Treenail holes

[Don Case]

1. What do you use for drilling treenail holes inside the hull where a standard hand drill won't fit? I can't imagine drilling a million holes with a pin vice.

2. How deep do you drill said holes? They are mostly decorative, aren't they?

[Gregory]

Are they going to be visible on the finished model?

[Bob Cleek]

Generally, one would drill before assembly. However, at most model scales, trunnels are invisible at scale viewing distance. In prototype practice, the trunnels were not of greatly contrasting color and never intended to be a visual feature of the design. In large measure, visible trunnels are a modern modeler's fetish, not an accurate depiction of the real thing.

 

For a price, there are small right-angle handpieces for the Foredom flex-shaft system and professional "dental engines," which will drill at any angle you want in small spaces, like your mouth.

 

For Foredom flex-shaft machines, about the size of a pencil:

 

https://www.moldshoptools.com/catalog/list.php?category_id=51

 

 

For dental laboratory engines, the handpiece options are virtually endless. They come in a variety of angles and sizes.

 

Search eBay for used dental laboratory equipment. There are many useful tools used by dentists and dental labs, which make bridges, crowns, and dentures and such, that are extremely useful to the modeler. You might ask your dentist where to go locally for used dental equipment. Dental technology has advanced greatly in recent times. Many dentists are using air-driven dental drills now. The older belt-driven equipment is often piled up in an office closet and may sometimes even be had for the asking! 

 

Here's a once top of the line belt-driven dental lab bench engine with a handpiece on eBay for $500:

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133352050765?hash=item1f0c66d04d:g:hZoAAOSw-wVeYGMN

 

With 45 and 90 degree handpieces and a few collets, bits and burrs, you'd be able to do just about any sort of drilling and carving a modeler could ever want to do in wood, metal, bone, or plastic.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[allanyed]

What is the diameter of the tree nails (full scale)?   What material do you plan to use?  They should be very subtle if visible at all.  You should not be able to see them from about 2 to 3 feet away.  Look at the various build logs and will see a lot of cases of ships with hulls and decks that look like they have the measles because the treenails/trunnels/trennals were too large and/or too dark.   

Allan

[Dziadeczek]

Why don't you impress into the wood tiny circles imitating treenails, with a sharp edge of a medical needle of appropriate size, or any other metal tube?

They look perfect after slight push and twist of such needle into the wood and one coat of Danish oil. (besides, that way it's lots less work...)

[allanyed]

Dz

Doesn't a needle  leave an indented ring in the wood?  Neat idea none the less.  Could also just drill the right size hole, smear a dab of PVA in a few holes at a time and sand so the saw dust fills the holes and the color will be close to  that of the surrounding wood.  Drill a few more, glue and sand  a few thousand times.

Allan 

[Don Case]

I hadn't really decided much past past drilling the holes. I know they should not be obvious. I was looking a thread that used the "fill with dust" method and another that used filler so I'm seriously considering one of those. I'll probably be planking the whole ship but I thought that I could get some practice doing these things where it won't show. Maybe I'll do a pass on treenails on the interior.

  I guess Google must be listening to me because when I started thinking about this up pops an add from Banggood for a tiny(about 4" long) USB powered drill. It was $10Can so I ordered one. it's going to take six weeks to get here but we'll see. Most of the comments said it's underpowered which is to be expected but one person said they hopped it up with a 9 volt battery and it works a lot better. As long as you don't let out the factory smoke.

[Mark P]

Good Evening All;

 

If one wished to be really pedantic about treenailing, it would be necessary to take into account the fact that in various locations where particular strength was required, it was customary to use bolts instead of treenails. This was done, for example, with the binding strakes and spirketting, and with the plank of the bottom from the wales downwards. All butts in these locations had bolts in the timber immediately before the one on which the butt lay. Bolts were not left exposed, though: they were sunk below the surface, and a diamond shaped cover-piece was inset into the plank to hide them. As the grain of this diamond was parallel to the plank, this would be almost invisible, thereby causing noticeable blank spots in the pattern of treenailing. However, the cover piece was caulked and payed, which would have led to it being rather noticeable. Frequently, treenails were also caulked, with caulkers using curved irons to drive the oakum home. This presumably meant that the caulking was also payed in these locations, to prevent the oakum rotting. So again, they would actually have been rather visible, as dark rings, though; rather than wood circles. 

