Maine three-masted schooner by Bedford - 1:54 - RADIO

[Bedford]

Thanks guys!

 

Yeah John, I just started on the pipe work for the tops'ls and have walked away from it. Just can't get the fore to sit right.

[captainbob]

Well done.  I knew you could.

 

Bob

[Bedford]

Thanks Bob.

[Bedford]

Update, at last.

 

As stated before the pipe work below deck is a pain but I have now completed all of it to the aft deck house.

That includes raising and lowering the sails, tops'ls and controlling the sails.

 

Next step is to raise, lower and control the stays'ls, this will be done from the fore deck house.

 

Here is a little clip.

 

[Omega1234]

Hi Bedford.   Very impressive and what you've achieved is a true testament to your skill and perseverance! It's almost as if there are miniature crewmen onboard.  Question - Is it your intention that the raising and lowering of the sails be done whilst underway to suit the changing wind conditions?  If so, that'd be a great and really cool functionality to have.  However, if you are actually sailing and then decide to lower the sails, the fact that the lowered sails are not actually tied to the boom as in the full sized ship, what's there to stop the sails still being caught by the wind and blowing out? 

 

Jus wondering and I hope you don't mind me asking.

 

All the best.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Omega1234

[michael mott]

Steve, that is really impressive, lowering the gaff on my maria is not as easy as it looks and to see your 3 gaffs lowered on the model is amazingplus the fact that they are also an integral part of the sheeting out of the topsl's. brilliant work.

 

Michael

[popeye the sailor]

so cool!  very nice work Steve!

[captainbob]

Looking good, Steve.  Well done.

 

Bob

[Bedford]

Hi Bedford.   Very impressive and what you've achieved is a true testament to your skill and perseverance! It's almost as if there are miniature crewmen onboard.  Question - Is it your intention that the raising and lowering of the sails be done whilst underway to suit the changing wind conditions?  If so, that'd be a great and really cool functionality to have.  However, if you are actually sailing and then decide to lower the sails, the fact that the lowered sails are not actually tied to the boom as in the full sized ship, what's there to stop the sails still being caught by the wind and blowing out? 

 

Jus wondering and I hope you don't mind me asking.

 

All the best.

Well Omega, it's like this.

The lazy jacks which haul the gaffs down are attached to the sail at several points as in the real thing, kind of like a draw string. This keeps the sail nicely contained and controlled back to a bit past half way and while the balance of the sail can spill out it can't go far.

 

So yes, I intend to at least motor out from the shore into open water before setting sails and I can choose how much sail to raise. If the wind comes up or my sailing skills let me down I can drop sails and power her home.

 

If I were to sail on a windy day I would probably tie the tops'ls and stays'ls down to better control them.

[Bedford]

Michael, you wouldn't believe the strain the servos pull against to achieve all that. When I first tried raising the gaffs by pulling the halyards at the servo end I thought it would never work but was amazed at the torque of the servos.

 

I have however encountered a small disaster. Last night I left her with tops'ls nicely pulled in but when I got up this morning I realised this could crease the sails so I switched on the radio and when I switched on the receiver the servos I have set travel limits on via the transmitter ran, searching for their limits and there was an almighty thump as the lazy jack final line from the connection of the three individual lines to the servo snapped under huge tension. 

 

I had feared this and am considering my options now. If I can find suitable switches I may switch off the servos individually and once the receiver has stabilised I will turn them on one by one, other wise I don't know how to overcome this problem.

 

Any ideas........anyone????

 

Steve

[Omega1234]

Hi Bedford

 

Many thanks for that explanation.  Makes sense now.  

 

Like you, I'm really looking forward to seeing your ship underway.  It'd be fantastic and a great achievement.  Sorry to hear about the mishap with the servos as described in your last post.  Hopefully someone may be able to suggest something.

 

All the best!

[Bedford]

I have replaced the broken master lazy jack with one of larger diameter to ensure it can't run off the spool on the servo. The original was thinner and could fit in the gap between the spool and the guide drum.

 

By very gingerly turning it on and paying close attention to what happens I learned that the tops'l winch pulls on the lazy jack when the radio is turned on. It doesn't matter if the servo is all the way to it's preset stop in that direction it will still pull about 1/2 a turn more.

 

Solution :- remember to always leave the tops'ls drawn out when turning the radio off, this way all it will do is pull the sail in a bit then return to the correct position without harming anything.

