HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class

[Kris Avonts]

Hi Gary,

 

I went to a local printing shop and asked if they could do binding with metal rings.

I was lucky they could do that. It requires some special tool that can insert the perforated sheets in this metal ring.

I prefer this binding because you can open the document at any page and it will lay flat on the table.

 

I hope you can find a shop offering the same binding system.

 

best regards,

   Kris

[garyshipwright]

Hi Kris and thank you. I did find a place, the office depot does this accept they use plastic rings instead of metal. She also put a clear plastic sheet on the front cover and a blue one on the back cover. Came out real nice and now resides in my library. Was very happy how it came out that's for sure. Once again thank you very much for putting this on the site. Gary

Edited October 7, 2022 by garyshipwright

[AON]

got my last frame installed yesterday and the chocks (spacers) today.

Will start sanding Monday or Tuesday and cut in the doorways.

 

[albert]

Great beautiful work AON.

[AON]

Got most of the sanding done today.  Decided to mark off the top timbers and cut those back and mark off and install the gallery side doors to the officers toilets (seats of ease) and get those done (install the cills) before I complete the sanding.

 

While marking the timbers for the doorways I discovered I had one short adjacent timber located improperly... it needed to be the next one over.  I suppose I should have triple checked.  So I need to remove that pair (port and starboard or larboard if we're being correct for the period) and reinstall longer timbers before I cut any doorways.

 

I will post a photo when I'm done.

[AON]

short frame removed

new long frame installed

doorways cut in

next update will be installing the cills

[AON]

Finally have the doorway cills installed.  What a pain in the butt that was!

Not very clean looking.... but my best effort.

Now I am trying to imagine how to make the beams that go across the stern (side to side) as they curve outwards (aft) and have a curve upwards (rise in the deck) and are notched.  The notches are for the vertical stern beams that are sloped aftwards making the notches sloped.

Edited October 30, 2022 by AON

[druxey]

Your pics are not appearing, Alan, other than tiny thumbnails!

[AON]

Hmmm.... I can see them.

Is anyone else not seeing them?

[bruce d]

I cannot see them.

[AON]

reloaded.  Hope that works.

[garyshipwright]

Hi Allan. You must be talking about the transom and the counter timber's David has a good article in vol 2 of his TFFM book, page 9/11. EdT also has a good article in his book of the Naiad Frigate vol two chapter 20.  When I built Montague/Alfred I followed John Franklin articles in Model Shipwright Part 2 page 29. Just a ideal on how to get the curve aft and the curve up, first make the curve up on the right size piece of wood, thickness wise and then cut out the curve aft. I added some photo's that might help you. Gary

Edited October 30, 2022 by garyshipwright

[AON]

Yup, I've been studying your build and made a cardboard template yesterday afternoon!

[druxey]

Gary is right: cut the round up first, then the round aft. You can't do both at the same time!

[AON]

Quarterdeck beam cut, shaped and dry fitted.

 

I will work on the roundhouse beam tomorrow(?).

 

Once I have all the horizontal beams made and dry fitted I will work on the vertical beams.

 

At the point I will cut the notches for them.

[AON]

I made the Roundhouse Transom beam yesterday and decided to redo the both of them as the second attempt should be better now that I'd learnt something.  Below is the plan showing the transom beams.  The Roundhouse (or Poop) Deck transom beam is indicated above and the Quarter Deck Transom beam is indicated below.  The Round House (or Poop) Deck Transom beam is larger than the deck beams and is located so the deck planks fit in a notch below it.

 

I began with a block of wood and traced the Round House 11" deck rise using the cardboard template I had made.  Measured the height, thickness and aft rounding of the beam off the plan, multiplied by 48 then divided by 64 to get my build sizes.  You can see it is double the thickness of the deck beam in the plan below it.

The rise was cut out on the scroll saw and then sanded on the oscillating drum sander and finished by hand sanding

The rounded back shape was drawn on the blank, cut and sanded.

The deck planks are 2-1/2" thick per the contract, so I measured the distance the planks slide into it and cut the notch with my micro chisels, scraped the step out with a square mini scraper and passed some sand paper over it

The aft face was bevelled to 8° to match the stern timbers by tilting the table on my disk sander and running the part over it.

The forward face upper corner was rounded off with sand paper and all corners were softened similarly.

The beam was longer than necessary.  I made a length cutoff template with two pieces of cardboard held to overlap each other while running against the inside edge of the frames and taped them together.  The beam was cut off a wee bit longer and sanded to just fit with minimum tension created by the frames springing back on it.

 

Then I followed a similar process for the simpler Quarter Deck Transom beam.  It sits below the 3" thick deck planks.  Both the Roundhouse and Quarter Deck Transom pieces will need to be notched to receive the various vertical stern timbers.  I am thinking I will rubber cement the transom pieces in place and then mark off the transom timbers.  I have to check for the umpteenth time that I have my deck heights located properly first.

[druxey]

Coming along nicely, Alan. When marking out the scores for the counter timbers, make sure that they are spaced equidistantly on both transoms. This will give the correct angles as seen from aft, and the lights will be uniform in size as well.

[AON]

There are three transom beams in the upper half, two mentioned above for the Roundhouse and Quarter Decks, and a third at about the height of the top of the rudder.  I managed to get these three temporarily installed but had to use PVA as the rubber cement would not hold up to what I did next.

I tried marking the positions for the lights (windows) but was having trouble envisioning it all.