 

However, I do tend to agree with Bob Cleek on this matter; very few Georgian era models have treenails in their planking, and I believe that they look much cleaner for it. Thousands of overly-noticeable treenails give the models an appearance of having some kind of disease, and distract from the aesthetically pleasing flow of well-laid planking runs. 

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

[Bob Cleek]

2 hours ago, Mark P said:

Frequently, treenails were also caulked, with caulkers using curved irons to drive the oakum home. This presumably meant that the caulking was also payed in these locations, to prevent the oakum rotting. So again, they would actually have been rather visible, as dark rings, though; rather than wood circles. 

 

Paying a horizontal seam with hot tar is a trick I'd love to see.  

 

Fascinating. i've never heard of caulked trunnels. or "Dutchmen" (a graving piece let in over a bolt in this case.) Trunnels are always driven as dry as they can be into tight holes so that when they swell back in the higher relative humidity, they will hold fast. They may also be tenoned, blind at the bottom, and/or at the top. There's no caulking in the world that is going to create a stronger friction fit than that (which would only be around the outer edge of the trunnel, anyhow.) I can't imagine what benefit there would possibly be to a "caulked" trunnel. As for Dutchmen, there's not enough meat on them for any sort of caulking to hold them in place reliably. Until the advent of modern adhesives, they were generally bedded and mechanically fastened.

 

Is there a book that tells more about early trunneling practices? I sure can't wrap my head around what you're describing about caulking them.

[allanyed]

Bob

   Regarding caulking, the following is from the contract for  HMS Echo (16), 1782

......... All Treenails to be dry seasoned, clear of Sap, and converted from Timber of the growth of Sussex, or equal in Goodness, therefore, to be well mooted, not overhauled with an Axe in driving, and all to be caulked .......... 

 

The same wording is found in the contracts for Elephant  (74) 1781,  Curacoa 36, 1809 and Astraea 36, 1810.  

 

I could not find any reference to how "treenayles" were to be set up in any of the 17th century contracts I have in my files.  Yep, another spelling of the same item I found in the contract for the HMS James Galley, 1686.   

 

Allan

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

On 5/31/2021 at 7:28 PM, Dziadeczek said:

Why don't you impress into the wood tiny circles imitating treenails, with a sharp edge of a medical needle of appropriate size, or any other metal tube?

They look perfect after slight push and twist of such needle into the wood and one coat of Danish oil. (besides, that way it's lots less work...)

  Ahoy!  You've got me thinking again ... (I thought I smelled wood burning :D).  Carpenters' nail sets (for tapping finishing nails below the surface of wood trim/millwork so that putty can be applied, then painted over (after the putty dries) are used so the wood work appears seamless with no fasteners apparent.  OK, so I noticed that the working end of the hardened steel nail set has a spherical depression in the center and a tapered exterior that produced a circular edge to 'bite' into the small head of the finishing nail.  This is so that the nail set won't 'walk' or slip to one side of the nail head (or side off the head altogether), which would further mar the woodwork (and require more putty).

 

  Now I suppose that the tapered exterior of the tool's nose could be ground or honed thinner so that this circular grip would be transformed into something like a cutter. Nail sets come in a variety of sized to suit the various diameters of finishing nails (8 penny, 6 penny, 4 penny), and some of them may be about the right scale for a tree nail of various scales.  The modified nail set could be hand applied (with care) or even tapped gently to put a tiny ring-shaped cut into deck (or other) planking.  Finish applied over a deck so marked would tend to accumulate more in this ring shape (but not too much more) and it would imitate caulked tree nails.

 

  Please note  that this is old Johnny thinking out loud (or talking to himself again) with another idea he has yet to experiment with.  Now I suppose that before using the nail set, one could apply a surface resist (a thin coat of shellac is one of my favorites for wood working in general), and THEN use the nail set.  One could wipe a darker stain or filler that would seek the tiny circular recesses, yet tip away from the top surface that has been sealed.  Scale, of course, would be the limiting factor.      Johnny

[Justin P.]

