pin vise and drill bits

[palmerit]

After another frustrating attempt to use the inexpensive Model Craft pin vise I had bought when I first started this hobby, I think I'm going to invest in a better one. The drill bits just keep slipping in that one.

 

Pin Vise Recommendations

 

I know the Starrett are highly recommended - I knew about Starrett well before I started on this hobby. This set has been recommended before (including recently in a related topic):

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/workshop/workbenches/vises/67748-starrett-pin-vises?item=30N2760

 

It's a pricey set. And I'm not entirely sure if I need all four sizes. Maybe I do. Part of that uncertainty has to do with the uncertainty of different drill bit options. Are the differences in the four in the Starrett set based on the size of the bit (or other tool) you need to use?

 

Any other recommendations?

 

Drill Bit Recommendations

 

I'm still a novice when it comes to the kinds of tools used in this hobby and I don't come from a woodworking or model building background.

 

I've found two types of micro drill bits. One type have the body of the bit the same width as the working end of the bit, maybe a bit thicker for especially narrow bits like .5mm. I bought some of these and realized that my Model Craft pin vise would not hold a drill bit that narrow. I assume one of the Starretts in set of four have collets that get really narrow. Another type have a thick body with something like a 3/32 shank that's attached to a narrow working end. Those work in my current pin vise but they slip.

 

One problem I've had is that just about every time I've used a really narrow drill bit (like a .5mm), I've snapped the bit - a couple times with the bit end buried irretrievably in the wood, which causes a lot of problems. I don't have shaky hands and I'm trying to be careful, but the bits just snap. I don't know if that's just something that happens or if I need to be looking for drill bits made from different materials and pay more for them - especially for narrow (like .5mm) bits.

 

Any recommendations on kinds of bits I should look for?

 

Drill Bit Sources

 

The best source I've found so far for drill bits of particular sizes (in various quantities) is Otti Frei:

https://www.ottofrei.com/products/otto-frei-swiss-twist-drills-on-3-32-shanks-50mm-to-2-30mm

 

I'm hesitant to order from Amazon - and I order lots of things from Amazon - because they're usually from an alphabet soup of third party vendors, likely of questionable quality. 

 

Other sources? Other brands? Other materials?

 

Other Uses of Pin Vises

 

In a recent related topic, @wefalck suggested that pin vises can be used to hold tools other than small drill bits. I'm curious what else these might be useful for, what kinds of small tools or files, and where to find them? If I'm going to order a new pin vise, I might order a few other tools that I can use with it/them.

 

Suggestions?

[Kenchington]

The pin vise that came with my Model Shipways combo was almost useless but I baulked at the price of the Starrett. I picked up a much cheaper one at my local hobby store and it has not let me down yet. I'm not certain but I think it is the Excel one -- $20 Canadian here and probably available for much less where you are.

 

I can't offer any advice on drill bits, though I see that Otto Frei sell them in packs of six of the same size. They must expect their customers to break bits frequently!

 

Trevor

[palmerit]

Oh yeah, I got the one from Model Shipways combo and at first just tossed it in my tool case. After being frustrated with the one I bought I tried the one that came with the MS combo kit and quickly threw that one in the trash.

[Diver]

2 minutes ago, Kenchington said:

The pin vise that came with my Model Shipways combo was almost useless but I baulked at the price of the Starrett. I picked up a much cheaper one at my local hobby store and it has not let me down yet. I'm not certain but I think it is the Excel one -- $20 Canadian here and probably available for much less where you are.

 

I can't offer any advice on drill bits, though I see that Otto Frei sell them in packs of six of the same size. They must expect their customers to break bits frequently!

 

Trevor

I purchased my pin vise from Lee Valley tools along with a set of micro drill bits.  They have worked well for me so far.  The Pin Vise also has a tube of drill bits stored in the Main body.  I think I paid around $50.00 Canadian for both.

[palmerit]

A source for drill bits I found poking around here some more is this company:

https://www.mcmaster.com/number-drill-bits/

 

But the sheer variety of option on that site has my head spinning.

