Airbrush Paint

[CLovehitch]

Hello any suggestions for a good acrylic paint for airbrushes?

I have Model Expo Paint I was wondering if I could use those paints and thin them down?

Thank you Nick

[CLovehitch]

If someone can recommend a bottle flat paint for airbrushing please let me know.

I am planning to order an airbrush system soon

Thank you Nick

[Bob Cleek]

Let me say at the outset that Kurt Van Dahm (kurtvd19 - Model Ship World™) is the expert on all things airbrush around here. You should shoot him a message and I'm sure he will be happy to give you the best answer you will get from anybody. He is also some sort of a rep for Badger Airbrush Co., I believe. Anyway, he can recommend the best airbrush and compressor to acquire in your price range and probably know where to get the best deal on it.

 

As for your question about thinning acrylic paint for airbrushing, the answer is yes, it is entirely possible to thin regular acrylic paint to the consistency required for airbrushing. (In fact, most airbrushers condition all their paint for airbrushing regardless of what some manufacturer says on their tiny overpriced bottles. Pre-thinned paint "for airbrushing" is just paying good money for more cheap thinner and less expensive pigment!) That said, you should be very careful to use the particular paint's manufacturer's recommended thinner. Some acrylics are thinned with water and some with alcohol and some with a proprietary thinner which is probably alcohol and Windex or something, but who knows for sure.  YouTube is full of videos teaching how to make your own acrylic paint thinners to save money.  Such homebrews should always be tested before use on a finished piece, of course.

 

Many hobby paint manufacturers sell clear flat coatings for spraying over finishes that are too glossy. Flattening solutions can also be added to the paint and many manufacturers sell their paint not only in many colors, but also in a variety of finishes between flat and high gloss. I only use flat finishes on ship models. Gloss finishes are for automobile models, I expect. 

 

While I have had good results with alcohol-thinned acrylic paints, water-thinned acrylic paints have proven something of a challenge. Airbrushing is designed to spray atomized paint on a surface where it dries very quickly. Unlike alcohol, water doesn't dry quickly at all and it's easy to spray "wet on wet" and make a mess of it. For this reason, I am not a fan of water-thinned acrylic paint, or any other acrylic paint (for a variety of reasons,) but that is just my own personal preference. I have gone increasingly to using tubed artists' oil paints, which can be thinned with any number of solvents with different drying characteristics and can be conditioned with retarding or accelerating agents and flattening additives to achieve a wide range of effects. In the long run, quality artists' oil paint is far less expensive than small bottles of paint sold by the hobby companies, of better quality in many cases, and much easier to mix your own colors from a small pallete of basic colors. Other folks' mileage may differ, I'm sure.

[CLovehitch]

Thank you for your insight!

Nick

[Roger Pellett]

I did recently complete a paint job for a model using homebrew acrylic paints.  I started with a small selection of quality acrylic artist paints.  These come in tubes. Quality is important as you need finely ground pigments.  I mixed my own 18th Century colors; a dull red and Drab.  I mixed the resulting color with some acrylic Matt Medium, and thinned the mixture to airbrush consistency.  It worked well.

 

Would I do it again?  At the moment I’m supplementing my stash of Floquil Paints for use on my current project!

 

Roger

Edited August 30, 2023 by Roger Pellett

[robert952]

@Bob Cleek Thanks for posting your detailed response.  At the risk of hijacking this thread but an apropos continuation here's a couple of questions. 

 

I have a model in process and I am pondering on I will paint it. I dug out my old air brush so I can practice with it. 

 

And I have seen more and more articles covering the use of oil-based artist's colors.  The arguments seem very valid.  So, I may give them a try.  

 

I plan to seal the model before painting and wonder how oil based paints work with sealed wood? Do you use another coating of some kind over the sealant before spraying oil based colors?

 

One thing I will add to the discussion, be sure to practice using the airbrush with your 'brew.'  A minor shift in the "brew"  can make a big difference on the finished project.  (My experience comes from long ago when I was doing photo retouching and graphic art type stuff.)  

