Armstrong Frederick Cannon by allanyed - 1:24 scale

[allanyed]

Lately I have taken a lot of interest in cannon from the Pitt pattern and Brown pattern era up to and including the Blomefield pattern era.  For a change of pace I decided to do a little project building an Armstrong Frederick 24 pounder circa 1760-1790.   First up was to make drawings of the cannon and the carriage.  The carriage drawing was printed on label paper and a copy on regular bond as well.  The PDF is much clearer than the jpg below so I have attached it as well.   Carriage and cannon Parts ID.PDF

 

The brackets (or cheeks) were first up.   Castello is used for the carriage, but any tight grained species would work.   A slat of appropriate thickness was cut and thickness sanded, then cut in two to make a sandwich.  A few dots of PVA just outside the periphery of the brackets was used to hold the two pieces together.  The bracket drawing on the label paper was then cut and adhered to the wooden sandwich.    

The brackets were cut out but not the mortises for the axles nor the half holes for the trunnions as the brackets will not be sitting parallel to each other.

 

Allan

 

 

 

[druxey]

Are the brackets (in the plan view) angled in a little too severely? On carriages I've seen, the taper is about the same as that of the cannon barrel. Or am I wrong?

[thibaultron]

I drew up a comparison of the barrel to the carriage, and the drawing is correct.

 

First the drawing with a rough line parallel to the barrel, and center lines on the top view of the carriage.

 

 

Then I transposed the barrel lines onto the top view.

 

 

 

So while the carriage looks overly angular, it is an optical illusion. the angle is correct.

 

 

[Lieste]

It does still look a bit too steep. The brackets are closer at the transom and wider at the sole than the red line for the taper. Check against the tables of dimension but I'd narrow the rear and slightly widen the transom going purely by eye...

[Kris Avonts]

Just as a check for the angles, I made a superposition of the top view in the pdf document over a contemporary drawing of 1775 (see post #8 in the 'Gun Carriage questions' thread).

 

 

The image from the pdf (red colour) was scaled, respecting the ratio, to align both wheel axles. The comparison of the angles seem to give evidence for druxey’s observation.

 

best regards,

   Kris

[druxey]

That is what I would expect to see, Kris. Thanks for posting the comparison. 2 degrees is a figure that sticks in my mind.

[allanyed]

Below is the barrel superimposed on the carriage and it does look to be too much angle.   The barrel taper is indeed 2 degrees and the brackets

are 4 1/2 degrees.   Thanks for all your observations!!

Allan

Edited September 3, 2023 by allanyed

[allanyed]

The drawing has been modified with the brackets at 2.5 degrees rather than 4.5 degrees.  Always easier to fix the drawing than an assembled carriage😀

Allan

 

[druxey]

That looks much more like it! Good save, Allan.

[allanyed]

7 hours ago, druxey said:

That looks much more like it! Good save, Allan.

Thanks to you Druxey.  Even if you really were an old decayed piece of timber as your name implies you have been a heck of a savior many times over for a lot of us.

Cheers

Allan

[allanyed]

For the mortises for the axle trees,  holes for the bed bolt and the cut out for the trunnions, wedges had to be made.  The wedges were sized to have the brackets at the required 2 degree angle rather than lying flat.  I first tried with temporary axletrees to get the brackets at the proper angle but this was not necessary. Using wedges as in the drawing below was easier and worked well. (Sorry forgot to take a photo)  These openings are perpendicular to the bore of the cannon barrel so the brackets could not just rest flat when the mortises for the axletrees and drilling were done.  The wedges were then temporarily glued in place with a tiny dot of PVA.  This temporary assembly was then drilled and cut.  Note that in order to get a properly placed partial hole for the trunnions sacrificial pieces were temporarily glued on top of the brackets and were large enough to drill a full hole, then the temporary pieces were removed.

Allan

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by allanyed

[druxey]

Nice hack, Allan!

[allanyed]

 Rendering perfectly round ends on the axletrees is not difficult.  There is no need to try to carve and file these, which is imprecise and takes a lot of time, especially if a project requires dozens of guns. In this case I used a piece of brass rod and a 0.25" drill bit to make an axle cutter.  The hole is drilled in the rod with any type of drill and a hacksaw was used to cut small slots, creating teeth.   It would be easier to cut the slots with a mill but as some folks do not have a mill or small press I wanted to show it is easily done with a hand tool.

Cutting the axles themselves can be done using a hand drill, small press, or mill.  First  I rounded off the corners on the ends of the axles by hand to give a lead in for the cutter.   The axletrees have shoulders which prevent the cutter from going too far.  I made the portion to be rounded overly long for the time being. 

 

 

 

 

[allanyed]

The axletrees, brackets, transom and stays temporarily in place below.  The stays are made of copper rather than brass so I can blacken them in situ with liver of sulfur.  In general I prefer to use copper rod, wire, and sheet rather than brass as it is much easier to blacken and can be blackened in place without discoloring the surrounding wood.  Care does need to be taken to make sure any metal dust or particle have been cleaned away if there was some filing of the part once in place.     