22 hours ago, Mark P said:

However, I do tend to agree with Bob Cleek on this matter; very few Georgian era models have treenails in their planking, and I believe that they look much cleaner for it. Thousands of overly-noticeable treenails give the models an appearance of having some kind of disease, and distract from the aesthetically pleasing flow of well-laid planking runs. 

Agreed.   Anything smaller than say, 1:48, and they become even more distracting (and difficult).   I think though, they do add something to a model of a certain type.  On most kits they end up looking additive and unnecessary and ultimately contribute to the "messiness" of the overall result.   On others though, even if not meeting the correct historical aesthetic (circles v. rings) they can communicate a level of detail that without might leave an otherwise well made model looking a bit bland or incomplete.   I feel that ultimately they require a subtlety and finesse that only a few possess and can execute truly well - too many and you are lost, too dark or not perfectly laid in straight lines, etc.  

 

I personally love them on the right model, but also admit to still learning the art of using them, let alone making or installing them. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Justin P.

[Mark P]

18 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

 

Paying a horizontal seam with hot tar is a trick I'd love to see.  

 

Fascinating. i've never heard of caulked trunnels. or "Dutchmen" (a graving piece let in over a bolt in this case.) Trunnels are always driven as dry as they can be into tight holes so that when they swell back in the higher relative humidity, they will hold fast. They may also be tenoned, blind at the bottom, and/or at the top. There's no caulking in the world that is going to create a stronger friction fit than that (which would only be around the outer edge of the trunnel, anyhow.) I can't imagine what benefit there would possibly be to a "caulked" trunnel. As for Dutchmen, there's not enough meat on them for any sort of caulking to hold them in place reliably. Until the advent of modern adhesives, they were generally bedded and mechanically fastened.

 

 

Good Evening Gentlemen;

 

I have to agree with Bob, in that it seems counter-intuitive to caulk treenails; and I was surprised when I first came across references to it, for treenails do, as mentioned, swell when wet, ensuring a good grip. 

 

Allan's post has provided sufficient contemporary evidence for the practice of caulking the treenails (thanks Allan; saved me from digging them out; and my contracts don't go into the 19th century) Whilst it may have been different in the merchant fleet, this was probably done because warships were not always in commission. If laid up in ordinary, they were moored in the river, and in hot weather the timber would all shrink, planks and treenails both. This was a known problem, and I have seen complaints that the ship's standing officers failed in their task of keeping the ship's sides wet in such weather, allowing seams to open and treenails to become loose (they were also meant to open the hatches and ports to allow the air to circulate to prevent rot, yet they frequently failed in this task as well) The same hot weather would also make any pitch soft, allowing it to move at least somewhat with the wood.

 

Pitch was applied to the seams using a rectangular shaped funnel, with a long narrow slot in the bottom. Using this correctly on side planking must have been somewhat of an art, involving sliding it along the seam slowly, whilst someone else poured the hot pitch in at the right rate. For treenails, though, I have no evidence for how it was done; quite possibly with a brush (dockyard orders for consumables include a huge number of brushes of various types, although most of these were for paying the bottom and sides with white stuff or black stuff, or whatever other finish was needed)

 

Further evidence that this was done, somehow, lies in the origin of the widespread old saw 'there'll be the devil to pay'. This, if I remember correctly, evolved amongst shipwrights; where the 'devil' is the name of the lowermost seam in the ship, of the garboard strake, which must have been awkward to get at. The fuller, older version of the old saying is: 'There'll be the devil to pay and no pitch hot'. 

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

[Bob Cleek]

I don't claim to be an authority on Seventeenth and Eighteenth Century British Admiralty shipbuilding practices, but I do have a small bit of hands-on experience calking seams and driving trunnels. I may later stand corrected, but I don't believe seams on vertical surfaces were ever payed, which is the process of pouring hot molten liquid tar (or pitch compounds) from a hot can with a specialized spout designed for the purpose. Generally, then, it was only decks which were payed. I believe seams on vertical surfaces were "stopped" with similar "stopping" compounds of "plastic," rather than "liquid," pitch or tar applied with a putty knife. 