[Bob Cleek]

1 hour ago, Roger Pellett said:

At the moment I’m supplementing my stash of Floquil Paints for use on my current project!

Sarcasm? Not quite sure. Could it be that Floquil paint is again available? I checked eBay where there has long been old bottles of Floquil offered for sale, but now I see a lot more and a new style label for "Floquil Marine Colors." I don't recall Floquil ever having a line of marine colors. "Railroad colors," yes, but "marine," no. Could it possibly be true that Floquil is being made again? "I love the smell of Dio-sol in the morning... Smells like... like modeling!"

 

I sure did love Floquil paints, as did everybody. Just like doing anything your mother used to yell at you about because "it might put your eye out" guaranteed it would really be fun, Floquil seems to have proven the point that whatever they say might cause the loss of brain cells and destroy the environment as we know it guaranteed to be the best stuff for the job!  

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[Bob Cleek]

1 hour ago, robert952 said:

I plan to seal the model before painting and wonder how oil based paints work with sealed wood? Do you use another coating of some kind over the sealant before spraying oil based colors?

Sealing bare wood before painting is decidedly a good idea, particularly considering the open-grained species provided by many kit manufacturers. For a number of very good reasons, my own preference for sealing is clear ("white") shellac which can be purchased pre-mixed at most any paint or hardware store. (Zinsser 1-qt. Clear Shellac Traditional Finish and Sealer (Case of 4) 00304H - The Home Depot) Shellac is compatible with all common coatings, whether oil or water based. There is no need to apply anything over shellac before painting nor anything over the paint after painting. The less applied to the model, the better, so as to avoid the loss of crisp detail from thick coating applications.

[CPDDET]

Badger Airbrush makes their own line of paints. They come airbrush ready and I have used them with great success.

I'm sure Kurt could expound on this product.

[Dr PR]

One word of caution about using flat/satin paints. If you plan on adding decals to the model you should use glossy paints. Decals will have a foggy appearance on the "transparent" parts if added over flat/sating paints. The background will be invisible on glossy paints. After adding the decals spray a flat or satin overcoat to seal the decals and get the dull finish.

[Canute]

Bob, Floquil did have a marine line of paints, but they disappeared eons ago, maybe when I/R took over. They also had a line of stains, too. Anyway, Testors bought them out and Floquil was dropped. Nobody builds models any more they said. Marketeers at their finest.

 

Happily Badger has a useful acrylic line and Tru-Color (lacquer based) is making some ship colors, the usual WW II stuff. The Japanese have some good acrylic and lacquer paints. It pays to experiment with them. I would say if you're thinning/conditioning a paint, use the thinner from that company. Going off brand could turn your beautifully blended paint mix into a glob of ,,,

[Roger Pellett]

Bob,  No sarcasm intended.  If I were to build another wooden model, I would repeat the acrylic paint experiment again.  It worked well and seems to be holding up fine in the model’s glass cased environment.

 

My present project will have virtually no exposed wooden surfaces.  The hull shell plating is shellacked paper and the rest of the model brass.  It is also small scale, 1:96 as opposed to 1:32 for my last project, and paint film thickness matters..  I like Floquil paint.  It lays down a nice thin film.  I have some unopened bottles bought years ago and have found the rest on EBay.

 

Roger

[Landlubber Mike]

I'd probably stick with paints made for airbrushing, unless you pre-test and the paints airbrush to your satisfaction.  I airbrush with Vallejo, Tamiya, Mr. Color and other airbrush paints all the time, and never have a problem.  Specifically, I've never had any of the problems airbrushing water-based acrylics from Vallejo that Bob has mentioned - the paints are specially designed to be airbrushed and are already pre-mixed/thinned so you just put it in your airbrush and go to town (I usually add a drop of Vallejo Thinner and sometimes Flow Improver, but that's it).  I will note that while Vallejo says that Vallejo Model Colors (the non-airbrush line) can be used in an airbrush after adding their thinner, they do note that certain colors may not airbrush very well, so I typically stick with their Model Air and Game Air line for airbrush work.

