USS Gwin (DD-433) by Egilman - DML/Dragon - 1/350th scale - PLASTIC

[Landlubber Mike]

Wow, how did I miss this one??  Hope all you guys with hernias saved me a seat!  Maybe i'll just stand in the back and do sit ups and squats instead.

 

This has been a fascinating log and construction hasn't started!  Really appreciate all the history you guys are sharing.  When you hear about the "Greatest Generation," one can think it's an overused and too grandiose a phrase.  But the more I read and watch about WWII, it astounds me at the ingenuity, grit, and a bit of luck/divine assistance that accompanied these brave men and women.  

[Egilman]

3 hours ago, lmagna said:

My mistake. When I was looking at some of the pictures available online it looked like a number of those tubs on the lower decks held single 20mm guns with shields, not .50s. But then it is not my build and I was not really trying to research the ship like you are.

I originally thought she had some 20mm aboard as well until Rick Davis clued me into all four ships AA fit during the Doolittle raid...... They were in the process of installing 20mm's in the fleet in early '42 and they were in very short supply, BB's and CA's had priority over destroyers so they got the preponderance of them when they became available.... The destroyers got the .50's taken off the BB's & Cruisers, as many as they could fit given the weight handicap these ships functioned under..... Her "ultimate" fit as decided by the Bureau of Ships was 9 20mm's, but she didn't get them till after her post raid refit at Pearl.... the Meredith, Greyson and Monssen had a few but none had their full complement till after the raid at least... They all had a mixed bag of AA guns, 20mm's and .50's until late '42 when they started getting bofors twins at which point all the .50's were removed...... They were in constant flux on installed AA fit during their lifetimes so pinning them down to a specific timeline or point in their service life they could be very different.... The final armament fit of the Greyson during the war was 4 5"/38's, no torpedo tubes, a pair of quad bofors, a pair of twin bofors and 4 twin 20mm's, (known as the "kamikaze" update, during the raid she had 8 .50's and 4 20mm's)....... They were constantly being updated every time they hit a yard....

[Egilman]

2 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Wow, how did I miss this one??  Hope all you guys with hernias saved me a seat!  Maybe i'll just stand in the back and do sit ups and squats instead.

 

This has been a fascinating log and construction hasn't started!  Really appreciate all the history you guys are sharing.  When you hear about the "Greatest Generation," one can think it's an overused and too grandiose a phrase.  But the more I read and watch about WWII, it astounds me at the ingenuity, grit, and a bit of luck/divine assistance that accompanied these brave men and women.  

You haven't missed it my friend, I try to share what I've investigated and leaned when preparing a build, and in this case, there is a lot of history to be shared....

 

They don't want to teach this history, my opinion is they don't want the young'uns knowing what our history actually is, what it means to be an american, it's easier to manipulate them that way....

The way I build my stuff is in essence (I hope) of giving the establishment social brainwashers the middle finger.... True stories that need to be told.... 

 

I'm very thankful for my brothers that share their experiences and stories.... The more we build, the more we teach.... The more the memories/wisdom lives on.....

[Canute]

EG, here's a review of the Kraken parts on the Steel Navy site: http://www.steelnavy.net/KrakenDesDiv22FBustelo350.html

 

They'll be a nice addition to the kit.

[Egilman]

13 hours ago, Canute said:

They'll be a nice addition to the kit.

That's a very nice set as well as the one I have... there are actually two updates for DesDiv 22, the prewar (late '41) to post midway update when they had mostly .50 cal machine guns and minimal 20mm's and the post midway update where they received their designated complement of 9 20mm's... (the Gwin during this period had no 20mm's)

 

That's a very nice review but it is for the post midway update.... since I'm building her during the Doolittle Tokyo raid timeframe I need the 12 .50's configuration for the Gwin....

