F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale, Italeri #2515, by Egilman

[Egilman]

4 hours ago, Canute said:

EG, it's good to go, bud. Side panel decals(?) look very good. Instrument panel is very good. Too bad it will be almost hidden in your cockpit. Bet you're crossed-eyed from that detailing job. What's on the radar screen? It has that appropriate green glow of 50's CRTs. Nicely done. 👍👍

Thanks Ken, Appreciate it... Not cross eyed but definitely eye tired from looking through the magnifying glasses.... If your asking about the color I used for the scope, the previous one I used MM pale green, (FS 34227) but it was too light, so this time I used MM Euro Dark Green, FS34092, from a distance it gives a hit of green but up close it shows dark green... a lot like the detail pics I've seen... The side panels are pre-painted photoetch, (eduard #32819) and do have some texture to them, although they do look very nice, they do come off as a bit flat... And your right most of it won't be seen once the cockpit is in the aircraft...

 

Thank you my friend, I think I'll go with it....

[mtaylor]

I agree with Ken and you're making a good decision to go with it.   The only other choice is to canopy open and even then, much of the detail will be hidden.

[Canute]

There are some companies with those 3D decal cockpits, but no 1/32 F104 yet. Yours looks great.

[Egilman]

5 hours ago, mtaylor said:

I agree with Ken and you're making a good decision to go with it.   The only other choice is to canopy open and even then, much of the detail will be hidden.

Thanks Mark, I'm probably going to do Canopy open and a few other panels open as well... The kit gives you just about every option you could want including positionable slats... It will pretty well fit any situational display you can see in a pic... It's a great kit very very well done...

[Egilman]

5 hours ago, Canute said:

There are some companies with those 3D decal cockpits, but no 1/32 F104 yet. Yours looks great.

I believe that 3D decals are the coming thing for doing ultra fine cockpits, they are expanding the line rapidly but alas probably won't get around to the less demanded models until they have saturated the the what everybody wants crowd first...

 

So like this one the modeler will have to decide what works best to get the representation they want... This kit, painting the part is the best way to go IMHO....

 

Thanks, you know what they look like Ken, so that is high praise as far as I'm concerned... Update on the finished cockpit in a few moments...

 

EG

[Egilman]

Finished Cockpit... Sorry bout the pics, it didn't want to photograph well for some reason....

 

I think it fits the picture of the real thing at least it resembles what it should be.... And the seat fits perfectly....

 

EG

 

[Canute]

The clutter looks very appropriate around the seat. You need some instrument approach books and maps in your "magazine" racks.  Nowadays they have a tablet or some such tied down, with all the same data. Never leave home without them.

 

I'm not sure if the Zipper had a safety pin bag for safing the ejection seat. F-4s did, I think there were 7 pins for all the pyrotechnic charges used on a Martin Baker seat. I have one down in my archives. I know the pilots wore "spurs" on their boots. If they had to eject, they jammed their boots back against the front of the seat to lock their legs so they couldn't flail at high speeds. The F-4 and F-105 used garters attached to lanyards that ran from the floor thru the garters to the seat. Again, it was to prevent flailing of legs. Arms usually ended up in your lap, so no special gear.

[popeye the sailor]

good to see I'm early too........I know I have a lot of catching up to do      very nice job on the cockpit........nicely detailed!  fingers are crossed that you can pull it off...look'in forward to see the finish.

 

[Danstream]

Good job on the cockpit, it looks good and the seat with all that harness looks great.

Dan

PS - Eventually, have you put some documents in the magazine holders?

[Egilman]

On 2/14/2022 at 5:34 PM, Canute said:

The clutter looks very appropriate around the seat. You need some instrument approach books and maps in your "magazine" racks.  Nowadays they have a tablet or some such tied down, with all the same data. Never leave home without them.

 

I'm not sure if the Zipper had a safety pin bag for safing the ejection seat. F-4s did, I think there were 7 pins for all the pyrotechnic charges used on a Martin Baker seat. I have one down in my archives. I know the pilots wore "spurs" on their boots. If they had to eject, they jammed their boots back against the front of the seat to lock their legs so they couldn't flail at high speeds. The F-4 and F-105 used garters attached to lanyards that ran from the floor thru the garters to the seat. Again, it was to prevent flailing of legs. Arms usually ended up in your lap, so no special gear.

