Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Harvey Golden said:

The steering oar is definitely astern, and wouldn't be switched end-to-end when shunting (a form of tacking), as symmetrical hulled multihulls had dedicated bows and simply tacked.

Thank you, Harvey. 

 

I looked at other paintings by the same artist - Herb” Kawainui Kāne (https://www.herbkanehawaii.com/) - he has done a few others where the canoes look like they are moving at a fairly pronounced angle into the wind or at least a quartering cross wind.

Picture8.png.b6cb58e4c4abf36d6b4f91162c1d4fee.pngPicture9.png.215043b652f096a6bc437f47a9e991ce.pngPicture10.png.5927416f18b08f19d56f777b276e804b.png

 

Another site (https://www.hemakeewaa.org/hawaiiansail) has some detail on the sails and how they work in relation to the wind along with the diagram below - "The Hawaiian sail is very effective in sailing across the wind or down wind.  It can sail windward at an angle of about 75 degrees off the wind.  The round hull of the Hawaiian canoe however allows for significant lee drift. Early explores describe Hawaiians  frequently paddling their canoes while under sail, especially when trying to sail to windward. Paddling while under sail allowed the canoe to travel higher to windward and reduced the lee drift significantly.  Paddling while under sail makes the paddling much easier. It also can increase the canoe's windward ability making between 45 to 40 degrees off the wind."

 

I would need someone that actually knows how to sail to explain all that to me in landlubber's terms (degrees off wind, significant lee drift, etc???).

Picture11.png.597ddc423faf95c7be2ccac429c4762f.png

 

Edited by Glen McGuire
Posted (edited)

In a nutshell:  "degrees off wind" is the angle between your course and where the wind is coming from. No one can get to zero. Your diagram is showing the two boat types sailing as close to straight upwind as they can.  A square rigger can get to within about 65 degrees of the wind. Fore and aft rigged vessels can get closer (like the yacht in your diagram).

 

If you are shallow draft, like your canoes, and with a rounded bilge, then the hull's innate ability to resist sideways movement is limited. If you're trying to sail, say, 90 degrees off the wind (ie a "broad reach" with the wind from abeam) then the wind blows you not only along the course you want but also downwind to some degree or other. This is leeway. One can compensate by pointing a little closer to the wind and in a perfect world cancel leeway. It's like when you see a small plane on a windy day moving across the sky but not quite in the direction its nose is pointing.

Edited by Ian_Grant
Posted

I'll leave the sailing stuff to sailors, but from a practical point of view, I was wondering if you could actually connect the center of your hinges (Kūanueneu) to your platform and insert it as one piece? Or is the platform also too large to pass the neck?

It would save you the trouble of holding the hulls while trying to aim that platform straight on top of it. You could also mount stopping pins on the bottom of the platform so everythings ends up nice and straight. (I can make a drawing if it sounds like a plan or if it would make things more clear) 

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ian_Grant said:

"degrees off wind" is the angle between your course and where the wind is coming from

Thank you for the explanation, Ian.  You helped the dim lightbulb flicker on.  When I used to fly many years ago, I had to calculate the crosswind component for takeoffs and landings to ensure it fell within the limits of the aircraft.  The term we had for "degrees off wind" was the "crosswind angle".  We used it along with the wind velocity and runway heading to calculate the crosswind component.  Your second paragraph makes perfect sense now when I relate it to course headings for planes.  💡💡💡

 

 

1 hour ago, Javelin said:

I was wondering if you could actually connect the center of your hinges (Kūanueneu) to your platform and insert it as one piece? Or is the platform also too large to pass the neck?

Yes to your 2nd question, Javelin.  When I add the masts, the platform will be too tall to pass thru the neck.  In the 1st pic below, you can see that I've got 7mm from the top of the Kūanueneu to the top of the bottle opening.  I will need at least 13mm with the masts installed and hinged down.  So I will definitely have to install the platform inside the bottle. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Javelin said:

It would save you the trouble of holding the hulls while trying to aim that platform straight on top of it.