[Deperdussin1910]

Just found your Log.  Excellent RC work!  Here is a brief video of my three master...1/24 scale, 6 1/2 feet long, Chesapeake Bay Ram Schooner.  Cheers.   http://youtu.be/TOQrYBmOLF0

Edited September 30, 2014 by Deperdussin1910

[michael mott]

There is no video link

 

Michael

[Deperdussin1910]

Can you see the link now?  Can be found at www.Youtube.com  as "RC Ram Schooner model sailing"

Edited September 30, 2014 by Deperdussin1910

[michael mott]

No, there is only your text asking the question.

 

Michael

[JerryTodd]

The first link worked for me

[Bedford]

Ok boys and girls, tech talk time !

 

I have had more severe radio issues in that when I was setting up the winch servo for raising/lowering the stays'ls and I plugged it in to the receiver the whole on board system went berserk! 

 

The motors were going forward and reverse, the servos were going crazy ( the tops'l lazy jack master line broke again ) and the receiver was beeping and flashing. I asked the guys who have been following this build and know radio control what they thought and thank you all for your replies.

 

Cap n Bob mentioned voltage among other things which got me thinking and from googling speed controllers I started to form a hypothesis.

 

The power for the radio comes from a 7.2volt 2400mah battery pack via the electronic speed controller which controls the voltage to 6V for the radio. The problem is that the speed controller or ESC is designed for cars which may have two servos to run as well as the ESC so the output from the ESC to the radio just isn't putting enough power into the radio especially when I am running high torque digital servos which require constant power. The result is the same as any electrical circuit where you have too much load on the circuit, you end up with excessive voltage drop and nothing working properly.

 

The cure, which I am yet to invest in is to add 6Volt battery packs to the servos, you can get "Y" leads which are normally used to run two servos on one channel but you can run one side to a servo and the other to a 6V battery pack. The power will feed into the receiver as well as the feed from the ESC thus boosting the power available to the servos. You can add a batt pack to one or all of the servo leads but I don't think I will need to add many.

 

Feedback from Cap n Bobs old rc sailing club, although not saying this in so many words because they are not used to powering via an ESC, seems to confirm this hypothesis.

 

For now I will disconnect all servos except the one I am setting up at the time.

 

I realise that most of us who make rc sail boats won't fit auxilliary motors an therefore won't have the issues that arise from powering the system via an ESC but I thought it worth posting for posterity.

 

Bob, you might wish to forward this on to your Indy buddies for their future reference along with my thanks.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Bedford

[captainbob]

Bedford,

 

All help was selfish.  You have a beautiful boat and I want to see it sail.

 

Bob

[mtaylor]

Bedford,

 

I'm curious.  What happens if you put a switch after the speed control but before the receiver and servos?   Or switches such that the radio comes up first and then turn on the servos?  Might be cheaper for a couple of switches and a power-on checklist.   

[Bedford]

Mark, I am looking into various options but there is no point powering up the radio after the ESC as it isn't the drain, it is the limiting factor for the power to the radio and every digital servo adds to the power drain so it doesn't matter if I power them up one by one they will still over tax the system.

 

The extra battery pack idea is apparently what the fly boys do with their big 1/4 scale planes with high power servos, they hook up a battery pack for every servo and since it all connects in parallel they provide built in redundancy because each battery pack powers the entire system.

 

I don't want to go down that path for a few reasons :-

 

First, every time I touch her she puts on weight and I doubt I will be able to put more than 1.5Kg of ballast in the sailing keel.  

Second, I have already invested quite a few $ in this and doing the extra batt pack idea will add quite a few to the tally. 

 

The battery pack I have fitted will be capable of supplying more than enough power to run everything but I need to find a separate way to supply a regulated 6V to the rx.

 

I have considered ditching the current ESC which has two motor outputs and replacing it with two that have single motor outputs. This should double the power available to the rx but has the down side that the ESC's can't be guaranteed to be 100% balanced which could result in the schooner doing an imitation of the Bismark when she was beaten.

 

There is a device called a UBEC which apparently does the job of the BEC (radio power supply) in the ESC and if I get one or two of these I can use them as well as the ESC power supply to feed the rx and they are much cheaper than batt packs. 

 

Does that make sense?

