ 1,3-1,5 cm ( not decided yet). I intend to plate it with strips of alu-foil, and to paint over in black color

 

Red "c" sign is regular planked area of hull, after second planking, it will be painted over in black color

 

Bob, in your photos, I concluded that for now you mounted No3, and No1 and No2 wait until you mount "a". Also, final outside painting and covering of surface"a" and "b" is waiting for No1 and No2

 

And here is dilema

 

Option 1

 

If I first mount No1 No2 and No3, then sticking is easier and excess adhesive can be removed nicely and precisely. Also, rounding edges can be done without damaging second layer.

 

But on that way, putting of second layer can be complicated and un-precise with possible risk to damage bender strips. OK, this can be done with extremly patient and precise hands. But on that way, there is great dangerous when start paint, to get some paint over strips, which will be extremely narrow in my scale

 

Something like this

 

 

Option 2

 

If I first put second layer of the veneer and alu-plates, without previous painting, It will be very hard to qlue benders over them, and to remove excess adhesive. Also, painting of "a" and "b" will be pain. Painting of benders too. They are so thin to cover them and protect of unwanted paint

 

Option 3

 

If I first put second layer of the veneer and alu-plates, and paint it before mounting benders, and after that over it qlue bender strips No 1,2,3 , removing of excess adhesive will surely damage veneer. If in this option paint benders before, it is question how glue will keep on paint. Painting benders after mounting can be hard and messy too

 

 

And it all must look clear and neat as on picture above, in very parallel lines. They are so much visible on model, and this mistakes can not be masked later with anything. This is, in my opinion, very important stage of building

 

 

Another question: When is the right time to cooper bottom of hull ? After or before up mentioned works

 

Hardly waiting for your thoughts and experiences

Edited November 25, 2013 by Nenad M

[sudomekh]

Thank you all! Now ... I have a problem with the internet ... from March 30, I work in the sea ... now I am in the port of Busan

 

maybe ... one month will fly the plane home, then think about your offer

detailing ... I did during the work on the ship ... the ship's hull (model) is at home

[rfolsom]

Nenad;  you are pretty much correct with how I  made my bulwarks.  However, in my build, red a and b are one continuous sheet of 1/32" (0.8 mm) basswood, and 2 is actually two pieces- the inner pre-drilled pinrail, and the outer trim (1/16" square). I also added the 1/16" square "stanchion rail" labeled with green 2.5 in the modified diagram.  The V shows where my 0.3 mm walnut veneer strip with drilled ovals and mounted uprights will go.  The "stanchion rail" was not present on the real ship, and secures the tops of the stanchions, while forming a stable base for the pinrails to set upon.

 

I chose to use several coats of sanding sealer on the a + b bulwark, and partially paint, before adding the pre-painted white 3 strip.  That is when I installed the 2.5 "stanchion rail" on the inside, and installed all stanchions.  I then made the pre-drilled pinrails in several sections.  This is where I am at now.  After shaping and staining the pinrails, they will be glued to the bulkheads and on top of the "stanchion rail"; and then pinned through the a+b bulwark for added strength.  The tops of the pins will then be hidden by the outside rail (number 2 on your diagram), the veneer strip V will be added, and the top rail 1 will be glued last after everything is sanded smooth and painted.

 

I recommend coppering your hull after your second planking is complete, and the hull is smoothed to your liking, before any painting or outside detailing of the hull, and definitely before any deckhouses or deck details are added.

 

Hope this helps..

 

~Bob

[rfolsom]

Here is a labled cross section of the test bulwark from my log for comparison...

[NenadM]

Bob

 

Our thoughts obviously go in the same direction. I was/am also thinking about your detail "2.5" which is invisible on model, but very significant for strength and endurance of pinrails. There will be a lot of ropes, and every single rope has to be streight and tight, and even a minimal tension of each separate rope will be cumulated in one point - one pinrail

 

I had seen perfect done Corel plastic CS, on which this "little" forces caused breaking mast

 

Nenad

[NenadM]

Comedy "CS by NM" act III part 2

 

Fixing the hole(s)

Not The Beatles

 

Holes are filled, some putty applied, and it looks much better than I hope

 

 

 

 

Oh, yes, there will be additional sanding and putty (again...)