 

I don't dispute the obvious reference in the contemporary specifications to "caulking" trunnels, but, in that instance, I believe the reference is to the practice of sealing the end-grain with tar or pitch inside of the trunnel hole immediately before driving the trunnel or to apply stopping to wedged trunnels which had split or broken edges after driving. There is certainly no reason to drive oakum around a trunnel as has been described above in this thread. That's just plain silly. I've got at least a couple of dozen caulking irons in my caulker's bucket, which I obtained many years ago from the widow of a lifelong master ship caulker. While some are "bent irons," with their shafts bent to permit accessing difficult to reach seams, none are shaped like a gouge on the working edge of the iron for the purpose of caulking curved seams or trunnels. This is simply because such a gouge-shaped iron would prevent the proper driving of the caulking material which requires the iron to be "rocked" as the material is progressively driven down the length of the seam. Furthermore, caulking must be driven into a proper "V"-shaped "caulking seam" and there are irons called "dumb irons" which are made for the purpose of creating such seams. There's no such thing as a "dumb iron" for making caulking seams around the sides of trunnels. Making a caulking seam around the head of a trunnel would serve no purpose whatsoever, and would serve to weaken the holding power of the trunnel itself. 

 

Most of my caulking irons were made by C.Drew and Company, the foremost American manufacturers of wooden shipwrights tools back in the day. Fortunately, some wonk has posted the old Drew catalogs on the Antique Tool Collectors' Research Forum. http://www.numismalink.com/drew.ency.34.59a.html The Drew catalogs do mention "treenail irons," but provide no details or pictures. The author adds a detailed note, however, explaining that another apparently British catalog shows a picture of a "treenail iron" and describes the treenail iron as "like a spike iron but usually with a blunt edge about 1" wide" and the catalog explains that these were "Used for splitting and spreading the head of a trenail (British spelling) before inserting a wedge or caulking material." It remains a mystery why a caulker would ever have occasion to "caulk" a wedge, except that wedges or trunnel edges may chip, split, creating defective voids and these would be filled with stopping compound as the caulkers came across them when stopping the hull seams. http://www.numismalink.com/drew.note19.html

 

Bottom line, it would appear nobody ever drove oakum around trunnels. Just imagine, were the assertion true, how much work that would be to create the caulking seam, drive the caulking material home. and stop the seam in thousands of trunnels ... and for what purpose? 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[allanyed]

Totally agree Bob.  I believe the ends were split and wedged thus more reason to caulk the ends.  

Allan

 

[druxey]

End grain and moisture are always an issue that needs to be dealt with.

[wefalck]

My understanding was/is that treenails are slightly tapered and driven into their respective holes from the outside, after having been dipped into tar and the holes themselves also being tarred. The treenail then is spilt inside the hull and the wedge being driven in thus locking (clenching) the treenail. On the outside, the treenails would be planed flush with the planking.

 

Any attempt to caulk a treenail would loosen it in its hole and, hence, compromise its function of locking the planking to structural members of the hull.

 

I am not sure, but I think also that the grain in the treenail was set perpendicular to the run of the planking. Otherwise, as the planks shrink perpendicular to the grain when drying out, the loosening of treenail by the holes becoming larger would be compounded as the treenail also becomes smaller perpendicular to the grain.

[Roger Pellett]

This is a “worth what you paid for it comment” as I claim no expertise in this matter.  Could the word “caulked” in the specifications that Allen quotes somehow relate to requiring that the treenails be wedged?

 

Roger

[wefalck]

That was my thinking also ...

[bruce d]

5 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

 Could the word “caulked” in the specifications that Allen quotes somehow relate to requiring that the treenails be wedged?

Caulking was a trade and was carried out under the eye of the master shipwright. It had specialist tools, agreed rates of pay and working conditions. I have never seen anything that indicated that the job of 'caulker' was concerned with anything other filling the seams and holes of the boat to whatever was the agreed specification of the day and doing it quickly.

Anything is possible but I believe Bob's view ...

