Herzogin Cecilie 1902 by Jim Lad - Four Masted Barque

[Jim Lad]

Thanks, mate!

 

John

[Paul Le Wol]

Hi John, nice update!  Looking forward to November. Wishing you well.

[Jim Lad]

Thank you, Paul.

 

John

[TerryPat]

Gorgeous build! Fantastic work!!

[Jim Lad]

Thank you, Terry.

 

John

 

[popeye the sailor]

hello John!

I see you have been quite busy since I last looked in!  I have never seen this ship before, but it goes back to what I've said a long time ago...........there are so many ships, obscure to history, that deserve to be modeled.  and as you've outlined in your initial post, some models even have a complex history as well    she looks absolutely stunning..........you have come so far in making her a reality!  love how you're creating the sails, not leaving them out, or finishing it as an admiralty model {that would be hiding how complex these ships were}.  are you going to stick to simplified rigging, or are you going to include the other sail rigging {bunt, clew, lifts etc.}  time sounds like an enemy..........looking at the time you started, your making great progress    you'll have her out of drydock in no time   

 

my time here has been pretty scant........the past year has been quite busy for me as well.  I hope to be back at my tables soon.  the admiral will be happy too.........I'm beginning to get the idea that I have been 'underfoot' long enough.   I hope your medical issue is progressing well and the duchess keeps you in tip top shape.  keenly following along.

[Jim Lad]

Denis, every piece of rigging is included on the model. Some of it takes a bit of research to get right as her running rigging details varied a bit from what I'm used to. Thanmfully she was a much loved ship and there are a lot of photos to help with the research.

 

John

[KeithAug]

Absolutely amazing transformation John. Very impressive.

[Jim Lad]

Thanks Keith. My treatment is now complete and I'm just struggling at the moment to get some energy back, but I hope to be back to the 'Duchess' at the end of next week.

 

John

[tmj]

On 7/5/2025 at 1:29 AM, Jim Lad said:

Another update. The 'Duchess' continues to grow sails. First two on the mizzen mast. The cro'jack is rigged, the lower topsail merely crossed at this stage, but at least she looks a little more balanced with sails on all three of the forward masts.

 

John

 

Oh my... "That's NICE!" "Beautiful!"

[Jim Lad]

An update at long last. I'm now back at the museum (albeit working shorter hours) and the 'Duchess' is again growing slowly.

 

I've now reached what is, for me, a major milestone - all 18 square yards have now been crossed! There's still a bit of work to do on the mizzen royal, but it's there and partly rigged! Once I've got that royal as far as it can go for now, I can set up the upper mizzen haliards on deck ready for later and then start on the spankers after a close study of their setup.

 

John

 

 

[Keith Black]

It's good to see you back working on the Cecilie, John. Are you still working in view of museum visitors? 

[KeithAug]

11 hours ago, Jim Lad said:

An update at long last. I'm now back at the museum (albeit working shorter hours)

John, Excellent - you have made it back to work. Do remember that when retired your time is your own.

[Paul Le Wol]

Yes indeed John, it is good to see you back in the museum! She is looking great.

[Jim Lad]

Thanks for the encouragement, folks! yes, I work in the upper gallery of the museum and spend quite a bit of time talking to interested visitors. To those who show an interest in modelmaking, I recommend a certain web site with which I am familiar! 😉

 

John

[Jim Lad]

Just a small update, but this is one of those 'one small step for a man' moments for me. The blokes who had previously worked on the model had carefully skirted around putting the name plates on the hull - it's something that I've also been skirting around as a heavy hull fixed to its base and with the masts and lots of deck detail attached is a pretty difficult item to roll over on its side to attach names. I finally bit the bullet and have attached the names to the bow on either side using a single strip wet with dilute white glue and coaxed into position. I think it's worked reasonably well. The name and port of registry on the stern isn't on yet as with a curved and sloping stern I needed to work out the amount of curvature of the name plate to make it appear straight when fitted and also work out how to actually curve it.  I think I have it right and will try it out next time I'm in at the museum - I hope.

 

John

 

[Rick310]

Well done!

Rick

[KeithAug]

On 12/8/2025 at 6:28 AM, Jim Lad said:

skirted around putting the name plates on the hull

Shouldn't have worried John - very neat.

[Tony Hunt]

Did you print the name onto the strip with a laser printer or similar?  It looks really good. Also, how did you decide on the font?  So many questions! 😀

[Jim Lad]

Tony, I simply used my ink jet printer to print onto a standard sheet of paper then cut out carefully. The font is arial black. I just searched for a font that looked like the photos of the ship's name that I had.

Need to add that I also spaced the letting out by 2 points to avoid it looking too squashed up.

 

John

[KeithAug]

John - Interesting no Plimsoll mark - on the original.

[Jim Lad]

Keith, occasional photos show her with load lines - she must have had them when she was up for survey - but none of the later photos of her in South Australia show them. I think it was easier to just paint straight over them when touching up the hull. As we're showing the ship as close as we can to what she looked like when she sailed from Port Lincoln on her last voyage, I'm leaving the load lines off (and Bureau Veritas be damned)!