 

You see the aft deck house roof here which shows the 6 tub configuration. and that bit on the side is the two tubs that need to be added to the pilothouse roof..... Not all of the four destroyers got the same modification in fact they were each different. If I was going to do the Monssen for example I would have to take the part above and remove the two middle tubs and replace them with larger tubs for 20mm's cause the Monssen had 4 20mm's and 6 .50 cal's during the raid.... The four ships had different AA fits during this period... The reviewed parts definitely set up the AA fit during their Guadalcanal service though The Greyson remained in that fit during the war until mid '45 when she received the "Kamikaze" upgrade to 40mm's

 

But what he says about the Kraken parts quality is right on the money.... Excellent parts that directly replace kit parts... Still need to check references for the time period your modeling as the differences are very readily noticeable..... I would provide a link to their site but I can't seem to connect to it right now....

 

Very nice parts....

Edited November 18, 2020 by Egilman

[Egilman]

14 hours ago, Canute said:

here's a review of the Kraken parts on the Steel Navy site: http://www.steelnavy.net/KrakenDesDiv22FBustelo350.html

And here the same reviewer's comments on the prewar update set for the Gleaves class destroyers with 12 .50 cal machine guns from Steel Navy: http://www.steelnavy.net/KrakenKearnyConversion350FBustelo.html

 

The USS Kearny DD432 was a sister to the Gwin DD433....

 

Link to Krakken Hobbies page...https://krakenhobbies.com/shop/ols/products/1350-uss-kearny-dd-432-1041-conversion-set

Edited November 18, 2020 by Egilman

[Egilman]

So, it's probably time to get this floaty thingy ready to go....

 

Now, A word about the kit construction order... they have you building all the subassemblies first mounting them to the deck, then mounting the deck to the hull once it is finished....

 

Bass Ackwards if you ask me, I"m not going to mount all this detail on this thing and then have to glue the deck to the hull afterwards... a disaster in the making.....

 

So I'm going to jump all the way to step 10 and build the display stand and lower hull first. This has the advantage of giving me a place to put her out of the way when I start all the little pieces that need to go on her...

 

And, I haven't decided if I'm going to do her waterline or pedestal yet and with this set up I can leave the choice until the end.... (I'm seriously thinking of doing a Frank Spahr inspired water base for her, easiest way to replicate the seas she was in on April 18th 1942) But I'll decide that later.

 

Anyway here are the parts needed to set up the base and get started on the basic hull....

Primed and ready for paint with the base in semi-gloss black....

Going to do the pedestals in Bronze, Brass or Copper and the hull bottom in Norfolk 65-A Anti-Fouling Red....

The hull gets an overall coat of Late 1941 5-O ocean grey, and the Boston pattern 5-N Navy blue gets hand painted on afterwards. Now the Hull is split at the light load water line which is a good spot cause the bottom edge represents the middle of the boot topping.... In 1/350th scale it should be approx 1/16th inch along the bottom edge of the upper hull....

 

The deck of course will be 20B Deck Blue....

 

So, The Journey, it starts....

More coming my friends......

Edited December 5, 2020 by Egilman

[Edwardkenway]

The paints are opened and pieces sorted, construction begins!!

I'm in two minds whether to watch from the easy chairs or the hammocks, as Lou says they're really comfortable 😄

I like the idea of a waterline setting😉

Happy building brother!

[Jack12477]

3 hours ago, Edwardkenway said:

I'm in two minds whether to watch from the easy chairs or the hammocks, as Lou says they're really comfortable

Come join the hammock crowd! We are high enough we can shuck peanuts and toss the shells down below. 😁

 

[lmagna]

22 hours ago, Jack12477 said:

We are high enough we can shuck peanuts and toss the shells down below

I knew there was a reason to be up here other than the added warmth! Count me in, it's raid time!

[Egilman]

Thank you Gentlemen for joining, (and the likes) You boys in the rafters, be careful where you chuck those shells, we wouldn't want any friendly fire incidents below....

 

Small update here, I've got the base situated and assembled with the lower hull just slipped onto the pedestals.... (so I can remove it as needed, the running gear will be installed later if I decide to mount it this way)

 

Base assembled and hull painted.....

The painted upper hull.... 

That is two coats of hand brushed, 50/50 thinned True North 5-O Ocean Grey, definitely blue cast there isn't it.....