 

Unless Model Expo paint has changed, I found it to be very thick (and frankly, not very good) and wouldn't bother trying to make it work in an airbrush.  You can get Vallejo and other brand airbrush paints for a relatively low cost and they offer tons of colors.

 

Regarding cost - not to appear insensitive to expenses, but sure you can get a big jug of craft paint for a relatively low cost, but how much paint do you really need?  My guess is that eventually one will throw out most of the bottle after it dries out since you don't need much paint when painting models (as opposed to doing canvas paintings or other larger scale painting projects).  The small Vallejo dropper bottles for example cost about $3, and have excellent coverage per drop of paint.  I don't think I've finished a bottle yet after a few years of airbrushing.  You can't beat the convenience.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Landlubber Mike

[Mercator]

To seal the wood I use Decoart sealer which is inexpensive, easily available and water based.

Like everyone I miss the Floquil paints, then Model Master went by the wayside also. I do still have a few Floquil including their gold paint.

Humbrol (acrylic and enamel) are great paint, also been using Tamiya. For wood models and figurines I use Liquitex in tubes, Liquitex has their 

own airbrush thinner, I did purchase a small book that teach you how to mix the different colors that achieve what you want. Being made for hand brushing you can retouch very easily. When I mix with the airbrush thinner I try to achieve a consistency of milk (not the 2%).

The Liquitex airbrush thinner does contain a thinning agent and a retarder, you could make it yourself but the Liquitex is inexpensive and goes a long way. For cleaning water does the job.

[Capt. Kelso]

Nick, I'm not a fan of acrylic paints but have had to adjust to using them. I have used Model Expo paints and thinned them using both Tamiya Acrylic thinner and my homemade thinner. My homemade brew is just as good as Tamiya and less expensive in the long run. I learned how to make my own surfing YouTube and various modeling sites. I settled on a mixture found in Cybermodeler Online, Tech Tip: Make Your Own Acrylic Thinner (cybermodeler.com). There are four ingredients, Distilled water, Isopropyl Alcohol, Acrylic Flow Improver and Acrylic Fluid Retarder. Windex works great as a cleaner. You can find the Fluid Retarder, Flow Improver at Arts and Crafts Stores or Walmart. Actually, I found everything at my local Walmart.

 

I make about 12oz in a plastic squeeze bottle when needed, it's great for thinning and cleaning the airbrush. I found when airbrushing acrylics add a couple of extra drops of Retarder to the paint cup.

Model Expo paint out of the jar is thick and requires a lot of thinner. Every time I use acrylics there is a trial-and-error process to get the correct flow. Just takes practice.

 

 

[Bob Cleek]

On 8/31/2023 at 9:02 AM, Landlubber Mike said:

Regarding cost - not to appear insensitive to expenses, but sure you can get a big jug of craft paint for a relatively low cost, but how much paint do you really need?  My guess is that eventually one will throw out most of the bottle after it dries out since you don't need much paint when painting models (as opposed to doing canvas paintings or other larger scale painting projects).  The small Vallejo dropper bottles for example cost about $3, and have excellent coverage per drop of paint.  I don't think I've finished a bottle yet after a few years of airbrushing.  You can't beat the convenience.

I doubt anybody who is mixing their own colors and conditioning their own paint are buying "big jugs of craft paint" because large quantities aren't required and acrylic "craft paint" isn't the quality that most would want in terms of pigment size and amount. What most are using, be it acrylic or oil-based are the tubed artists' colors that contain paint that's the consistency of toothpaste. These colors can be bought in tubes of various sizes, so you can buy a larger tube of white and black and smaller tubes of any other color you want. In general, ship modeling doesn't demand a large palette of colors at all. The tubed artists' paints have a very long shelf life if the caps are cleaned and tightly closed. Artist's oil paints don't have any driers added in the tube and the user applies drier to their own taste. Before the Japan drier is added, it takes practically forever to dry (polymerize, actually.) Because of the smaller quantities of artists' oils required, (the thick tubed paint is thinned greatly for use, so you aren't paying "paint" prices for a lot of thinner) it doesn't hurt to spend a bit more for the high-quality tubed colors which have finely ground pigment and lots of it.