I would have dropped a couple of papers in them if they would be seen brother, but they won't....

 

Yes they had boot clips they needed to wear, they were nicknamed "spurs" cause they looked the part and clicked on the floor when they walked... When you see a video if a pilot climbing in to an F-104 cockpit with a C-2 ejection seat, you see them pause for a sec and act like they are stomping bugs or something... when they get the other foot in they repeat the motion.. What it is, is the pilot hooking his "spurs" onto the ball end of the foot retracts.. Yes the seat has cable retracts that attach to the feet of the pilot so when he ejects the retracts trigger and pull his feet and legs into the seat frame and lock them there while the seat is fired from the cockpit... There are two arms (red) on the sides of the seat that attach to the webbing that looks all bunched up on the sides.. When the ring is pulled those arms rotate forward pulling the webbing up above shoulder level so the pilots arms don't go flopping around in the windstream ... 

 

The C-1 seat had the same equipment installed after Yeager's ejection experience, the reason he spent six months in the hospital recovering from it was he had two broken arms, a dislocated knee, and a severe concussion from his head buffeting around in the windstream ...  A high speed ejection from a supersonic aircraft is no picnic ... (you could survive the damage to the aircraft but the ejection could kill you anyway, ejection was definitely the last and only option left)

 

As an aside, Yeager had to get a special medical dispensation to continue to fly afterwards, he was too experienced/great a pilot to ground permanently, although his cutting edge test pilot status was lost as well as his shot at becoming an astronaut....

[Egilman]

8 hours ago, popeye the sailor said:

good to see I'm early too........I know I have a lot of catching up to do      very nice job on the cockpit........nicely detailed!  fingers are crossed that you can pull it off...look'in forward to see the finish.

 

Thanks Dennis, oh not that far along yet my finners are crossed as well, but I at least understand what needs to be done this time... but you know me, if there is a way...

[Egilman]

6 hours ago, Danstream said:

Good job on the cockpit, it looks good and the seat with all that harness looks great.

Dan

PS - Eventually, have you put some documents in the magazine holders?

Thanks Dan,  as far as the document holders they aren't seen now and anything of an appropriate size wouldn't be seen either... Absolutely a requirement for a pilot to fly yes, but what's the point of putting in something that no one else can see...

[Egilman]

Ok the next step is the Main Landing Gear Bay... Spent the last day researching colors and configurations... Seems like the design didn't change any over all the various models although the "G" models had it beefed up for the greater all up weights the airframe had to carry... And they were all painted aluminum... (according to AF TO-10)

 

The parts and instructions....

Not a lot here, glue it together and paint it...  The photoetch is interesting though they include brake lines... gonna try and install them, they are kinda visible on this bird... Will probably coat it in  future and do some highlighting to it to make the details pop...

 

Onwards....

 

EG

[Egilman]

Thanks for all the likes brothers, today, another small update..

 

Main Landing Gear Struts....

 

 

In stages start to finish

Initial painting in aluminum and first photoetch... Labels and brake line supports

Brake Lines & Tie Downs....

Hinge Reinforcing plates & Wheel fold Drag Links...

Final overall painted aluminum...

This was a trip 15 parts altogether and some you couldn't see without mag glasses... And this is before the bay itself... This kits going to take a while...

 

I can't say enough about this kit, clearly it is the finest large scale F-104 available... the detail is outstanding... The part sprues have alternative parts for the "G" model as well so both Italieri kits come from the same basic molds... this kit puts the rest to shame... Ten steps over the old Hasegawa kit and at least three over the Tamiya... Lots of work, but well worth it...

 

Onwards to the Bays now....

Edited February 17, 2022 by Egilman

[Egilman]

Well the next update comes fairly quickly.... The Main Gear Bays are an interesting conundrum...

 

Plenty of detail to be added if you follow the PE manufacturers scheme, but none of it will be seen if you follow the Aircraft's configuration when sitting on the ramp....

Down & Locked LG position sitting on the tarmac...

You have about 4" between the sill and the lip of the door... The opposite side...

Look at the door in the gear down position... Then look at the bay behind the gear itself... How much do you see?

Nothing...

 

So I've decided not to install the PE on the inside of the bay, none of it will be seen.... and when sitting on it's gear the forward doors will completely cover it up...

Another issue is parts of the PE are overscale...

