HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class

[AON]

..... still (slowly) installing clamps.

Here is a steamed 2nd or middle layer gundeck clamping strake bow piece being put into place.

The mate (on the other side) already installed and clamped.

seems I sometimes need one or both shoes on my wooden clamps whereas at other times I do not.

I still haven't used any elastic bands on them.

 

Very warm outside today, so I was working the dining room. I expect the weather to swing over to fall very soon. When that happens it is back to the dungeon.

[druxey]

Looks very nice, Alan. Make sure that the clamp heights are spot-on to prevent future frustration!

[AON]

If you manage to get the camera at just the right distance, angled just so, and get the lighting just off the right amount... she looks fantastic!  Don't get too close though because the fantasy is ruined.

 

I double checked the heights off the plan, the distance below the gunport lower cill per the contract, the height needed for my 3D printed guns, and the wind direction. So it will definitely be off!

[Jaager]

I see that this is too late for you, but my solution to the clamp - sill construction is:

to use the red line of the deck at the side for every station be the controlling factor.

a cardboard pattern jig to locate the top of the clamp at every station

cut the gunports oversize

fix the clamp

use a jig to define the top of the sill above the clamp - at each side of the port so that the slope of the sill matches that of the clamp

use another jig to place bottom of the lintel

 

A POF to framing clamping option:

 

hardware stores have some very small threaded bolts  -  matching washers, wingnuts, hex nuts, grip nuts -  I think most will order shelf pack boxes (100) which should be less expensive than one by one

for the bolts,  a long threaded rod  - 12"-  and Dremel cutoff wheel may be less expensive and offer more length options

McMaster-Carr has quite a variety

 

a diameter smaller than the space width should be easy to find

two pieces of stick wood  with holes the diameter  of the rod 

I see this as a way to get clamping along the inside and outside face of a frame.

Now that I think about it - for my above the wale solid wall - since it will be hidden,  holes can be drilled for the rods.  It will ugly things up, but it will be hidden, so no matter.

 

A rule that is a compulsion for me is: for PVA  - the stronger the clamping pressure, the stronger the bond - up to the point of crushing the wood.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Jaager

[AON]

Thankyou Jaager.

If you install every other frame there are gaps of more than adequate size for threaded bolts.

 

Following the room and space per the contract does not allow an adequate gap... especially at the smallest of 1/4 inch gap (at 1:64 scale) between frames.

 

Being a novice I didn't appreciate why modelers left every other frame out. As a matter of fact, I've learnt to appreciate more then I likely could ever remember... which means I am doomed to repeat some things.

 

I agree with your statement regarding clamping pressure and I have been pleasantly surprised with what these simple large wooden clamps can do.

 

[Jaager]

Alan,

 

I would not use anything that small but McM-Carr has threaded rod that is #80 gauge.

17 hours ago, AON said:

Following the room and space per the contract does not allow an adequate gap... especially at the smallest of 1/4 inch gap (at 1:64 scale) between frames.

From a shipyard practical position, my money is on the smallest gap being 1", with the siding of the timber being adjusted to allow that.  I think that 1/4" would be inadequate for air circulation.

I speculate that when a ship framed in England sailed south and the hull equilibrated with tropical temp the frames would probably expand more than a 1/4" gap.

What was going on was allowing for an air gap for further seasoning of the frame timbers.  It was a race between inward migration of wood eating fungii and outward migration of the water in the wood when the tree was felled.  The minimum seasoning time of 18 months in the contracts was probably the time it took for there to be deep enough dry depth to give the timber an edge in the fungus in and water vapor out race.

 

17 hours ago, AON said:

Being a novice I didn't appreciate why modelers left every other frame out.

It is a powerful reason to use a framing that is stylized.

 

The dominant alternative is the Hahn style - which is all bends ( paired frames with each supporting the butt joins of its partner ) with every other bend being omitted. 

To my eye, this produces spaces that are too wide.

Hahn focused on the era of the American Revolution - during which time the RN seemed to feature spaces that were ~1".   More often than not an actual bend had a 1" space between partners - it was actually a three layer unit with the middle unit being a rectangular chock at every location where there was a thru bolt joining the pair.  It was small enough to allow  air circulation around it.

What I think that Hahn actually did was to omit the singleton single filling frames. 

 

I think that the late 17thC. Navy Board framing is particularly attractive.  The negative for it is the loss to waste in framing stock.  The floors are longer than an actual floor would be.  Each end turns up.  The F1 that overlaps it is much longer and describes a significant arc.  What this means is that there are two sets of very long timbers with significant curvature.  Close packing on framing stock is almost impossible.  The old guys had the advantage of having sufficient old growth timber - which they probably used up - and a government subsidy to pay for it.

