Best result on a single-planked hull

[CaptnBirdseye]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but i couldn't find the answer. I have 1:84 Deagostini Victory build, which is almost at the planking stage. Looking forward a little, because this kit is only single planked, what is the best way to acheive a look without seeing the pin holes in the planking? I haven't fully decided on the 'naked' or 'painted' look, but if i go for the former the pinholes will obviously show.

 

Thanks in advance

Gray

[Gregory]

Quote

 

best way to acheive a look without seeing the pin holes 

 

Don't use pins/nails.😁

I would look at some of the Winchelsea builds, like Chuck's:

And Glenn Barlow's

 

They go into a lot of detail about how they plan and execute the planking.  I believe they both use CA glue for planking.

Tapering, edge bending and spiling will be important.

You might be at a disadvantage with the relatively fewer bulkheads, unless you do some filling.

Fairing will also be important.

 

 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Filling and fairing will help as posted above.  Even on double planked kits, the same 'pin hole' question applies.  Pre-bending planks (with trial fitting) takes most of resistance out of the wood to be applied.  I used 'finger clamping' after mixing a small amount of 'one minute' epoxy as an adhesive ... this was before the advent of CA.  Be careful will CA, as it can go everywhere (including fingers) without a micro-tip applicator.

 

   Hmmmmm,     this JUST got me thinking about a new approach I haven't seen yet.  What if one glued extra wood just along the sides (or even just one side) of each bulkhead along the edge - sort of like a ship 'ribs' in contact with the bulkhead - but perhaps twice as thick as the kit supplied bulkhead.  This would be easiest to do before assembling the frame, but even so, one could glue successive pieces roughly the shape needed to each bulkhead - and then sand them when fairing.

 

  Then, as one planked from the bottom up, there would be a 'ledge' to clamp against so there'd be no need for pins or brads even with slower curing glue.

 

 

 

[Gregory]

13 minutes ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

Be careful will CA, as it can go everywhere (including fingers) without a micro-tip applicator.

 

I think CA has got a bad rep because people think of bad experiences with really thin stuff that goes everywhere.  Using a medium or thick CA in small amounts, in the right place, is as good as using nails.

Making sure the plank is the shape you want before you glue it down is another important consideration..

 

I also like the idea of partial filling to thicken the bulkheads to help with providing a larger surface.

 

Some people frown on double planking, but really, what's the difference in an extra layer of planks for smoothing and fairing or a lot more bulkheads or frames that provide a more continuous surface?

[allanyed]

57 minutes ago, Gregory said:

Don't use pins/nails

Gray,   I TOTALLY agree with the comment from Gregory concerning pins.   It is not necessary.  Do read the tutorial on planking by David Antscherl in the Articles data base here at MSW and watch the Youtube videos by Chuck Passaro.  These will enable you to do a proper planking job.    If done well there is no need for pins or clamps.    If you do need clamps for the planks  that are not quite right  the method John mentions sounds like it has possibilities.  Be careful though that you do not dent the planks with the clamps.

 

Study some planking expansion drawings as well.  You will see how the planks narrow going forward and widen astern.   There are several high res planking expansion drawings on the Wiki Commons web site as low res plans on the RMG Collections site.   One example of a low res from RMG is https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-83495    

 

Allan

 

 

[glbarlow]

Thanks for the linked reference. 
 

Pre-bending is essential, in my experience Chuck’s heating technique, which I use exclusively noe, is the way to go. 
 

In my opinion and experience CA is the most effective and reliable adhesive for planking. Not all CA is created equal, I use Smith Industries medium. Applied correctly it work great. As noted I do my best to describe all this in both my Cheerful and Winchelsea logs, both single planked ships, no pin holes needed. 

[Gregory]

I'm really sold on Bob Smith also.

  I recently gave this a try:

 

...And I really like it 

[CaptnBirdseye]

Thanks to you all for your replies. Not sure if it’s the ‘easiest’ method, but Chuck’s method would seem the way to go (if I can get the hang of it 😬).

I had wondered if anyone would recommend cutting the pin heads off and recessing them, then fill when sanding with the dust.

Question: can Chucks method be used on bluff bows and steeply raked stern of Victory?

[glbarlow]

2 minutes ago, RockinBudgie said:

Chucks method be used on bluff bows and steeply raked stern of Victory

It really is easier, takes a little to get used to but once you do you'll never go back to soaking.  The planks have to be bent to shape on two planes, heating is the best way to do that.  There is very little limit to how much a quality piece of wood can be bent....and often unbent if you go too far.  You can't force it into shape with nails. You actually bend them 'the wrong way' to get the fit.  Check out the logs, there are also videos somewhere with the method explained by Chuck.

 

The sawdust method is a good way to correct mistakes, you aren't going to be able to universally do that on every plank without it showing.