I agree, that will be a challenge.  My plan is to put the hull structure inside the bottle, align the hulls, and glue it down.  I don't think that will be too difficult.  Once secure, I'll drop the platform assembly on top.  To help with dropping the platform straight like you say, I've added a couple of alignment pieces to the bottom of the platform.  The 2nd pic below shows the bottom of the platform.  The 2 larger squares of wood on the inside are mast "stops" and line up with the mast steps on top of the platform (they will help anchor the masts in place).  The 2 smaller rectangles of wood are alignment stops that snug against the outside edge of the fore and aft Kūanueneu's when I drop the platform in place.  I think these serve the same purpose as the stopping pins you suggest.

 

20231205_141626.thumb.jpg.18a4dc86b7e92d0ca267422df9e82941.jpg

 

20231205_142607.thumb.jpg.498f4d71b2676f31268d56627defda9c.jpg

   

Edited by Glen McGuire
Posted (edited)

On to the masts, which are called kia's and look quite interesting.  The wa'a kaulua sails were triangular in shape with a straight vertical kia (mast) and a 'o pe'a (curved spar).  I made the kia in my usual way with a small bamboo rod hinged near the base and shaved down to 1.5mm above the hinge. 

20231207_121204.thumb.jpg.ece4325868d667d9a436726579dcf13b.jpg 

 

For the 'o pe'a's, I boiled a couple of bamboo rods for 20 minutes, then rubber-banded them to a couple of wood scraps that I had shaped to the proper curve.

20231205_130615.thumb.jpg.12695eb5e62c7fb42d8f88d116986e78.jpg

 

While the curved 'o pe'a's were drying I went to work on the thatched structure that rests between the pe'a's, or doghouse as @Keith Black called it.  I think it's called a halau wa'a, which translates to canoe house but I am not sure.

 

I was out on a run yesterday and saw some very thin, hairy, dead grass growing out of a crack in the pavement.  It looked perfect for small thatch like I needed.  So I grabbed a handful and carried it home.  I built a little halau wa'a out of a bamboo chopstick, chopped the grass into tiny pieces and glued it on.  As with a lot of my deck fixtures, they look better the further you are away from them.  

 

20231207_074626.thumb.jpg.f4b91ed170fa794861f57f9cfca68ffc.jpg

20231207_114545.thumb.jpg.094ff1256f34ecae5d920ad404663c4b.jpg

 

By the time I finished the halau wa'a, the 'o pe'a's (curved spars) were done drying. 

20231207_120136.thumb.jpg.b2e104ff49b425b5063e2a375f4f8ae2.jpg

 

 

Here's a pic of everything I've made so far, dry-fitted into place.

20231207_115118.thumb.jpg.83bcffdb1b6e2b63806d4f259a6b73a5.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Glen McGuire
Posted

Incredible work, Glen. 

Current Builds:  1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                             Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                             Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted

That's very impressive, Glen. She's really taking shape. I wish you the best of fortune in inserting her in the bottle without mishap.

 

(BTW, I used weeds I found growing across the road from my home in one of my own models, as 'padding' or perhaps 'underlay', for the cargo in the hold (as it had been found in the remains of a 15th century cog). Your deckhouse looks very good.

 

Steven

Posted
4 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

I wish you the best of fortune in inserting her in the bottle without mishap.

Thank you, Steven!  I'm actually not too nervous about the insertion process this time as I know my hull assembly will fit easily and I think my deck/mast/sail assembly will not be too tight either.  My concern right now is whether or not this idea I've got for the sails will work (speaking of weeds...).  More on that in my next post.  

 

On another note, curiosity finally got the best of me.  I'd been wondering for a while about your screen name and if there was a story behind it.  My initial thought was that it sounded like some kind of gangster from the roaring 20's.  So I googled and found that it's a mascot for a bug spray (Mortein)!!  And I even listened to his jingle:

 

Louie the Fly, I'm Louie the Fly, Straight from rubbish tin to you!
Spreading disease with the greatest of ease, straight from rubbish tin to you!

