HM Sloop Echo 1781 by VTHokiEE - 1:48 - Cross-Section

[glbarlow]

Looking really nice, a unit set of new challenges to master, well done!

[VTHokiEE]

@glbarlow Thanks a lot - there have certainly been a lot of challenges to overcome, not certain that I've quite "mastered" any yet though :-).

 

I've been continuing work on the lower deck framing and while not perfect I'm happy with how the cross section is shaping up. I struggled for a little bit trying to determine how to score the mortises (joints?) for the ledges and carlings until I recalled my mantra for this build - go re-read TTFM book 1 and of course there was a nice tip for how to easily make pseudo joints which I attempted to follow. The picture thats follow show how I set the angle for the score on beam and then the finished cut.

 

 

I did my best to get the matching score aligned, but they are slightly off - though it isn't very noticeable until you really start staring at the deck and I think it will be even less noticeable when the upper deck is added (though I will have to be more exact there).

I have to add the center hanging knees and lodging knees before finishing out the deck framing, but here is where I currently stand.

Edited March 31 by VTHokiEE

[Rustyj]

Nice to see you continuing to do such nice work!

[druxey]

Coming along! There are always mistakes which only you will notice. Every step is a learning experience, so the upper deck framing will be perfect. Right?

[VTHokiEE]

@Rustyj Thanks! I’ve had to reset my expectations on how long this project will take, but I’m loving every chance I get to be in the shipyard.

 

@druxey Why of course it will (at least that’ll be my story regardless 😂).

[davec]

Tim - Great to see your progress. The deck framing looks excellent.

[Old Collingwood]

Tim  this  is looking   really sharp  and tidy,   love the  detail you  are putting into  this.

 

OC.

[glbarlow]

It looks so nice, really well done. Your patience and effort to learn the new skills to make this is quite impressive.  

[VTHokiEE]

Thanks @davec @Old Collingwood @glbarlow

 

I was happily continuing with the build when I unfortunately ran into a snag. There was a comment in @tlevine build log for the cross section "Do not measure off the practicum.  Unlike the drawings in TFFM, these drawings are off scale by up to +/- 6%." Unfortunately, I re-read this caution late and now I am faced with an issue to resolve. I used the template provided on page 7 for the lower deck framing and realized that though the scale provided was measuring accurately the template would not fit the deck (it was too small). I made an executive decision to start at the provided centerline, place the carlings as indicated and continue on - this will prove to be an unfortunate mistake.

 

EDIT: The actual mistake was that I placed the template at the edge, by the frame, and measured out from there which allowed for too much space around the centerline. Based on measurements trying to correct this mistake if I actually had measured in from the centerline it would've been fine. 

 

I placed the upper deck clamps, planking and spent some considerable time shaping the waterway. 

 

I then started to think about the pump tubes and noticed that the carlings are not in the correct places. The most problematic are the interior ones in the aft - they landed right on top of the well and provide no space for the pump tubes to go into the well. This also means that the lower deck hatchway will be too large, but I can live with that mistake - I could also probably live with the error on the planked side in the aft and simply pretend that the carling was in the correct place. However, this error will not look right on the unplanned side and it will imply that the pump go through the well wall.

 

I think the best plan is to use some IPA and remove the most offensive two carlings, use filler (huge crossed fingers here) to hide to wrong scores, then carefully file new scores by hand (start crossing my toes here), and add the carlings back in. 

 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 06:30 PM by VTHokiEE
Added actual cause of discrepancy

[Old Collingwood]

Tim  are  you saying that the  Two  rectangular  cut outs  (indicated by the  Two  Large Arrows)  should  be  moved  inwards  to  line up  with  larger  cut out  further forward in yoy picture?

 

OC.

[davec]

Hi Tim-

 

Your model is coming along beautifully.  You’ve done a great job with all your joinery.

 

Placement of those two carlings so the pump shafts run correctly was challenging. I got stuck there and page 3 of my log has a bunch of posts about how I worked through it, as well as Greg’s approach.  I ended up without enough room between the well wall and the inner carling.  As I look back on my model, I ended up not installing the inner carling which allowed enough room for the shafts to run right.  Between the deck and mast partners, it isn’t visible at all on one side (unless you look underneath) and only a corner of the notch is visible on the unplanked side.  I can't remember if I did this deliberately.  I don't remember doing it, and just noticed when I went back to my pictures.

 

As I remember working on the lower deck, 80% of the work was individually shaping the knees and waterway.  If you used a glue that isn’t hard to debond, it might be worth considering redoing the lower deck.  You will be able to reuse the knees and waterway which will save you a ton of time, and this will let you fix both the pump shaft placement and the size of the hatch.

 

If you redo the deck, make sure the space between the well wall and the inner carling is wide enough for a pump shaft and that the width of the carling is narrow enough that the other pump shaft that runs on the other side of it also ends up in the right place.  Only one edge of the carling will be visible on the unplanked side, so you can modify as necessary.

 

Your other solution with debonding the carlings and attached ledges, and moving the carlings to the correct location might be something to try first, but however you patch the current notches will likely be visible (probably a small piece of carefully cut boxwood would work) and it wouldn’t address the hatch size.  You could try this first and if it doesn’t work, then replace the entire deck.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how you proceed.  I'm sure the end result will be great.  Please let me know if I can clarify anything.

 

Dave

[VTHokiEE]

1 hour ago, Old Collingwood said:

Tim  are  you saying that the  Two  rectangular  cut outs  (indicated by the  Two  Large Arrows)  should  be  moved  inwards  to  line up  with  larger  cut out  further forward in yoy picture?

 

Almost, the side of the cutout nearest closer to the frames can probably stay put, but the interior side needs correction. Something like the below where the current carlings, in yellow, are moved closer to the green line.

6 minutes ago, davec said:

If you used a glue that isn’t hard to debond, it might be worth considering redoing the lower deck.

This is on the tables as I used PVA, but I am a little concerned about accidentally doing damage to the frame joints when I try to soak to joints with IPA (there's probably a more a precise way to do it than what I have done in the past though). I probably should use a little less glue the future I think. I'll see how removing the carlings go and see what my options are - leaving the planked carling off is making a lot of sense though so I don't fight myself again with this and it wouldn't be visible in the end regardless. As I wasn't planning to add the pump on the unplanned side so leaving a visible carling there should be fine.

 

I probably should try to address the large grate size though, I need to re-read the practicum and look through the TFFM Vol 1 to see if I can get a more accurate idea for where the carlings should be placed.

[Old Collingwood]

Are the Carlings  sloted  or  just  but  fitted  Tim?    as  I was   wondering if you could  just  cut them  back and  re  place  them.

 

OC.

[dvm27]

Instead of using fillers to repair the errant scores make a small patch using the same wood to fill in the defect. Make sure that the grain matches the direction of the carling (don't use end grain). Once glued in place and sanded flush the defect should be barely perceptible. I have corrected several errant mortises this way.