[rudybob]

3 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

  The planks have to be bent to shape on two planes, heating is the best way to do that.  

If I heat bend in one plane fine but when I heat bend in another plane in the same area my previous bend goes away. I am specifically referring to my pinnace build at the bow. So I try to bend in two planes concurrently. It can be done but not at my skill level. What would you suggest? Thanks  

[Gregory]

Once you have the vertical bend, the lateral bend is usually easy to do in place with pressure..  At least that has been my experience..  Glenn might have other advice.

[Gregory]

Scroll down for a couple of great videos by Chuck.

 

 

[Jaager]

3 hours ago, RockinBudgie said:

this kit is only single planked, what is the best way to acheive a look without seeing the pin hole

It does not come down to any sort of comparative contest.  About the only way to get a proper run of planking strakes on a hull is for them to have proper support that is also fared to the proper conformation.  A support that is 50% room and 50% space is probably right at the bitter edge of being enough.  A support that is a single edge of narrow plywood and with it being mostly weak end grain is potential disaster.

 

This means filling between every mold.   The common method of using supposedly easy to shape Basswood or (don't do it!) Balsa is easy to fit between the molds  in a horizontal orientation-  disc sander.    But beyond this point it is seriously difficult the pare down and shape.  You are working on the whole hull.  It would probably be easier to have just done the hull as carved WL layers.

Doing the filling with construction Pine in a vertical orientation is easier.  It requires some basic lofting, but using existing lines. It is rough and near final shaped as individual units off the hull.

 

Using pins as clamps when the support is end grain ply seems like a path of endless frustration.  

I question whether your base kit is of sufficient quality to earn the privilege of having a bare wood hull. It probably needs to be painted.

1:84 is too small a scale to even think about having visible trunnels.  

If you choose trunnels, it is all or none.   Proper number per land in the proper orientation.

All brass or all bamboo or a mixture has precedent with models from the past.   Steel pins is a total disaster.  We live on a water planet.

 

Do the best you are able with the kit that you have,  but it is best to consider it a learning exercise.  sows ear - silk purse

[Dziadeczek]

I generally plank only once, am too lazy to double plank the same thing. What for, anyway?

After preliminary shaping (spiling) and heat prebending wetted planks off the model, I first place a plank dry (without glue) on the hull and make sure it fits there perfectly.

Then I apply small bead (drop) of glue (Titebond or white Elmer's glue) to the edges of all bulkheads where the plank will be laying on and a thin layer along one of its edges, and place it there. 

I use ordinary tailor's steel pins and gently tap each one with a small jewelry hammer (3 or 4 taps will suffice) but not through the plank but rather along its lower edge, into the bulkhead. ( I plank from the wale down, towards the keel, one plank on each side) to keep it there while the glue dries. The pins exort enough pressure to keep the plank in place, tightly agains bulkheads.

That way, after the plank's glue dries, and I remove the pins, there will be NO sign (holes) from them. 

Procede with each plank like this and, after pins removal, do the same with subsequent plank until you cover the entire hull.

Here is an old pic showing the process during the construction of my MS Rattlesnake model.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Dziadeczek

[navarcus]

A very tiny drop of water will swell the wood closing the hole. Sorry if that was already mentioned.

[Jaager]

16 minutes ago, navarcus said:

drop of water will swell the wood closing the hole

Another old old suggestion (I do no remember the author)  was to chisel a flap of wood, drill the hole under the flap, and when all was done, counter sink the pin and glue the flap back down.   Wait!  I think that was for Oak quarter round.

[glbarlow]

The points about the suitability of a model for single planking are valid, if there is too much space between bulkheads you’re just making bulding hard. Plus a model designed for double planking is just that, other aspects of the model are designed for the thickness of the second planking. The other benefit is the second planking is going to be neater than the first given the support it’s provided. 
 

Single or double, heat bending, I see Gregory liked the videos, is the way to go. The vertical bending has to be done first. Done right the bending the wrong way thing) it’s purpose mostly eliminates the need for a lateral bend even for a bluff bow. The upswept stern needs lateral help, it’s just practice on how to gently hold heat and bend. More challenging sure but it won’t erase the vertical bend. 

As you can read, there are lots of opinions, my logs show how heat bending works for me, including the smaller and simpler Flirt. Test and try thing out. 

[Gregory]

52 minutes ago, navarcus said:

A very tiny drop of water will swell the wood closing the hole. Sorry if that was already mentioned.

Nailing and covering up the hole, will never solve the problems of trying to lay a straight plank on a curved surface

[Gregory]

26 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

my logs show how heat bending works for me, i

Do tell..

[mtaylor]

Here's my way.... I use bulletin board push pins and also some clothes pins that have been modified.   No pin holes in the planks.