Clearly the PE parts do not fit the kit parts... I would have to trim that line of rivets off so the part will even fit... So, rather than go through a days worth of work making the 30 or so PE parts fit properly, and once done, covering them up,  I'm not going to install them.... Not worth the work...

 

I went ahead and completed the steps to finish the Landing Gear Bay build stage with this....

The third of the bay on the landing gear end will be seen, the rest will not... the Air plenum acts as the engine support when the engine is installed inside the model, I installed it cause I haven't decided yet if I'm building it with engine out or not...  I think the dark highlighting of the interior of the bay works, given it will be dark and hardly seen.. it looks the part...

 

The next step is assembling the J79-GE-7 engine....

 

Onwards Brothers...

EG

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Egilman

[Canute]

Well done, EG. Good move, omitting the unseeable PE. The work you've done on the gear looks great. Looking forward to see how you J79 turns out.

[mtaylor]

To add what Ken said, it does look like theres lots of molded details there so would the PE be redundant?

[Old Collingwood]

Sometimes  PE  just adds more headache  and problems   -  looking really good  brother.

 

OC.

[Egilman]

13 hours ago, Canute said:

Well done, EG. Good move, omitting the unseeable PE. The work you've done on the gear looks great. Looking forward to see how you J79 turns out.

Thanks Ken... 

 

One has to be careful when ordering PE, A lot of it, depending on the model, is redundant and some of it just plain useless cause it will never be seen... Now in defense of Eduard, the kit offers you an option to have the forward doors in their normal almost closed position as with all starfighters or fully open showing all that detail except that would never be the way the aircraft was in real life...

 

I guess that justifies creating the PE.... Since I'm building a representation of a real aircraft in a specific moment in it's life I have to go with the real deal, so the PE is out, the doors will be partially closed...

 

Just got thru doing the basic black parts of the engine, pre-assembly stage brother, although I did assemble and paint the engine stand... (gotta have some place to put it)

Edited February 18, 2022 by Egilman

[Egilman]

13 hours ago, mtaylor said:

To add what Ken said, it does look like theres lots of molded details there so would the PE be redundant?

Short answer Mark is no it isn't redundant but the part with all the detail is the exposed part that will have a chance of being seen behind the landing gear.. 95% of the PE goes into the space under the door or on the door insides itself.... the only people that usually get to see it is the people that made them or the overhaul people that would take those doors off...

 

Just isn't any point to it..

[Egilman]

10 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

Sometimes  PE  just adds more headache  and problems   -  looking really good  brother.

Thanks Brother..

 

Yes, sometimes it is more problem than solution.... What I wish is there was reviews of the PE parts that actually discussed the efficacy of some of the detail sets... (what's needed and what isn't) They are nice, but just aren't worth it if modeling an accurate object at times...

[Egilman]

Short update... The J79-GE-7

 

Complicated engine, and this is only one color configuration, there are dozens of others... Like this one.....

Or this one...

They varied greatly depending on model and date of manufacturer... All the above are F-104 engines...

 

The scheme the instructions give is the intake and first half of the compressor is gull grey, the high end of the compressor is steel... The mixing chamber is aluminum and the firing chamber and turbine/AB injector section is  exhaust color and of course the afterburner is burnt metal... The tail cone actuator ring is gunmetal and the tail cone is burnt metal....

 

Of course there are not the colors I see in the above pictures of actual engines... So the only thing I see accurate is basically the intake section is aircraft grey with various detail colors and the high end compressor is grey steel, other than that, it is all over the place...

 

I do have a shot of a J-79 from the USAF museum set up as a display piece.... completely clean....

This is what it would look like when first installed in the aircraft brand spanking new.... (in fact as a display piece it is cleaner than brand spanking new)

So coloration is all over the map but I have a general idea of what it should look like, and interpretation is the name of the game... I only hope it looks like a jet engine when I'm done with it...

 

Anyway, here is the first steps on the path to high thrust to weight ratio bling...

 

The engine stand graciously provided by Italeri represents a number of actual stands used at various museums and works very well... 

 

Next up assembling this beast and painting.... basics and details.... Wish me luck...

 

EG

Edited February 18, 2022 by Egilman

[Danstream]

It might be quite fun spraying the different shades of colors and it just needs to convey the impression of that complex machine. I remember the distinctive howling of the J-79 when the Italian Starfighters were a common seen. 