[Omega1234]

Bedford,

 

All help was selfish.  You have a beautiful boat and I want to see it sail.

 

Bob

 

 

Me too!!!!

[Twister]

Bedford,

 

From your last post:

 

 

There is a device called a UBEC which apparently does the job of the BEC (radio power supply) in the ESC and if I get one or two of these I can use them as well as the ESC power supply to feed the rx and they are much cheaper than batt packs. 

 

Does that make sense?

Sounds like a good plan - a little bit of research on the large scale rc plane forums should point you in the right direction. I had a quick look at one of the online suppliers I've used in the past and think that something like this- http://www.kingslynnmodelshop.co.uk/Motors_and_Speed_Controllers-Regulators/c78_326/p5127/Castle_Creations_BEC_PRO_-_20A_Voltage_Regulator,_50V/product_info.html would be able to provide plenty of amps. My own philosophy would be along the lines of number of winches x stall current then double it to be on the safe side. Additionally, for better ways to wire up the various winches I'd recommend reading the support pages on the RMG sailwinch website - they always used to be an amazing resource for information although I've not checked recently.

 

Good luck with it,

 

Row

[Bedford]

Twister, thanks heaps!

 

The RMG sailwinch site explains it perfectly and as I hypothesised.

 

I wish I had known about these guys ages ago and they are an Aussie outfit too!

[Bedford]

We've all heard of sail training ships, well here's mine.

It's a bit back the front in so much as it isn't a tall ship but it was cheap, didn't require much setting up and I would imagine it will be a lot easier to learn to sail on than the schooner.

 

Oh, and if it gets lost at sea, not so distressing !

 

 

 

It will also teach me about ballast and keel depth etc.

[fnkershner]

I hope you wont throw something at me. But my first R/C boat was the Phantom. I thought it was a good deal. $300 and complete including stand. Well it was a pain to sail and I had to add the ballast to the bulb keel and the connect from the Keel to the hull leaked.

[captainbob]

A "1 Meter" is what I learned on and sometimes I miss it.

 

Bob

[Twister]

Without wishing to go too far off topic, if you don't get on with the 'Phantom' you could always put your scratch building skills to further use and build something like an RG65 - there's even a 'ready to sail' version which can be purchased called the 'Dragon Force' (see http://dragonforce65.com/ for further info). I've never sailed or owned either but have heard nothing but good reports. If you prefer the size of the Phantom then as Capt Bob pointed out, the 1M class really is superb with plenty of free designs to choose from.

 

In the meantime, if you use the Phantom within its limitations I'm sure you'll learn plenty - I had a quick look at the rcgroups discussion forum and rather a lot of responses were of a similar vein to Floyds' ... One gets the distinct impression that your Schooner will definitely out-perform it - it is certainly far more attractive!!

 

Best of luck with it,

 

Cheers,

 

Row

[Bedford]

Floyd, $148 AUD delivered, and if it isn't a great performer who cares, I see it as virtually a disposable training vessel.

There is a mob in Victoria that do a lot with these Chinese mid price sailers as they call them and there are all kinds of tips and mods I could do but probably won't unless I find it a lot of fun.

 

I will however take a hint from what you said and silicone the keel in etc.

 

As for scratch building such a vessel, can't see it in the foreseeable future, I am a classic sail guy. "Give me a tall ship and a star to steer her by"

 

Having said that, never say never.

[Bedford]

Well that was interesting, I just had my initiation to the joys of sailing.

 

I took the Phantom out to the local lake because it is a fairly calm day. I found a spot where I had the breeze blowing towards me for the most part so if all else failed I reasoned that she would eventually be blown ashore.

 

It didn't take long to learn how to tack her across the wind and I can lay claim to having her sail where I wanted her to, most of the time!

 

There were occasions when the wind in the sails overpowered the efforts of the rudder so I will need to learn more about that. Also there was a while when she was into a head wind and only wanted to go forward, I couldn't get her to come about for a while but eventually she did.

 

If it were the schooner I would have taken in sail and powered her around. Really glad I put auxiliary power in her!

 

I also learned that the rudder I have for the schooner may be woefully inadequate so I will be looking into making a deeper detachable blade for that.

 

I have been googling rc sailing in my area and there is no-one. I think I would really benefit from having someone experienced show me the ropes as it where. Either way, I need to learn a lot more about sailing on the Phantom before I wet the schooner.