 

Now the reason I'm hand brushing so thin a paint is this model is way too small for airbrushing, so the technique I use is to wash the primer coat with several coats of heavily thinned paint to maintain the details.... The paint dries extremely thin, not as thin as an airbrush true, but very close, still thin enough to not hide detail.....

 

I get to do the same thing after this fully cures with the 5-N Navy Blue camo pattern. Historically, I'm painting it backwards, the 5-N usually went on first and the 5-O was painted on afterwards.... this way is better for modeling..... (dark covers lighter paint easier)

I developed two images for the camo pattern....

Port...

And Starboard...

Hull only though, the superstructure camo I will wing as best I can from photographs...

 

Next update will show how much skill I still have doing fine line painting, It has been a while.....

 

EG

 

[Egilman]

Ok, short update here, half the starboard side's 5-N Navy blue is on... (from the bow back)

 

I know it looks a bit streaky, (it didn't take long for the paint to start weathering) the cured -dried sections appear a bit lighter than the fresh ones and the edges are a bit jagged, but what do ya think? Any suggestions?

 

EG

Edited December 6, 2020 by Egilman

[Landlubber Mike]

Awesome!  Excited to see this starting.  Those Kraken upgrade sets look fantastic.  Along with the very nice crispness and detail, I like the fact that they directly replace the kit parts, rather than have you remove sections of a part and replace with PE, etc.  Much cleaner and less fuss that way.

 

59 minutes ago, Egilman said:

Ok, short update here, half the starboard side's 5-N Navy blue is on... (from the bow back)

 

I know it looks a bit streaky, (it didn't take long for the paint to start weathering) the cured -dried sections appear a bit lighter than the fresh ones and the edges are a bit jagged, but what do ya think? Any suggestions?

 

EG

 

Could the issue be that the paints are thinned a bit too much?  I see what you mean about the camo pattern being tricky, but if it were me, I think I would try to mask and airbrush -- but that's mostly because I suck at hand brushing.  

 

I'm certainly nowhere near as experienced or skilled as you, so take my thoughts for what you paid for them.  But, if I was going to mask, I could see going one of two ways.  First way would be to draw the camo lines in pencil on the hull, add a thin masking tape like Tamiya over the section, trace the outline onto the tape, remove the tape, cut the outline, and then add the tape back.  That would be two tape lifts before the final stick on the hull, so that might be pushing things when it comes to getting the tape to tightly fit to the hull.

 

Another approach might be to again draw the lines in camo, then use a liquid mask.  I haven't tried liquid masks yet, but from what I've seen, they seem to work nicely when lines are irregular.

 

Again, just how I would think about approaching the camo.  Good luck - this is going to be a fantastic build (and an educational log to follow!), so I'm happy to see you started.

[Old Collingwood]

"You hoo  - I'm here"   just taking a seat  not far away  just over the pond.

 

OC.

[Jack12477]

My method is to use Tamiya tape wide enough to do the whole hull in a single run of tape. Then trace the came pattern onto the tape, using a sharp blade cut out the area to be painted blue. Burnish the tape edge a bit. Then pour a small amount of paint into one of those small egg carton style plastic palettes from Michaels or wherever, dip the brush in water first, pick up some paint from pallette  brushing from tape onto hull so paint doesn't creep under tape edge, I fill in the camo area. 

 

Dipping the brush in water first then paints, thins it enough for my work.

 

But your camo looks good to me.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Jack12477

[lmagna]

7 hours ago, Egilman said:

we wouldn't want any friendly fire incidents below....

We are MUCH to high for your puny AA guns to reach! 

 

Maybe I am just not able to zoom in far enough to see what you are talking about but your hand brushed camo looks OK from here.                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

[Edwardkenway]

I think the camo looks fine, freehand with a brush, it's bl**dy good!!

 

 

[popeye the sailor]

I did some similar camo to the Vendetta.........looking good so far  

[Egilman]

10 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Awesome!  Excited to see this starting.  Those Kraken upgrade sets look fantastic.  Along with the very nice crispness and detail, I like the fact that they directly replace the kit parts, rather than have you remove sections of a part and replace with PE, etc.  Much cleaner and less fuss that way.