I'm bad and mean and mighty unclean, afraid of no one,
except the man with the can of Mortein. Hate that word, Mortein!

 

He even has his own Facebook page with 242,000 followers!!!  And apparently I was on the right track with my initial thought because I read that the producers of the jingle wanted his voice to sound gravelly, like a Chicago-land gangster.

 

So now I think you have the coolest screen name on MSW!!!

 

    

Posted (edited)

Thank you, Glen. Yes, Louie's been around since the early 60's when he was in black and white on TV (and pretty primitive). He's got a place in Australian folklore and we're actually rather fond of him because of his rebellious attitude - he's what we in Oz call a larrikin ("Larrikin is an Australian English term meaning "a mischievous young person, an uncultivated, rowdy but good hearted person", or "a person who acts with apparent disregard for social or political conventions") which fits very well with the Australian psyche.

 

But it's "rubbish tip" (i.e. garbage dump), not "rubbish tin" - a whole bigger area of rubbish to come from and much more shudder-inducing - which is what the advertisers had in mind . . .

 

Steven

Edited by Louie da fly
Posted
Posted

Glen, are you sure you haven't confused this with another site?  Just askin..... ;) 

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

Posted
Posted (edited)

Time to dive into the sails or pe'a's as they wee called.  Each pe'a is shaped like an upside down triangle with the upper section curved downward like the letter U.  According to https://www.hemakeewaa.org, "the U in the sail serves as kind of a safety valve allowing wind to escape over the top of the sail thus reducing the force that could capsize a canoe."

 

As far a construction of the pe'a, it was made from the leaves of the hala tree.  The leaves (lauhala) were cut into very narrow strips, maybe 1/4" wide, then woven together to form mats about a foot and a half square.  Finally, the mats were sewn together to create the full pe'a.  

 

So far, I've been trying to make as much of my wa'a kaulua as possible with native Hawaiian materials.  There are no hala trees around here in central Texas, but I do have a pineapple plant and a plumeria tree which I am going to try and make the pe's's from.  I took a couple of dead leaves from each because I need a brownish/yellowish color.  Obviously, they were pretty crunchy, so I need a way to make them pliable again.  Hmmmm.  Several years ago, I killed a few small rattlesnakes and a couple of copper heads at my ranch.  I preserved the skins by soaking them in a glycerin/water solution and to this day they are still soft. 

20231210_101827.thumb.jpg.b17ac67ba18288db9411719f3fb5b427.jpg

 

Would that same method work for leaves?  There are people in the googleverse that say it will, so I'm giving it a try.  The first pic shows the leaves from my pineapple plant and the second is from the plumeria.  The plumeria is a little darker than I want, but I like the prominent veins that could maybe pass as sewing seams.  We'll see how everything looks in a couple of days when they are done soaking.

20231206_082325.thumb.jpg.949b0089dcea2c04409f717ddac9a0b1.jpg     

20231210_094941.thumb.jpg.4878aa0d3fe197103da3b0bb773d0181.jpg

 

While the leaves are relaxing in their glycerin bath, I decided to get the water in the bottle.  I went with more of a turquoise color instead of the deep sea dark blue I usually use.  I also wanted it to be a little more transparent to indicate shallower water like you would find at the base of a waterfall. 

20231210_083726.thumb.jpg.bcc28bdbaa2a4704e03f418aa5d5f067.jpg

  

 

     

 

  

Edited by Glen McGuire
Posted

Glen, your preservation with glycerin is/was a technique used by model railroaders to preserve the weeds and lichen used as the flora on old model railroad scenery. those plants should last.

 

Been lurking here; you really have an intriguing subject. 👍 Of note for any sci/fi fans, the opening credits of Star Trek: Enterprise has one shot of a Polynesian vessel. They were some remarkable navigators, crossing the Pacific like they did.

Ken

Started: MS Bounty Longboat,

On Hold:  Heinkel USS Choctaw paper

Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1

Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section

 

Member Nautical Research Guild

Posted

 I like the looks of the plumeria and the midrib of the leaf is a natural for the outside sail edge. The trick is being able to attach the leaf margin to the mast but of course,  you are the magic man.