John 

[Jim Lad]

Not a lot of progress on the 'Duchess' of late. The last couple of times I've been at the museum I've spent most of the day talking to interested visitors rather than working on the model - but that's a good thing - I continue to wonder at the number of kids and teens who say things like, "That's so cool" when looking at the model and asking detailed questions about the building process.

 

The mizzen topgallant and royal braces have now been run, but not rigged to the yards, so that's now the total rigging on the square sails until I get the ratlines on and can finish off the braces. I've also started getting the lead blocks on the jigger, as can be vaguely seen on the image below. Ther's still a bit of fiddling about on deck needed before I actually rig the spanker boom, as the spanker sheet is tucked in behind the steering box and gratings.

 

John

 

 

[Keith Black]

 That last photo is absolutely stunning, John. It sounds like you've become the star attraction. 

[Paul Le Wol]

Beautiful work John! Happy to hear that you are helping to spur on the young ones.

[Mark Pearse]

Hi John,

There must be a specific order of rigging the Duchess, I suppose follows what would be required for the ship herself. Your knowledge of these incredibly complex vessels is wonderful to follow, it would be good to hear more about how you learned it.

[Bedford]

John, my ex wife used to do family daycare so there were always kids in the house and one in particular saw my model of the schooner for Port Jackson and straight away commented how cool it was and "can we play with it"?

 

Thankfully it was up high and protected by glass. That particular little demon would have turned her into kindling in minutes.

[Jim Lad]

Keith, she's an impressive model. 106.2 centimeters (41.8 inches) plus the bowsprit, and most museum visitors walk right past the spot where I work, so it's no wonder that people stop to talk.

 

Paul, I love talking with the kids about model making. Some of them are really keen to have a go, so that leads to another conversation with their parents about what might be possible and what tools would be safe in little hands. The best one I had was a kid about 8 years old who just wouldn't stop asking questions. Eventually his dad said, "If I get wooden boat kit, would you like to build it with me?" The way the kid's face lit up was just brilliant. The worst one was another kid about the same age whose father said to him, "Come on, you're not interested in that stuff and there's lots to see."

 

Mark, Although the end result is the same on a small scale, the rigging order is somewhat different on a model, especially in smaller scales. The problem with a model is the lack of space to get to things, meaning that some careful planning is needed to make sure you can actually get to things as the rigging goes ahead. A case in point is that spanker sheet. the lower block is tucked away near the poop rail and the cleat it's made fast to is also down there behind everything (it must have been a bit of a bugger to adjust the spanker) and I realised that the newly made steering box gratings will have to be fitted after the spanker sheet is secured or I won't be able to get in there.

As for 'learning the ropes', as a Master Mariner I probably have a head start on most of our members even though I wasn't trained in sail. A very real interest in how a sailing ship is sailed also helped, plus many hours poring over Underhill's books and reading the books in my collection on first voyages in sail.  I had to do a bit more research for the 'Duchess' as she has a few quirks in her rigging, but that was helped by the fact that I already knew what lines would usually be where and it was pretty straightforward to understand the differences. The plethora of gigging images for this ship also helped.

 

Bedford, most of the kids at the museum just want to look and don't even have to be asked not to tough (that's mainly a problem with adults) but every now and then a wide-eyed child asks if they can play with it!  😀

 

John

[Kenchington]

John has said how he came to knowledge of the last generation of big square-riggers. For the rest of us, much information is readily available as those ships were particularly well documented -- partly because they were still in active use when historians began to get involved with nautical technology, while people involved in the business (Lloyd's underwriters, as much as Masters and owners) were aware that they were seeing the end of deepwater commercial sail, hence felt an incentive to record everything. Then, of course, handheld cameras (even movie cameras) were becoming available.

 

Equally important, beginning with Basil Lubbock, some young men (and at least one young woman) with good educations chose to experience merchant sail before it was lost -- after many generations when European gentlemen might become navy officers but most definitely _not_ merchant seamen. (The USA was a bit different, as in the case of Richard Henry Dana.) Hence, we have descriptions of the ships and life aboard them from people who could write and who saw their new world with an outsider's eyes. Alan Villiers, Eric Newby and several others contributed to that literature.

 

The Duchess was especially notable in her day, having been built as a smart cadet ship, and was consequently well recorded. Derby's "The Tall Ships Pass" has many photos taken aboard her.

 

Trevor 

[KeithAug]

9 hours ago, Jim Lad said:

Come on, you're not interested in that stuff and there's lots to see.

Moron - child will probably grow up to be an estate agent!

 

John - Exquisite - does she get a plate with your name on it - a legacy?

 

10 hours ago, Bedford said:

straight away commented how cool it was and "can we play with it"?

Steve ........Hmmm! I am dreading the day that Benji has the same thought.