[Jaager]

The only difficulty that I see with using artist's oils is if the final color used is a custom mix.  If not enough was prepared with the first go,  I foresee a superhuman effort plus luck required to get an exact match with a second go for spot repairs.

 

It may be that I have only seen selected examples, but compared to organic solvent based pigments and binders,  the water based acrylics look - flat - chalky - pastel-like and without the depth of enamels.

[Roger Pellett]

I personally see no reason to obsess about exact color matches for paint as in the real world, paint colors are affected by many variables.  This is particularly true when paints were mixed on the job.  Also, different colors reflect light and weather differently, and then there’s the scale effect.

 

For the last model that I completed I mixed my own colors.  Four  were required: Dark Brown topsides, Drab inboard, Red Oxide trim, And White below the waterline.  While I had some General formulae, my mark 1 eyeball was the final judge.

 

Roger

[Bob Cleek]

5 hours ago, Jaager said:

The only difficulty that I see with using artist's oils is if the final color used is a custom mix.  If not enough was prepared with the first go,  I foresee a superhuman effort plus luck required to get an exact match with a second go for spot repairs.

 

It may be that I have only seen selected examples, but compared to organic solvent based pigments and binders,  the water based acrylics look - flat - chalky - pastel-like and without the depth of enamels.

Yes, there's a bit of a learning curve to color matching. Keeping a record of the proportions of color (measured by the length of paint paste extruded from the tube) and color "chips" for matching, plus slowly "creeping up" on the color as the perfect match mixture is approached are helpful. Using hypodermic syringes to measure paint amounts is also helpful. Or you can simply mix more than you expect you'll need and save the excess in a container for later use. Alternately, there are so many premixed oil paint colors offered already that it's hard to believe the exact color someone wanted couldn't be had "right out of the tube." That said, it's always better to have paint left over than to run short before the job is done! 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of water-based acrylics. It seems to me that these disadvantages are more pronounced in the cheaper product ranges and probably is a consequence of lower quality pigments, the most cost-determinative ingredient in paint. I've have become more circumspect in expressing my low opinion of acrylics in comparison to oil-based enamels, not out of any concern for other people's feelings, but because I just can't be bothered responding to their whining. There was a time when I'd actually enjoy arguing with people online about such subjects in pursuit of a "right answer," but it seems cyberspace is polluted with people who are only pretending to seek information, and instead are only just fishing for compliments and affirmation. and who, when they encounter the slightest resistance to their positions, get all bent out of shape. Frankly, I can't see any practical reason whatsoever to prefer acrylic paint over solvent-based oil paint and in our modern "Special Olympics" world where everybody gets a participation trophy, nobody's forcing me to compete. 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[Jaager]

4 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

I personally see no reason to obsess about exact color matches for paint as in the real world, paint colors are affected by many variables.

I am not worried about matching an outside chip.  I am saying that once I have a mixture of pigments that I like, but have not prepared enough, it would be difficult to get an exact replication.

I have found that even the eee tincyest bit of black can have a profound effect on the final color.  I like pure colors, but I think that scale effect tends to grey pigments.  It would probably be wiser to use a slight grey instead of going directly to black to dull.

 

the effect is like this:

On an lark - once in the lab, I setup a two burette - dilute HCL - dilute NaOH  - large beaker of pure water and a pH meter probe - to see if I could titrate to a desired pH.  It was essentially impossible without doing it in a buffered solution - pure acid vs pure base had the pH meter dial mimicking  a windshield wiper on high. 

Doing that was a lesion that just reading could never impart as profoundly.

[Cleat]

I bought a Createx 6-pack of basic colors because my local art supply shop carries the brand.  With the 6-pack I can mix most any color I want (except brown - I haven't figured that one out).  I mix small quantities of paint just to fill the airbrush bowl and I try to write down how many drops of each color I mix; I've discovered that I might need to mix the same color again if my first batch isn't enough or I have to touch up later.    

[mtaylor]

For the brown, see if this will help: https://www.masterclass.com/articles/how-to-make-brown-paint