 

 

Could the issue be that the paints are thinned a bit too much?  I see what you mean about the camo pattern being tricky, but if it were me, I think I would try to mask and airbrush -- but that's mostly because I suck at hand brushing.  

 

I'm certainly nowhere near as experienced or skilled as you, so take my thoughts for what you paid for them.  But, if I was going to mask, I could see going one of two ways.  First way would be to draw the camo lines in pencil on the hull, add a thin masking tape like Tamiya over the section, trace the outline onto the tape, remove the tape, cut the outline, and then add the tape back.  That would be two tape lifts before the final stick on the hull, so that might be pushing things when it comes to getting the tape to tightly fit to the hull.

 

Another approach might be to again draw the lines in camo, then use a liquid mask.  I haven't tried liquid masks yet, but from what I've seen, they seem to work nicely when lines are irregular.

 

Again, just how I would think about approaching the camo.  Good luck - this is going to be a fantastic build (and an educational log to follow!), so I'm happy to see you started.

I understand, there are many ways to reach the same goal, picking the right one for the situation and your skills is the issue...... Experience is what it is called trying out various solutions to find one that works and is repeatable...

 

This is one technique that works for me, and it is surprisingly easy.... I've never had a good experience with masking and brushing oil enamels the paint always seen to creep......and thinning them works better than trying straight out of the bottle, the reason for the thinning is that the flow time last longer, this allows the paint to level much easier..... We have all experienced brushing paint on a surface and before you can load up a brush the edge dries and the middle thickens up to the point it gets globby.... with thinned paint and a good primer coat this doesn't happen... in fact you can do multiple coats without paint buildup, it looks like heck when wet, but when the thinner evaporates it lays down smooth even on overlapping edges.... May take several coats, but it's the only way to hand paint oils....

 

In a few I'm going to post an example of this by correcting a mistake on the pattern, I missed a line and as a result switched the color pattern around, Need to repaint the ocean grey over a part of the hull side and start over..... I'll post pictures of it so you can see what I mean....

[Egilman]

9 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

"You hoo  - I'm here"   just taking a seat  not far away  just over the pond.

 

OC.

I see you over there brother, from all the way over here.... Glad you could join us....

[Old Collingwood]

1 minute ago, Egilman said:

I see you over there brother, from all the way over here.... Glad you could join us....

Yep  I have my binoculars with me  -  perhaps Lou could use a set.

 

OC.

[Egilman]

6 hours ago, Jack12477 said:

My method is to use Tamiya tape wide enough to do the whole hull in a single run of tape. Then trace the came pattern onto the tape, using a sharp blade cut out the area to be painted blue. Burnish the tape edge a bit. Then pour a small amount of paint into one of those small egg carton style plastic palettes from Michaels or wherever, dip the brush in water first, pick up some paint from pallette  brushing from tape onto hull so paint doesn't creep under tape edge, I fill in the camo area. 

 

Dipping the brush in water first then paints, thins it enough for my work.

Yeah I've seen that technique demonstrated several times, problem is when using thinned oil enamels the thinner reacts with the glue in the tape dissolving it and it makes a mess... (which I've also seen several times) Works great for acrylics though..... I tried to manufacture masks for this kind of painting once, no matter what I tried, I always seem to tear the tape or film with the knife.... So over time I developed this way of doing it ...... It's one of the things we do, making materials do things other than they usually do....... In this case oil paint.... Using thinner to prevent it from drying as fast as it usually wants to....

 

Nothing special, applying good old paint with a brush by hand......

[Egilman]

6 hours ago, lmagna said:

We are MUCH to high for your puny AA guns to reach! 

Yeah, but youse guys aren't in 1/350th scale.... and the admiral says to behave..... OR ELSE..... (I haven't a clue what or else is) 

[Jack12477]

Forgot you were using oils not acrylics. I switched to acrylics after the demise of Floquil. 

[Egilman]

7 hours ago, Jack12477 said:

But your camo looks good to me.

 

7 hours ago, lmagna said:

Maybe I am just not able to zoom in far enough to see what you are talking about but your hand brushed camo looks OK from here.