[clarkt]

The best source for numbered , very small bits I've found is Pan American Tool Corp. (https://www.panamericantool.com/?srsltid=AfmBOoplf2XnA9dfRlNIRURelQxlEWf62EiS9mcYw94EGpbstN0N6A4)  

But I mostly use the carbide bits from the electronics industry, available from Amazon and others, in the Dremel flexshaft and drill press.   It's true they break easily, but they don't cost very much, work better than the ordinary bits and don't wobble when mounted in the drill press  That set of pin vises seems pretty expensive.   Rio Grande, https://www.riogrande.com/?srsltid=AfmBOopFq7WQdEg-QU2eeaqm3EfZdG7B5DlhxjtTsZD61lKD-Zv2c5Ni  has several for a lot less.     As for other tools,  a broken bit can be ground on an angle and mounted in the pin vise to make a mini chisel, great for forming the sheave on a small block.  a broken carbide bit can be used in the same way to make a reamer. 

[Billpitts]

4 hours ago, palmerit said:

Drill Bit Sources

Have you tried McMaster Carr or Grainger?  The selection is enormous as they cater to industry as well as private folks like us.

Bill

[palmerit]

I just discovered McMaster Carr. Crazy selection. I’ll check them out. 

Edited Sunday at 06:28 PM by palmerit

[AON]

I had bought my pin vises (2) and number drill bits from McMaster-Carr.

I bought two pin vices because they came with a reversible chuck (larger shaft/small shaft) so I could have one set for each.

That ended up being a waste of money as they are easily reversed.

I bought a few bits that came in multiple quantities in envelops. The smallest of which are quite delicate and snap with the slightest side pressure (flex) if you do not choke up on them with the pin vise chuck.

[Dr PR]

1. If you will be using a hand held pin vise DO NOT get carbide bits. They are very brittle and break with the slightest twist. These are for use in milling machines, drill presses and PC board fabrication machines. High speed steel bits are good for pin vises.

 

Most of the bits I have seen with thick shafts and narrow cutting ends are carbide and are designed for automatic drilling machines.

 

2. Whatever you get, be sure it will hold the smallest bits (#80, 0.0135 inch, 0.34 mm). I have two of the types with removable collets and they will not hold the tiny bits.

 

I bought a set of four pin vises with the "collet" as part of the body. The smallest closes down to virtually zero diameter and holds the smallest drill bits tightly. The handle is a simple knurled cylindrical shaft that can be chucked into a drill press. The handle is hollow, and allows long bits, wires, needles, whatever, to be held by the pin vise. I don't recall where I got them, but the set wasn't very expensive. Almost certainly made in China.

 

 

3. These things are useful for holding anything small. In addition to drill bits I have used them to hold needles, pieces of wire with hooks in the end to help with rigging, and short pieces of jeweler's saw blades. Here is a photo of the smallest pin vise holding a piece of a jeweler's saw. I needed to make a cut with a very narrow kerf.

 

 

Having multiple pin vises means you can use one to hold the thing you are working on and another to hold the tool you are using. Or you can have multiple sizes of drill bits ready to use without changing collets.

 

4. The only drawback I have found with the hollow tube handle pin vises is that they do not have a finger rest on the end of the handle - just the end of the hollow tube. This is a bit uncomfortable when using a finger to press the tool as you are turning it to drill holes. I have thought about making one - perhaps adapting the rotating finger rest from one of my other pin vises that has multiple collets. Bit this hasn't been a big problem.

Edited Monday at 06:27 AM by Dr PR

[bruce d]

2 hours ago, Dr PR said:

4. The only drawback I have found with the hollow tube handle pin vises is that they do not have a finger rest on the end of the handle - just the end of the hollow tube. This is a bit uncomfortable when using a finger to press the tool as you are turning it to drill holes. I have thought about making one - perhaps adapting the rotating finger rest from one of my other pin vises that has multiple collets. Bit this hasn't been a big problem

I agree with everything Phil says and there is an easy fix for the finger rest.

If you wrap a  rubber band around a small bolt,  M5 in my case, you can simply slide the threaded section into the open vice end and the head will form a finger rest. The rubber band has a friction grip inside the barrel of the vice to hold it in place.