Current Builds:  1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                             Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                             Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

 I like the looks of the plumeria and the midrib of the leaf is a natural for the outside sail edge. The trick is being able to attach the leaf margin to the mast but of course,  you are the magic man.

I agree about the plumeria midrib, but the sail footprint is really small compared to the size of the leaf, so I don't know if that will work or not.  We will see in a day or two.  I want to wait till the epoxy resin is fully hardened before I take the leaves out of their bath.  I want to take them out, attach them, and get them in the bottle quickly, while they are at their most supple.

 

27 minutes ago, Canute said:

your preservation with glycerin is/was a technique used by model railroaders to preserve the weeds and lichen used as the flora on old model railroad scenery. those plants should last.

Thank you, Ken!  You have put my mind at ease.

 

I was a big Star Trek fan of the original series but never watched much of its offspring.  I youtube'd the Enterprise opening credits that you mention and saw the Polynesian vessel (see below).  Very cool!  I agree with you about their incredible navigational skills.  The more I learn about this subject, the more fascinated I become.

Screenshot2023-12-10105546.png.04a2c52968db677c76dad92760bffeb4.png

 

Edited by Glen McGuire
Posted
21 hours ago, Glen McGuire said:

You're trying to make me name names aren't you, Pat!!  🤐

Ha, would I do that? :)

 

You had me worried when I opened your latest update.  Before reading the associated text, it was a case of - Woa, what's Glen doing with snake skins :)  Thankfully only leaves/bark.  Great idea for preserving them.  Looking forward to seeing them in situ; they will really set it all off.

 

cheers

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

Posted (edited)

After funneling the epoxy resin into the bottle, it's usually time to relax for a couple of days waiting for it to dry.  Before I got to relax though, I needed to clean up the usual horrible mess I'd made with the epoxy resin.  It was then that I suddenly remembered that I needed to show water flowing thru the neck of the bottle and into the body for my illusion of the waterfall filling up the bottle with water.  I had about an ounce of leftover epoxy resin still in the pouring container which would be plenty.

 

But how to do it was the question.  I could not just pour it in because that would require tilting the bottle and would cause the main body of epoxy resin to slide up the back side of the bottle and leave residue when leveled off again.  So I decided to wait for the leftover epoxy resin to solidify, but not harden..........Cue 3 1/2 hours of Jeopardy music..........Once the epoxy resin got to what I thought was the proper thickness, I took a bamboo skewer and pasted a thin layer of epoxy resin on the bottle's neck. 

 

That was the easy part.  The hard part was getting epoxy resin affixed to the dropoff from the neck of the bottle to the main body of water and making it look like a smooth flow.  So I swirled a large blob onto the skewer and prepared to try and get it in place without making a huge mess - see below.

20231210_130835.thumb.jpg.67c2eb1e04f2fa0015bc407198f8374e.jpg     

By this time, the epoxy resin was getting pretty solid and difficult to work with.  I ended up scraping the blob against the top of the dropoff,  where to my horror, it just stood straight out like a diving board (no picture unfortunately).  My hope was that even though the epoxy resin was stiff enough to stick straight out, it wasn't stiff enough to overcome gravity.  Sure enough, after about 15 minutes, I could see it starting to droop.  After an hour, it had fallen perfectly into place!  WHEW!!

 

20231211_094325.thumb.jpg.9e1792026ad15a532ffadb2f6a82e965.jpg    

Fast forward to today and the epoxy resin was set.  I added some slight texturing of the water with Woodland Scenics Water Ripples.  I did not want to go overboard with the stuff thinking that there should not be much turbulence with a small flow of water filling the bottle.  No whitecaps either.  

20231212_184049.thumb.jpg.0d74e5809d10d2dffef1197390d6b007.jpg

 

Closeup below of the water coming in from the bottle's neck and hitting the textured water.  After the boat is in the bottle, I'll probably add a little froth to where the little waterfall hits the main body of water, but I'm thinking it will be pretty subtle.