 

5 hours ago, Edwardkenway said:

I think the camo looks fine, freehand with a brush, it's bl**dy good!!

 

2 hours ago, popeye the sailor said:

I did some similar camo to the Vendetta.........looking good so far

Thank you guys, Very very much.... It means a lot...

 

But alas I messed up, painted the wrong area the wrong color cause I missed a line.... will be posting the error and the correction in a few minutes.....

[Egilman]

Yeah, in my haste, I screwed it up, typical for me.....

 

I missed transferring a line in the pattern to the ships hull, and painted the next section that is supposed to be 5-O Ocean Grey, 5-N Navy Blue.......

There is a pattern line in that grey area between the two Navy blue splotches..... That blue section towards the stern should be grey....

 

So I've recoated it with Ocean Grey...... One coat so far looks like it is going to need another....

Here is where the super thinned paint works to your advantage, once the thinner evaporates it leaves a layer of paint only a few mils thick.... you can put several coats on over the same place and they will lay down so smooth you can't tell.... You can see where I use a 0.7mm pencil lead to draw out the pattern on the hull, then is simple, just lay your paint between the lines taking the lines as you paint...

 

Just make sure you get all the lines in the pattern..... Small setback, once this is cured I'll throw on the second grey coat and you will never know.... Once that is cured I re-draw the lines adding the one I missed....

 

Oh well I'm not perfect..... (but I try hard) {chuckle}

[Old Collingwood]

From when I built my HMS Warspite  - I think the key is lots of thin coats  (ok mine was acrylics)   But I found I could brush along the demarcation lines without it causing a build up.

 

OC.

[Landlubber Mike]

11 hours ago, Jack12477 said:

Forgot you were using oils not acrylics. I switched to acrylics after the demise of Floquil. 

 

Sorry, didn't catch that you were using oils either.  I've never used oils so disregard what I said  

[Egilman]

10 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

From when I built my HMS Warspite  - I think the key is lots of thin coats  (ok mine was acrylics)   But I found I could brush along the demarcation lines without it causing a build up.

 

OC.

Painting, no matter the medium, is laying down a pigment with a carrier, everyone want's a paint that covers in one coat, but that is impossible as the materials can vary greatly...... Scale add an issue you normally don't have... You not only have to cover the subject, you have to do it in scale... The only way to do this is thin the paint.... Good paint will cover, (stick to the surface) no matter how thin it is.... you may need more coats to get complete coverage but it lays down so thin the subsequent layers blend together..... I discovered this technique hand brushing Testors flat black..... It's very thin and doesn't build up on the edges when doing a large area...... I figured that I would try it on some of the other thicker paints and soon learned how... 

 

For those who don't use airbrushes, it is worth giving it a try, another tool in the box so to speak. But remember nothing beats an airbrush for thin consistent coverage of an area.... but this is a very good substitute technique for those not enamored of airbrushes...

 

It works for flat paints, generally better with some than others is typical, and gloss paints it doesn't work... (due to the gloss carrier in the paint not being accepting of many thinners) This is my first attempt at this technique with True North paints, and to be honest, they react to it better than Testors/Model Masters do..... So far I'm very impressed with them....

 

EG

[Egilman]

11 hours ago, Jack12477 said:

Forgot you were using oils not acrylics. I switched to acrylics after the demise of Floquil. 

 

34 minutes ago, Landlubber Mike said:

 

Sorry, didn't catch that you were using oils either.  I've never used oils so disregard what I said  

That's ok brothers, I tried Acrylics when they first came out and were pretty much airbrush only, they were just too thin for brush painting.... So I persisted with the old standbys, I know that over the years they have improved a great deal from the early days, but with me I've grown to trust what I know.... Same as you guys with acrylics... Since then I've learned that the medium doesn't really matter you use something long enough, learn the techniques peculiar to each and the results tell the tale....

 

It's the skill of the artists my friends, you guys do with acrylics stuff I can't do, so I will never disregard what you guys say.... keep on saying it my friends the wisdom and experiences are what is really valuable here..... Thanks for sharing....