16 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

...  the reference is to the practice of sealing the end-grain with tar or pitch inside of the trunnel hole immediately before driving the trunnel or to apply stopping to wedged trunnels which had split or broken edges after driving.

 

... is correct. Some other worker drove and wedged the treenails and the caulker followed behind. 

And don't forget, my comment is worth what you paid.

[Roger Pellett]

Ok,  I looked things up in the book, “Ships’ Fastenings, From Sewn Boats to Steamships” and found several explanations of the practice of caulking treenails.

 

French, Blaise Oliver 1737:

“Once the treenail has been driven in as far as it will go, it is cut off flush with the planking at either end and a small piece of wood called a treenail wedge or spile is hammered into both ends.  To realign the treenail with the sides of the hole. (sic) A thread of oakum is also inserted in a cross-shape  or triangle in the head of each treenail for the same reason, and this is what is called crossing the treenails.”

 

English, Nautical Dictionary, Arthur Young, 1846

” Treenail plugs....a four cornered pin of hardwood with a sharp point driven into the “outer end” of the treenail to perform the the same purpose as a wedge driven from the inner end.”  A Thor Borresen describing an old shipwreck explored in 1939 described this as “an old English method of caulking.”

 

American,  William Corruthers,  American Built Clipper Ship, 1997

The term “spiles” is also used to refer to the wooden “plug” covering bolt heads and deck fastenings.  This is fixed over them and caulked in order to avoid water collecting where the head of a fastening is countersunk below the timbers.

 

As usual,  is would seem to depend on who, when, and where.

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Roger Pellett

[Bob Cleek]

4 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Ok,  I looked things up in the book, “Ships’ Fastenings, From Sewn Boats to Steamships” and found several explanations of the practice of caulking treenails.

 

French, Blaise Oliver 1737:

“Once the treenail has been driven in as far as it will go, it is cut off flush with the planking at either end and a small piece of wood called a treenail wedge or spile is hammered into both ends.  To realign the treenail with the sides of the hole. (sic) A thread of oakum is also inserted in a cross-shape  or triangle in the head of each treenail for the same reason, and this is what is called crossing the treenails.”

 

English, Nautical Dictionary, Arthur Young, 1846

” Treenail plugs....a four cornered pin of hardwood with a sharp point driven into the “outer end” of the treenail to perform the the same purpose as a wedge driven from the inner end.”  A Thor Borresen describing an old shipwreck explored in 1939 described this as “an old English method of caulking.”

 

American,  William Corruthers,  American Built Clipper Ship, 1997

The term “spiles” is also used to refer to the wooden “plug” covering bolt heads and deck fastenings.  This is fixed over them and caulked in order to avoid water collecting where the head of a fastening is countersunk below the timbers.

 

As usual,  is would seem to depend on who, when, and where.

 

Roger

Great information there! Just enough to explain the use of the term, "caulked trunnels." By that is obviously meant, variously, wedging the end of the trunnel, or actually caulking it, but not in the way described by one poster above as driving oakum in the seam between the trunnel and the plank! This latter meaning also better explains the purpose of a "trenail caulking iron" mentioned in the Antique Tool Collectors' Research Forum. http://www.numismalink.com/drew.ency.34.59a.html  I've never before heard of the method described, but it makes perfect sense. The trunnel iron would be a "dumb iron" the width of a trunnel diameter used to split the trunnel end-grain and spread it to create a caulking seam. Oakum would then be driven into the crossed caulking seams in the head of the trunnel with an ordinary spike iron the width of the trunnel diameter, thereby spreading four quadrants of the trunnel end to apply pressure to the sides of the hole. These seams would then be stopped as any other  caulked seam. The term, "caulking," is used consistently here, and properly, to increase the pressure against adjacent faying surfaces in order to create a watertight seal. The inboard end of a through-trunnel would presumably be simply wedged, as watertightness from that end would not be a concern. Trunnels which were set in "blind holes" which were not drilled entirely through the frame, would be "wedged blind," being split at the inboard end with the wedge partially inserted before driving, such that when the trunnel "bottomed out" in the hole, the wedge would be driven fully into the trunnel, spreading the end of the trunnel as it reached the bottom of the blind hole.