 

In the photo below the stays have been "bolted" in place and blackened.  It is difficult to see but square retainers are on all the rods.  The trucks are just sitting temporarily in place in this photo.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by allanyed

[allanyed]

It is my understanding that screw threads came about around 400 BCE but bolts and nuts were not commonly used until the industrial revolution starting in the 19th century.  In the case of the various rods on a carriage, how were the retainer pieces fitted over the rods secured?  If these were not a threaded bolt and nut I am guessing one possibility is that the rod was peened over to keep the square retainer in place.   

Allan

[allanyed]

Stool bed was an easy piece to make.  Even with a mill or small table saw, it is easier to work with rectangular pieces when it comes to cutting grooves so I cut mortises and such before final shaping of items like the stool bed.   Photos show the stool bed and the carriage with bed bolt and various other bolts in place.

Allan

[allanyed]

Cap squares are done, in place, and functional.   Making a retainer wedge will be easy but finding small enough chain even at 1:24 scale is tough.  For smaller scales, something other than chain would be needed and I wonder if any of the members have tried to include them or just leave them off altogether as I have done when working on smaller scales.

Allan

Edited September 11, 2023 by allanyed

[allanyed]

I made the lynch pins from copper sheet then forced into place before blackening as the blackening can be scraped off during this somewhat rough handling.   Once in place diluted liver of sulfur is used to blacken them.

Allan

 

 

[druxey]

Try jewelers' supply houses for small chain in silver, which may easily be blackened. One example:

 

https://www.firemountaingems.com/itemdetails/h204496ch

[Roger Pellett]

Allan,

Nice work!  For those without access to a lathe, a piece of brass tubing with teeth filed into the business end will also work for your trunnions cutting tool.  To keep the drill press jaws from crushing it you can reinforce it with the next smaller telescoping size.

 

Roger

[allanyed]

13 hours ago, druxey said:

Try jewelers' supply houses

Thanks Druxey.  I did find 40 links per inch brass that our local hobby shop said they can order as well.  Thanks again!

 

12 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

a piece of brass tubing with teeth filed into the business

Thanks Roger.  The only problem that may arise is that there are only so many IDs of tubing compared to drill bit sizes to drill the hole in the end of a piece of rod.  This can be done without a lathe, but I admit using a lathe is easier.

 

Allan

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by allanyed

[allanyed]

Lynch pins installed and blackened and axletree hoops are in place.  The hoops are made from black construction paper.  At 1:12 I would give a try at using copper for the hoops, but at 1:24 I failed miserably at my attempts.   I might give it another try even at 1:24 in the future but would turn a piece of noncombustible material to the axletree diameter and then wrap a softened piece of copper (or brass) and silver solder it while on the rod.   I have no idea if this idea would work or what material to use for the rod so the silver solder would not stick to it.   

   

 

[druxey]

As you may recall, the slightest contaminant, such as skin oil, will make a silver solder joint fail. There is more concern with making a joint 'stick' than fail! Even the slightest trace of oil or grease on the mandrel for your hoop should work.

[Quimp Slattery]

40 minutes ago, druxey said:

As you may recall, the slightest contaminant, such as skin oil, will make a silver solder joint fail. There is more concern with making a joint 'stick' than fail! Even the slightest trace of oil or grease on the mandrel for your hoop should work.

 

...unless the heat caused the contaminant to flow onto the area that you wished to solder. 

 

How about ceramic tubes like these on eBay? 

[allanyed]

 Druxey,  

Lord knows I have had joints that would not hold because of contamination from fingers, so your point is well taken.  Now I will rub my finger on my nose for some oil then apply it to the mandrel before soldering.   Easy enough to give it a try the next go around in making these.

Thank you.

 

 

Jack

The problem with these ceramic tubes is that they only come in specific sizes.  With several gun carriage sizes on many ships and all the scales we use, finding the right size might not be possible for every/any case.   I did find a video just now showing turning ceramic on a lathe, so the problem of a fixed number of diameters goes away.  A relatively thick ceramic rod turned down for a quarter inch on the end to whatever diameter is needed might just work.   Worth a try down the road.

Thanks

Allan

Edited September 13, 2023 by allanyed

[Roger Pellett]

I realize that this discussion involves Silver Soldering, BUT!

Various shapes of Aluminum can be found in hardware and big box home improvement stores.  It is very easy to turn on a lathe and is easy to fabricate for jigs and fixtures and solder does not stick to it. Unfortunately it melts at 1100-1200F so it wouldn’t work for Silver Solder but it’s great for Soft Solder.  I personally find that the lead free soft solders provide adequate strength.

 

Roger

Edited September 13, 2023 by Roger Pellett

[allanyed]

 

When there is no super strength required I like to use Solder It paste as it has a melt point of 450F versus over 1200F so your idea should work well.

Thanks Roger.

 

[allanyed]

Rings and loops are in place.  

Allan

 

[allanyed]

Thanks to fellow member Ron Thibault's work in preparing   3D drawings of the Armstrong Frederick pattern, a realistic barrel was easy to have made.   Details of the George III cypher and the flash pan as well as astragal rings can be seen below.

Allan

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by allanyed

[GrandpaPhil]

Very cool!