 

Navall timber framing style splits the difference.   It looks like Navy Board from a distance and has timbers that are short enough to allow close packing on framing stock.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Jaager

[AON]

Good morning Jaager

 

Room and Space is 2'-8 1/2"

Floor Timbers from 3 to  C are 16"

This leaves 1/4" (0.004") spaces

 

Yes it increases as you move away from the DF to 1-3/4" spaces (0.027") and 2-3/4" (0.043") spaces

 

No. 0-80 UNF thread has a major diameter of 0.06"

Edited September 6, 2023 by AON
added major diameter of 0-80 thread

[No Idea]

Hi Alan - Great job mate. Although I only have one clamp on my ship, I later found that one side was 1mm higher than the other in places. So I marked out the correct height and used a Veritas shoulder plane to correct it. It made easy work of the job and saved many later corrections. 

[AON]

Thank you "No Idea"... I usually feel as if I've no idea myself.

I fully expect things to be a bit wonky. As the deck cross beams should fit into pockets in the clamp strakes (to keep them from rolling over?) I am thinking I could make adjustments with the depth of the pockets or alternately not do pockets but rather notch the end of the deck beam to sit properly (height wise) on the clamp strake. 

The will be a considerable amount of dry fitting involved to see this through properly. I may need a bigger scrap box.

Eventually the top sides will be sanded.

[No Idea]

I also thought the same as you - however when it came down to it I found it easier to correct the clamp. If both sides of the clamp are the correct height then you will get less roll on the beams throughout the length of the ship. Your idea can be done but you will end up doing a whole lot more measuring in the end. The clamps will look a lot more uniform too if you make them the same. We both had the same issue and same solutions to consider. 

[druxey]

Beams were 'let down' into the clamps not to stop rolling(!), but to help lock them in place. If your clamps are at the correct height on both sides and you have the beam tops and bottoms beveled to the deck sheer, you need not let them down in a model unless you want the extra work!

[Jaager]

My beams will be decked.   The area where the beam sits on the clamp will be hidden.  No way am I going to notch the clamp or the end of the beam.

I intend to forgo knees.  Certainly no lodging knees - no point -  however - the gap between each beam is a neato location for a chock that is as wide as the clamp and high enough to just avoid interfering with the deck planking.   It should lock the beam and be yet another location of tension in the hull as it equilibrates with Temp and humidity changes.

[AON]

I had a busy September; getting things ready for fall and winter, and my son's wedding.

 

I reworked the one carving (of the two) I had done for my kayak model for scale after having attended the NRG modelling realistic water workshop.

I think this link will take you there to see the before and after of it: 

 

I have installed all the deck clamps I care to, including the orlop deck, and am presently turning my lower mizzen mast. As it is not a made mast it will be a bit easier.

The shot below includes the "steady" Druxey asked about quite some time ago. I did a rough major diameter turn. Marked off the upper and lower quarters and presently have the top tapered. Going to work on the lower half Tuesday. Expecting company tomorrow (Canadian Thanksgiving Day).

 

Once I have this and the lower foremast made I will install the three mast steps and then the deck beams.

 

[druxey]

Interesting form of steady, Alan. How often do you have to move it along?

[AON]

In this instance  for the length and diameter of the part, three times.

[Wintergreen]

15 hours ago, druxey said:

Interesting form of steady

It does look steady though 🙂 

Ah, masts, that's in the distant future for me, but it is looking good Alan.
I also liked the "after" water on your carving. Big improvement. 

 

Keep it up!

[AON]

Thanks.

The steady is from Lee Valley Tools.

It is quite solid with three wheels (one below and two above) and took a couple tries to figure out it was a simple scissors adjustment.

Now moving it about and resetting it is quick and easy.

 

[AON]

I started my second lower mast, intending it to be the mizzen but my steady only goes down to 1/2" diameter so I turned the foremast instead.

I may have mentioned it is a made mast and rather then go to all the trouble I did with the lower made main mast, I decided to simplify this one.

The centre is one piece instead of two.

The front fish is an add on reaching down to almost the foot as it should for the time period.

The side cheeks are added pieces as are the bibs.

I made the mast cap and talked myself out of simplifying the angled square mast head tenon that fits into the cap.

I thought of making it a straight square piece as no one will see it but me... but then I cheated on everything else.