To make it clear for me I tied some black waxed upholstery twine on the upper beam with a clove hitch and then to the wing transom with a simple bend as the wax seems to grip and hold it.  They were equally spaced at the top beam and then again at the lower beam (needs some minor adjustments again) and now I can see it developing. Once I have it in a final position I can mark these on the beams with a pencil and then pop off the beams to cut the notches in them.  Before I do that I think I will make a few cardboard templates for some of the pieces.

 

It is hard to see the fanning of the strings in the photo but the upper (1st or Roundhouse Deck Transom) beam they are spaced at about 1/2" and the lower (3rd) beam about 5/8".

Edited November 4, 2022 by AON

[druxey]

I wonder if it's the photos, or has the upper stern spread a bit? Do check the athwartship distances across the transoms and compare to the plans. I've found that there is a tendency for the framing to open up a bit over time if not constrained by cross-spalls.

[AON]

I made one cardboard piecemeal template for one set of timbers (photo below)

Then I made the timber set, two sheets of wood stuck together with rubber cement so you cut once to get two matching sets.  You apply the rubber cement to both sheets, let it dry then press them together to hold.  After cutting, cleaning the cement residue with a crepe eraser, sanding and test fitting as best possible without notches, the foot of the cut timbers were bevelled at about a 5° angle (photo below).

Interesting observation Druxey.  You see something but it is not what you think.  In reality the side counter timber tops are in the correct location.  The timbers are supposed to be a straight line tilting outwards and down to what I will call the knuckle which rounds outwards (see posting #1447). In my clumsy, inattentive, and inexperienced effort of shaping these in situ the straight portion actually rounds inwards (see posting #1458).  I realized this a few days ago when I had first attempted to layout the inner counter timbers and could not visualize what was wrong.  The black strings made it pop for me.  I was going to tear it all out and start over but decided to continue and gain more experience and will decide after I 'get her done' as they say.  I imagine if torn out it will set me back a couple months.  The second time is always quicker and normally better.  I could possibly do a better job with the door cills too.  On the other hand, everything is eventually possibly covered and might not be seen.  I'll be chewing on this for a bit yet.

Edited November 5, 2022 by AON

[garyshipwright]

Alan just a queston good sir. Why not remove the transom you have fitted and fit the counter timber's first then install the transom to fit them. I made all of my stern timber's first and then  fitted the transom. Take the stern timbers in shape and using rubber cement or Pva which ever you choose to glue them all to each other with thin pieces of balsa wood in between the pieces and then sand all of them down at one time. Mark them out with numbers from right to left and  reinstall them in order. I found this so much easier fitting the stern timbers first then the transom.  there is a whole lot more stern timbers then transom that's for sure. Hope this help's you. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by garyshipwright

[flyer]

Hi Alan

You are on a most interesting journey - thanks for taking us along. Watching you struggle with the correct form of those stern timbers lets me appreciate how complicated the work of those shipwrights really was. I guess they had to try, correct, try again and correct again their timbers as well. But in scale 1/1 that was some heavy load to shift each time. On the other hand they could  make corrections with the timber in place - where you have not enough room to work.

It's a pleasure to watch your Bellerophon taking form.

Peter

[AON]

Gary

You ask why?  I ask why not?

Living up to my motto I suppose:  "only dead fish go with the flow!"

The wing transom and deck transoms are two different radii per the plan.

The horizontal distance from the foot of each counter timber (vertical beam) to the seat transom (the one below the quarter deck transom) are different from each other on the one (half) side of the ship so the lower arcs of each are different to accommodate the change.  At least that is what I deduced from it all.  If I sand them all together that difference wouldn't be met...  or I am overthinking it all.

I'll make templates to fit to my transoms, make my counter timbers, then taper them.  Then remark my transoms to locate the tapered counters.

Then I will remove my transoms to notch them to fit the tapered counters.

In my mind it seems perfectly logical and simple but as this is my very first attempt it could be a nightmare or car crash!

Stay tuned.

 

[druxey]

We await with bated breath....

[Treebeard]

Hi all, I really like learning things from AON, Gary and Mark.  What a neat discussion.

Quick question (for Gary).  What book are those images you posted showing the framining?

Thanks!

Guy

[garyshipwright]

Hi Guy. They are Model Shipwright issues 41, 42 and 48, by John Franklin.

[AON]

five counter timbers made and tapered.

roundhouse transom beam marked off.

all three transom beams removed now.

 

eye needle tomorrow (ouch) morning so I'll be staying out of the dust for the rest of today and until after the weekend.

 

when I get back at her I'll notch the roundhouse transom beam for the five counter timbers and assemble these.

Then I'll mark and cut the other two transom beams and install them

then I will build in all the other timbers and beams.

Edited November 8, 2022 by AON

[AON]

Nothing done on my build the last couple weeks.

Recovery from another needle in my eye, 47th wedding anniversary, 69th birthday.

 

But I was back at her today.

Dry fitted the timbers to the roundhouse transom beam.

My timbers were made taller on purpose so they could be trimmed after fitted.

Learnt quite a bit so it was all worth the effort and delaying the inevitable.... then tore it all off.

The next time will be better.

 

[TBlack]

10 minutes ago, AON said:

Learnt quite a bit so it was all worth the effort and delaying the inevitable.... then tore it all off.

 

Oh darnnit! Is perfection the enemy of the good?

[druxey]

Ouch! But if you weren't happy with it....