Good luck with the engine.

Cheers,

Dan

[Egilman]

11 minutes ago, Danstream said:

It might be quite fun spraying the different shades of colors and it just needs to convey the impression of that complex machine. I remember the distinctive howling of the J-79 when the Italian Starfighters were a common seen. 

Good luck with the engine.

Cheers,

Dan

Thanks Dan, it's going to be interesting for sure, I'm doing this with a furry stick, I don't own an airbrush... {chuckle}

Everything I've done so far in my sig has been done with furry sticks (brushes) and rattlecans... Old school I know... And easy to screw up....

 

And thanks, I can use all the luck I can get....

[Canute]

The burner cans and nozzle eyelids were a lot of titanium, burnt bluish gray as a dark color and almost ash gray for highlights. I'd go with the colors on that last F-104 engine for an in-use one. The one from Wright-Patterson is way too clean.

 

Yep, they definitely had a howl, as did the Cs and Ds. The E model had more of a rumble, since the visible eyelids were longer. No mistaking that sound.

[Egilman]

20 minutes ago, Canute said:

The burner cans and nozzle eyelids were a lot of titanium, burnt bluish gray as a dark color and almost ash gray for highlights. I'd go with the colors on that last F-104 engine for an in-use one. The one from Wright-Patterson is way too clean.

Thanks Ken..

I was looking at a refurb engine, used but ready to re-install rather than an overhaul pull... more along the lines of this...

I know it's upside down, but it does represent a cleaned up pull or ready to go re-install...  And the colorations appear correct for the preponderance of them I've seen... (yeah the museum's display is way too clean and sparkly) but the German one is way too dark in my opinion, looks well used...

 

I think the above sample is a fairly good rendition of a decent used J79... It's actually a GE-11 rather than a -7 but that should be close enough... The burner can is a bluish brown tinged dark grey, the afterburner is a bluish tinged metallic and the nozzle is a bluish tinged burned steel/iron... It's clearly not a re-manufactured engine and it does look complete like a length of hours maintenance pull or something...

 

I want the effect of a used engine but not worn out....

 

Think I'm on the right track?

[Canute]

Yep, you are. The AB eyelids almost look like the ones on an E model, but ours were J79-GE-17 models. Keep on digging up this stuff.

[Danstream]

14 hours ago, Egilman said:

it's going to be interesting for sure, I'm doing this with a furry stick, I don't own an airbrush...

Yes, old style, but I have seen spectacular results with furry sticks. You might search, f.i., for the works of Paul Coudeyrette if you like. (I do not even mention that I am living in the home town of Rembrandt). I think that using a combination of selected rattle cans, dry brushing and accent dyes you can still do a lot. For metallic heat discoloration, you might consider Tamiya powders designed for that (blue, red and dark palettes). I have seen videos where Gunze metallic paint can be laid down very well by a flat brush. In addition, there are no glossy parts (or really few) on an engine, mostly are matt or satin conversion coatings or protective coatings. Non-glossy finishes are much more forgiving. If you desire a glossier finish, you might consider starting with a matter finish and then glossy it up with a transparent layer from a rattle can.

I continue watching and I wish you even more good luck. 😉

Dan

Edited February 19, 2022 by Danstream

[Edwardkenway]

Phew! What a lot to catch up on! I need more time😏

The instrument panel is excellent EG, very nice intricate brush work!

PS, I've sent out for more brittle Lou😊

[Egilman]

12 hours ago, Canute said:

Yep, you are. The AB eyelids almost look like the ones on an E model, but ours were J79-GE-17 models. Keep on digging up this stuff.

Thanks my friend,

 

The early models had 16 lids and the late models had 24, I have both in the kit... The early version is open and the late version is closed... Now BlueJay 4 being a late "C" model should have the cone with 24 lids... I saved the thrust cone off the old Hasegawa kit, it's an open 24, so If I do decide to display the engine out of the aircraft I'll use the closed 24 for it and the open one in the tail... I can't find any info on when they changed from one to the other, and I've seen shots of the 24 on engines as early as a -5.. so it was a retro-fitted upgrade... The 24 would be the most common one... I imagine by the time the F-4 went into service they were all 24's...

 

Your info is invaluable brother,  Thanks a BUNCH!...