So in the first photo below you see my completed lower made main mast in the back ground.

The lower foremast is in the fore ground with the front fish and side cheeks added. I hadn't removed the square stock extensions at the foot and head yet.

The stock for the bibs, two pieces rubber cemented together, has the card template on it, ready to mark off and cut two at once.

The next photo below shows the mast cap and the angled square mast head tenon that fits into it. The bibs are attached and upper woolding hoops have been installed.

Later this week I will install the lower woolding hoops. This were made from Costello wood shavings as was done on the main mast.

That is all for now.

[druxey]

Coming along nicely, Alan!

[AON]

This photo is from early yesterday with woolding hoops and metal hoops installed.

All bolts have since been installed in the mast and the trees are assembled and installed.

Today I finish installing the bolts and leather gasket on the mast cap.

Then I move on to the Mizzen lower mast.

[Thukydides]

That is looking really good. You are making great progress.

[AON]

Started my third lower mizzen mast yesterday after having scrapped the first two.

They will be used for something later... possibly a yard?

I don't know why this mast is giving me trouble.

As the diameter of this one is too small for my lathe support I have shaped it following David Antscherl's description in Volume IV pages 15-18 of The Fully Framed Model.

Getting the initial tapered shape wasn't where I screwed up. It was the flat for the cheeks. I managed to get them correct yesterday.

Going to work on the cheeks and trees this afternoon.

I have conflicting information on this lower mast with regards to having or not having a front fish. Only one reference wants it to have the front fish.

For it's size it is a made mast but without a spindle, and it will have no front fish. Once again I simplified this one by shaping one 3/8" thick square piece, knocking the four corners off and sanding round and slightly tapered.

Due to the size I think I will simplify the cap tenon by offsetting a straight square.

A photo will be posted when done.

[Wintergreen]

Three times a charm?

Regarding research I have absolutely nothing I can add to that and will just continue to follow with interest.

Keep it up!

[AON]

All three lower masts are assembled less their woolding ropes.

I don't know why but the mizzen was a beast to complete.

They are presently stored in their stand in a box safely out of my shop.

I decided to try to make a ship's wheel. Three attempts so far. All failed, but I learnt quite a bit.

Refined my setup.

I have a sliding top in a fixed base. My template is rubber cement glued to a thicker card that is rubber cemented to a rotating table (block of wood on a metal pin).

I bevelled all the under edges of the rotating top and waxed the moving bits.

The wood was PVA glued to the template.

The rotating top was centred under the cutter and all was clamped in position.

The sliding top was moved so the cutter was located properly, then lowered to touch, the top was rotated slowly and the cutter was lowered to remove a thin slice, then repeated.

This worked well the last time. It was the wheel spokes the did me in this time. I didn't like them at all.

I am rethinking that step.

Edited December 13, 2023 by AON

[AON]

Made and fitted the lowest breasthook to the stempost/bow. Started with fitting a cardboard template. Traced that onto my blank and cut it on the scroll saw. Fitted again then sanded the bevel. Dry fitted in photo below.

[AON]

Chucked out my second set of ship's wheels.

Due to my reduced scale of 1:64 the thickness would be 0.06". After my first attempt I decided this was a bit too thin for my talents. I increased it to 0.09".

My spokes are 0.03" diameter. I tried to turn and shape these chucked into my Dremel and using files but it is just too tiny for me.

I decided to follow the KISS principal and used bamboo sized through a draw plate.

I built a rotary device so I could drill the holes to slide the spokes through the outer ring and into the inner/central hub. The tiny drill bit went a wee bit askew and the spokes did not pass through to the hub evenly spaced on the inside. Looked great on the outside. I had made my spokes a little longer than required.

I mounted my rotary device on my sander and sanded the spokes down to the correct extension length outboard of the outer ring... spinning it from spoke to spoke.

I was gluing the rope barrel to the second wheel when the outer ring glued joint broke at one spot. Tried to fix this and dropped it. Broke into a few more parts.

I decided this was a sign to toss it and do it again.

Sanded a new bunch of wedges to 0.08" instead of 0.09. A tiny change but a wee bit closer to 0.06".

Lets see if the third time is the charm with everything else I learnt.

 

[Chuck]

That is looking wonderful.

[AON]

Also started the pedestals for the wheel assembly. See how she looks and may toss it when done and try again.

The more you do the better you hope to get at it.

[scrubbyj427]

Very nice work Alan, your hull looks stunning.

 

JJ

[Thukydides]

That ships wheel looks really good.