Edited November 27, 2013 by Nenad M

[NenadM]

And the best part

 

Comparing to the earlier stage, it seems that all main  lines of hull are still there

 

Side view before ripping deck elements and bulwarks

 

 

Side view now

 

 

I know that my work differs from the lines if I has digged them from Campbell drawings, but for me it seems as it is pretty acceptably

 

Where I was, I must say I am very happy

 

The feeling that I finally get out from swamp, and that I am finally close to come to stage of master (ha !) and precise work is really great

Edited November 28, 2013 by Nenad M

[popeye the sailor]

looking great Nenad........the curve looks much better

[keelhauled]

Ship is looking great.  It takes bravery to jump back in to the build and make significant corrections.  But since you built it from scratch, there isn't anything that you can't fix or do better the second time around.  You're doing a great job.

 

Oh on the bulwarks and pin rails: I was worried about all of the stress on them, especially because I plan on rigging with sails.  So I ran a small rail under the pin rail against the bulwark to add support and used a syringe to glue everything together.  After the glue was dry, I pressed down  and up really hard on all of the rails to make sure that they were solid.  If they were going to break away I wanted to know then while I could easily reattach them.  If I could go back I'd put pins through the bulwark and into the pin rails just for extra strength.  Probably unnecessary, but I worry to much.

 

Take care,

marc

[rfolsom]

Marc' (and Nenad)  I broke my 1/32" bulwarks at least 5 times when coppering;  but they came back within reason...

[NenadM]

...I broke my 1/32" bulwarks at least 5 times when coppering ...

 

Bob

 

That was the exact reason I decided to make top rail and all under top rail I have done  - before going down to second planking and coopering. 

 

The blessing in disguise is that my bulwarks are now almost 2 mm thick and, thus, pretty strong, and that thickness could not be seen ( I hope) - they will be covered by top rail and pinrail, and masked with stanchions etc.

 

Only place where thickness eventualy could be seen are

 

1. water posts, so I must do them very carefully to visually mask thickness with hinges and holders etc

2. metal plates will not be reentrant enough as on real CS and in the Campbell drawings, so I intend to garnish them with a lot of simulation of metal strips and rivets which are shown on pictures of CS.

 

As they (bulwarks) are strong, when I lay my CS upside down on top rails with hull up on Her styrofoam dry dock, I dont believe that anything will crack. Anywhere, wish me luck with this

 

Nenad

Edited November 28, 2013 by Nenad M

[popeye the sailor]

that's what scratch building is all about     you mold and shape  {sometimes repeatedly}  until your satisfied with what your creating.  to think of what the early scratch builders did,  your doing something that,  back in the 40's and 50's,  used to be the norm.  it is an art form, gentlemen,  to be able to see your subject, and copy it through the use of your hands.    to perfect it,  takes time......but when your done,  the mere fact that you made it from nothing,  is a feat,  unmatched.      keep up the good work! 

[Lou van Wijhe]

I have three years of build ... a lot of photos on this forum http://forum.modelsworld.ru/forum88.html

 

Sudomekh,

 

Your model looks beautiful and highly detailed. I've also been looking at your photos on the Russian forum. This really is museum quality!

 

Lou

 

P.S.

The way you built the hull, in two halves, is very interesting and special!

Edited November 28, 2013 by Lou van Wijhe

[SpencerC]

What do you mean by you thought you lost the stern stem piece

[sudomekh]

Sudomekh,

 

Your model looks beautiful and highly detailed. I've also been looking at your photos on the Russian forum. This really is museum quality!

 

Lou

 

P.S.

The way you built the hull, in two halves, is very interesting and special!

Thank you!

Sorry ... I do not have a workshop and I build the kitchen)))

two halves easier to handle)))

[rfolsom]

Nenad;  I've noticed that the more I add to the bulwarks, the sturdier they get.  Since you've already added the detail work, you probably won't have any problem with cracking.  It took me 7 months to do the copper; but the good thing is it doesn't require a lot of heavy thinking..  I'd put a movie on and grab a beer or pop, and spend 2 or 3 hours a night just cutting, dimpling, and affixing the little things..

 

I want to wish you and everyone else a Happy Thanksgiving, I know you probably don't recognize the holiday,  but it's a good time to sit back and give thanks for all we are blessed with.  (I'm atheist as well, so thanks go to my Niece who cooked a wonderful meal, Sister who is always there, The Admiral and her unfaltering love, and everyone on Model Ship World for their thoughts, comments, and help ) .

 

Best regards, Always.

 

~Bob

[NenadM]

What do you mean by you thought you lost the stern stem piece

 

@Spencer, I think that I "visually lost" proper lines so hull did not look like hull on CS ( extremely fat stern for instance). I think that I mainly success in correcting this. My camera is poor, light conditions also, and in pictures you can not brightly see third dimension of model, and real meaning of my words

Edited November 29, 2013 by Nenad M