One of mine has a longer bolt wrapped in electrical tape instead of the rubber band so it rotates smoothly when drilling. 

Multiple pin vices are the way to go, IMHO.  I have Starretts and others and for most jobs the cheap ones work just fine as long as the collet is gripping. 

HTH,

Bruce 

[wefalck]

When looking for tools keep in mind that model shops often have the bad habit of selling cheap stuff at elevated prices to unsuspecting fellow modellers. Most fine tools are not made for us, but are adopted from various trades, such as watchmaking, surgery, dental care, luthiers etc. In the age of Internet, global trade (my sympathy to our US American colleagues) and supply chains, there is no reason not to look for the real source of such tools. Just do a search when you discover a tool and the search engines or auction platforms usually propose a wide selection.

 

It is also a good idea to browse the (on-line) catalogues of the above mentioned trades to get an idea for what tools are available and what their price range may be (attention: medical stuff may be expensive, but often you can find 'seconds' on the Internet at lower prices that are good enough for our uses). 
 

 

I not normally use a pin-vise for drilling, there are tiny single- or double-action Archimedean drills for watchmakers that do a better job and clamp down to 0.1 mm, if you get a good one.

 

I gather there are four types of pin-vises on the market: the all-steel toolmaker ones with knurled bodies, the slender watchmaker ones with steel jaws, but often a fluted brass body, the watchmaker ones with exchangeable collets (not sure what the point is, it is better to have a set of pin-vises handy), and the biological ones that are steel, but have a fluted ebenony handle. In addition, you get the cheap modeller ones with brass jaws and/or eloxated aluminium bodies.

 

The larger toolmaker ones (e.g. Starret or Eclipse) are bored 2.5 mm, so can hold the common burrs and other tools with the same 2.4 mm shaft diameter, such as triangular scrapers etc., which could be useful for deburring and other tasks. Not sure whether there are pin-vises bored for 1/8" for the Dremel bits.

 

I posted the picture below before, but it can give you an idea of what is on the new and second-hand market:

 1 - Archimedes drill for watchmakers.
 2 - Slender modern pin-vice with hollow fluted brass body.
 3 - Slender antique pin-vice with hollow fluted brass body.
 4 - Shop-made pin-vice with walnut body and head made from an insert drill-chuck; these drill-chucks are unfit for their intended purpose as they usually do not run true.
 5 - Eclipse toolmaker's pin-vice with knurled steel body; these come in different sizes.
 6 - French-style pin-vice; these are closed with the sliding ring and have usually brass inserts in the two jaws that can be adapted to special needs;
 7 - Dito, here the jaws are replaced in hardwood for delicate parts.
 8 - Antique laboratory pin-vice with fluted wooden handle.
 9 - Modern pin-vice with fluted wooden handle; these come in different sizes and capacities.
10 - Antique toolmaker's pin-vice for very delicate work in confined spaces.
 

[No Idea]

Just my experience but I have tried different types of pin vices and found some to be lacking for my needs.  The clamping action in many is just so poor that it makes the whole job so much harder.  I settled on the Starrett and they have now given me years of trouble free work so I would recommend these.

 

As for the bits I only buy cobalt bits now - they are strong and stay sharp for ages.  They will also plow through brass and stainless steel without any problems.

[Gregory]

I have a couple of these from Amazon

 

The chuck goes from .5 to 3mm according to the specs, but I'm sure I've gone smaller than .5 , but I mostly use the 1/8 shank carbide bits.

It's got a real nice feel to it, and there is nothing in the build quality that makes me think it will not outlast me.

[Boccherini]

I purchased one of these: 

https://www.tamiya.com/english/products/74112/index.html 

2 years ago. It is the third pin vise I've owned, the best so far. Reasonably priced.

Can't comment on the claim to clamp 0.1mm bits. The smallest I'm using are 0.4mm, which the tool handles without any problems.

 

Regards,

Grant.

[Capt. Kelso]

Check EBay, Vintage Watchmakers/Machinists tools, I found a good Starrett. I have found some handy little tools in this category.