20231212_184041.thumb.jpg.071842d06e9d46393708ad1f3eb4a149.jpg 

 

     

Edited by Glen McGuire
Posted
16 minutes ago, Glen McGuire said:

where to my horror, it just stood straight out like a diving board

 Too funny........ The water turned out great, very natural looking. 

Current Builds:  1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                             Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                             Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted

Looks great despite its best efforts to thwart you Glen.  Hopefully still enough room in the neck to get your masterpiece inserted? ;)

 

cheers

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

Posted
1 hour ago, BANYAN said:

Hopefully still enough room in the neck to get your masterpiece inserted? ;)

Funny (and almost not funny) that you should mention that, Pat.  The thought that my little river of water running thru the neck would reduce my available space for ship insertion never occurred to me until after the epoxy resin was set and I turned my attention back to the ship.  My heart blood pressure and heart rate were skyrocketing until I was able to confirm that there was still plenty of room!  If the hulls were U or V shaped instead of flat, I would have had a serious problem (and meltdown)!!

Posted (edited)

It was a cold, dreary, rainy day here in central Texas yesterday which was a good excuse to get a lot of work done.  Although I have no doubt the Canadians like @Knocklouder and @Ian_Grant and probably even @Keith Black would laugh at what I consider cold.

 

Time to pull the leaves out of their bath and make the pe'a's (sails).  I laid them all out on a paper towel to let them dry and then cut them into shape.  The fore pe'a is the larger of the two.  As I was cutting them, it became obvious that the plumeria leaves were too too fragile (the 4 darker leaves on the left in the pic below).  The pineapple leaves have harder fibers running vertically which you can kinda see.  It gives them more strength to withstand the thread loops I'll use to attach them.  Plus, I like the lighter color.

20231212_074620.thumb.jpg.a321e7a97d005a785c39f56194dfee00.jpg

 

I ran a thin coat of fabric glue along the edges where I planned to punch thru with the needle and thread.  You can see the narrow shiny strip along the 2 vertical edges.  I'm hoping this ensures I don't rip the thread out of the leaves when they get folded, spindled and mutilated during the insertion process.

20231213_110634.thumb.jpg.ef7c2a8fca0226bd785b4062386eae4f.jpg20231213_132946.thumb.jpg.9af23c7865f0c0390618b4d1df1fef7d.jpg

 

Here's what the kia (mast) assembly looks like dry-fitted into the pola (deck).

20231213_134006.thumb.jpg.d598797a10637cfdd183f229582c5286.jpg

 

And now, the whole wa'a kualua put together (dry-fit again) with the exception of the rigging.

20231213_134731.thumb.jpg.49e0a5363bb8254fb838fca0dcc400c5.jpg

And now the rigging.  The paintings of wa'a kaulua's show minimal rigging, thankfully.  The stays are called kaula iha's and I'm going with 2 on each side.  There is 1 piece of what I guess you would call running rigging, the kaula o'pe'a.  It ties to a loop attached at 2 points to the o'pe'a (upwardly curved spar).  I've got all the rigging with long threads that will extend out of the bottle.  Once the boat is inside the bottle, I will manipulate the masts and sails into their proper places, tie the threads off to the little protrusions pointing outward from the hulls, and them cut them off.  In theory anyway!!  😳

20231213_154822.thumb.jpg.84c1cfdc580054cec7e4cc923869e917.jpg    

 

 

 

  

 

 

Edited by Glen McGuire
Posted (edited)

Wow Glen, those sails came up a treat mate; very nice.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited by BANYAN

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

Posted
10 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

We haven't had any days below -7C yet.

I am unable to function at any single digit temps, much less ones with negative signs in front.  🥶🥶🥶

 

 

5 minutes ago, BANYAN said:

those sails came up a treat mate; very nice.

Thanks, Pat!  And thanks for adding another line to my budding Aussie vocabulary (came up a treat)!!

Posted

 The sails turned out incredibly realistic making the whole totally believable. Fantastic job, Mr Glen. 

Current Builds:  1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                             Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                             Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...