 

This mechanics of caulking are often misunderstood by laypersons who think that it is the "caulking" material that "keeps the water out." (Although in modern general usage the term is used to describe the use of putties and tube-packaged goops to seal windows and bathtub seams and so do just that.) Not so. "Caulking" in the shipbuilding sense, is the practice of hammering material between joints to increase the pressure of the faying surfaces against each other which then, with the swelling of the wood in a wet environment, creates a tight seam under great pressure. That tight wood-to-wood joint is what makes the joint watertight.

 

So, if one is anally oriented, it's time for them to start drawing little black (or dark brown) "X's" on the heads of all those over-scale trunnels to which they seem so attached.

 

As for the good Mr. Caruthers' explanation of "caulked" plugs over countersunk fastenings as described above, I have to say "baloney" to that. Plugs are cut so their grain, when in place, will run the same as the host plank, not perpendicular to the surrounding grain, as do trunnels. (Were it otherwise, the plug's end-grain, being "tougher," would wear less than the face of the planks and, in short order, the plugs would begin to stand proud of the plank, resulting in a "bumpy" deck, making holystoning difficult, if not impossible, and protruding plugs liable to being knocked loose over time.) Trunnels, as described earlier, are held in place by being driven drier than the surrounding wood and then swelling up as they absorb moisture. Plugs are driven tight, but are held in place simply by that friction in their holes and may, or may not, be set in thickened shellac or other adhesive to ensure they stay in place. Plugs are not subject to the mechanical stresses that trunnels are. In fact, plugs are subject to little or no stress whatsoever once in place. Coating the countersunk head of an iron fastening with tar before the plug is set is sufficient to retard rusting which could serve to push the plug up and out of the countersunk hole. Traditionally, square-cut bare iron ship's nails had a string of oakum wrapped around the shank beneath their heads and the nail and oakum wrapping dipped in tar immediately before driving the square nail into the smaller round drilled pilot hole for the nail. The same was done beneath the washers with iron bolts and drifts. (This was in later times called "Chinese galvanizing," but I'm not exactly sure why. Perhaps it was a perjorative reference intended to convey a "quick and dirty" cost-cutting practice.) The plug was then set in the countersunk hole. There's no way to "caulk" a countersunk plug because its end-grain can't be split because it runs horizontally, not vertically, as does a trunnel's.  Obviously, if a driven iron fastening were so loose that it was not watertight all on its own, watertightness was the least of its problems! 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[Mark P]

Good Evening gentlemen;

 

That's a whole load of interesting information there. It would appear that I have misunderstood the method by which treenails were caulked, and that this, in this context, means that the caulking was used as a wedge.

 

With regard to paying the seams, though, whilst the meaning of this is clearly understood in terms of the waterproofing of the seams of the deck planking with hot tar, the verb 'to pay' was also used to describe a different activity. This was the regular treatment of the hull below the waterline with hot tar, or other compounds, brushed on. This was carried out at regular intervals, maximum every three years, normally, often much more frequently than that. The whole of the lower part of the hull was so covered, and this process was called 'paying' the ship's bottom. 

 

The ship was first careened. That is forcibly laid over hard, almost onto her beam ends; which was normally done on a hard area of shingle. By this means, one complete side of the hull was made accessible. Its existing coating of tar would then be softened by burning with bundles of dry reed, set alight and held in special metal rods, rather like arquebus rests. The softened tar was then scraped off, and the new coating of fresh tar was applied. Apart from the actual careening, all of these activities were carried out by the caulkers, working, in the Royal dockyards at least, under the direction of the Master Caulker.  This coating of tar would have closed off the seams between the planking below the waterline, sealing in the oakum. The tar was then covered with a layer of 'anti-fouling' made of oil, brimstone and rozin. The boundary of the tarred area was the 'black strake', which was normally the first strake above the wale; below this all was tarred.

 

Above the black strake, as has been mentioned in other posts above, the seams in the sides of the ship, after caulking, were stopped. This was normally done with putty, and in the Royal Navy was actually carried out by the painters, as part of their works. 

 

All the best,

 

Mark P